Block-Sized Development on the Market in Outer ParksideOctober 27, 2017
While still under construction, the 117,000-square-foot development at 2800 Sloat Boulevard, which includes 56 condos over 23,000 square feet of commercial space, an open-air market and a basement garage for 112 cars is now being marketed as a bulk sale with a $77.888 million asking price.
First approved for development back in late 2008, the block-sized project was granted a three-year extension to start construction back in 2012, and having flirted with bankruptcy and foreclosure along the way, the ground was finally broken – and the former Robert’s Beach Motel, Aqua Surf Shop, and John’s Ocean Beach Café buildings on the site razed – in late 2015.
Comments from Plugged-In Readers
Ah! Nothing like an open air market in the coldest, foggiest part of the city. I miss John’s.
At this price the buyer will be paying 1,392,00 or so for each unit. The project looks 80% complete so that figure will go a little bit higher for the completed units. This is not a very desirable area and, weather-wise – well there is always global warming.
I doubt that the seller gets their asking price – at 77.8 million this is not a good deal…and the Sunset is generally an “oppressive” neighbor hood in terms of the grid streets
At this price the buyer will be paying 1,392,00 or so for each unit…
Only if you value 23,000 square feet of commercial space at zero, which we wouldn’t.
True, but this is not exactly the most desirable area for retail space – perhaps it will be leased to lawyers or some such. Taraval is not that far away and it is replete with empty storefronts.
The link mentioned that the owed money was paid in full a few years back when this was in foreclosure. Is the problem a subsequent construction loan(s) that the builder defaulted on?
Thanks for insulting me and my neighborhood with your ignorgant statements Dave. I live in that neighborhood and Taraval is not “replete” with empty store fronts. The commercial corridor of Taraval does not really begin until 32nd Avenue.
I’ve been watching this project for the past five years or so. The main issue will be the quality as it is so close to the ocean and the corrosive sea air. There was another condo project on the corner a block away that had the exterior redone due to the salt air.
As you say, the real commercial area is 18 blocks from this site and as for walking there it might as well be on Mars with Sunset Blvd in between. The last time I was down the “real” part of Taraval there were street level storefronts that were literally boarded up, and I just checked Google Street View and they’re still that way.
It’s probably the jankiest retail area in the city. You don’t have to be defensive about it. One of the problems with SF and the Bay Area generally is the reflexive defense of things that aren’t actually worth defending. The best thing that could happen to the outer Sunset is for every single building to be replaced with something much larger and much more attractive. Not all at the same time, of course.
Exactly. The area I do business in on Taraval are the blocks just up from Sunset and there are many empty storefronts. Agree about the defensiveness – I sort of get it as I was once one of the defenders of things that should not be defended about SF. Being born and bred here.
The Sunset along the Great Highway is one of the least attractive ocean fronts of any city. Visitors I take there usually note that.
It’s a dream, but the outer Sunset could be transformed by tearing it all out as you say. Taking the blocks and putting in 5/6 story condo/townhouse buildings toward the center of the blocks and leave a good portion of the block open space. Maybe change the grid pattern at points. Beyond that, several 25 story condo towers sprinkled in among the blocks with most of those blocks being left open and verdant with the towers being narrow. That would be a great project for a second year architectural class. One could actually increase the population and increase the open space at the same time.
I like the part where they lament salt air corroding condos up on the hill but call for more condos to be corroded closer to the salt water in the Sunset proper.
I lived near here on Vicente many years ago. It is a great area, close to the zoo, close to the beach, close to 1/280 access, lots of outdoor stuff to do nearby, close to a LRV line (even though it takes an hour to get downtown), not many bums or the filth of the inner city. A great neighborhood, you are ignorant.
These guys are on crack if they think they will get anywhere near that price. Even factoring in the commercial space. The units appear to have no finishes, no windows, siding, etc. selling price is closer to half of $77.8 mil. At best.
SFHs near here sell for 800K – 900K. Given that and the forlorn location (the photo nicely catches that), I’d guess 1.1 million on average for the units at selling. Depending on the ROI the buyer is looking for (the project could be completed in a brief period and looked upon as a flip) my guess is it sells in the low 50 millions. I was involved in one of these in Portland and the builder had to take a steep, steep discount to his initial asking price.
My hood. My response is thus: SFHs are going for a million in these parts of the avenues. Add a couple hundred thousand on top of that in the 20s/30s closer in. Many of these homes haven’t been touched since they were built in the 40s, but people will pay whatever it takes to own a home. As for “forlorn” you might as well say the entire area west of 19th Ave is forlorn because it shares the same climate, canopy (or lack thereof) and lots of cement. However, it’s a vibrant area in spite of all the grayness.
True generally about the area west of 19th but …. not true of the area west of 19th and south of Sloat. The feel there, despite the gray summers, is completely different. Lots less cement, greenery, some detached homes. Also the sliver north of Sloat south of the Grove. Very nice.
So they ask for a higher price and if there aren’t any takers, the price goes down.
Isn’t that the sensible thing to do?
Listing it way over its value is silly and desperate. Doesn’t help them get taken seriously nor get them the best price imo.
It’s fine to list above the expected price but this is way too much so. It might actually slow things down as it sits for months with no sale, price is lowered some, sits for more time with no sale and on and on. Especially so at time when new condo units are not seeing much appreciation if any. The risk is prices could fall more if the seller plays this game for too long. Further lowering what buyers will pay.
Or maybe a buyer will step in and buy at a higher price.
It wouldn’t be as ridiculous a price if it wasn’t so unfinished and possibly poorly built with subgrade materials. If you are filing bankruptcy while in the process of building my “building sense” says you’re probably going to skimp on materials. Whoever buys it will want to rectify that or spend more money later when things fall apart prematurely.mA SFH that has no neighbors upstairs or downstairs and a garage and driveway of your own (made of better materials probably then current particle board and vinyl) should price out a lot higher than a condo in this building.
Thought the project was going well since I heard that Sloat Garden Center had been also optioned for condos as well. Does this mean the Garden Center is safe now?
I live in the neighborhood and ironically was trapped between wanting this to get built and do well yet not so well that Sloat closed. Might still get what I want! But I wouldn’t want an unfinished hulk there.
Personally, I think it’s a cute block to live, with oceanfront, zoo, a cafe, ample parking, and public transit, a sleepy, “out there” outpost of town, and I always thought the retail area was underdeveloped. Short of the cafe, there wasn’t much that drew my wallet dollars, even though we visit the beach and zoo plenty. Maybe a ramen place? Might be a good match for such a chilly area.
Actually the commercial area on Taraval between 45th – 47th Avenues is growing rapidly with new stores, restaurants, bakeries, etc. The location of this project is ideal for techies who work on the Peninsula and Silicon Valley with it’s proximity to #280. It’s also a block form the Taraval streetcar to go downtown.
People have missed John’s diner and the area would likely love a natural foods grocery like the one on Noriega. Any family restaurants right across from the zoo would do well. With the housing problems in SF, I have a feeling these will sell. I have wondered why it was taking so long to complete the project so this explains it.
This project was way too big and ugly to start with, not surprised to see it floundering and failing now. And while the first story is steel and concrete, the upper wood framed floors sat exposed through literally every big rain storm last winter. This is a dog and anyone who pays more than $25 mil. deserves the headache they’re acquiring.
That said, the biggest culprit in this entire mess is the City, which approved – and is continuing to entertain – the wallificiation of outer Sloat Ave. What should be the oceanfront entrance to the southern border of the City is instead going to be a wall of ugly communist state stye 4-story condos built cheaply and rotting in the salty fog air.
This building is in line with City officials planning for increased density throughout the City. Too bad they are also planning to close the Great Highway from Skyline to Sloat and eventually making the Great Highway one lane in each direction. This will turn the area into a dead end corner of town. Then when they remove the rock revetments that have held back the ocean, rising seas will flood the Lower Great, 48th, and 47th Avenues.
What now? Great Highway won’t be flooded even by a 10-foot sea level rise. How much are you expecting.
The building looks a lot more square and ordinary than the old renders.
I live in the neighborhood and would make the following points:
1. The weather is better than you think.
2. The empty storefronts on Taraval next to the beach are disappearing one by one. In the last year, 2 cafes, a (very nice) bar and a record store have opened. Two restaurants are under development, one by Outerlands and one by the the owners of the Riptide.
3. More and more young people and young families have been moving in. Retail at this location, particularly grocery and restaurants, would do very well.
I live in the neighborhood too and would make the following points:
1. Weather is cold and foggy almost the entire summer.
2. Empty storefronts remain, including those that are fake storefronts, like the one on 28th/Taraval next to the hardware store which has been “empty” for the 10+ years I’ve been living in the neighborhood. Another one further up near 22nd. Outerlands is on Judah, not Taraval, BTW. Different neighborhood.
3. Would like to know how you collected your demographics to support your claim that more young people are moving in given the median price is a million dollars and rents are outrageous. The college students who lived on my block have been displaced because of the high rents. Retail will only do as well as they can afford to set up shop. The area has maxed out on mediocre Chinese food so it will be interesting to see what kinds of businesses move in based on the cost to rent.
Having lived in the inner sunset (19th & Irving) for the last 8 years, we definitely needed a change of scenery. Parking/traffic was a constant nightmare, it sounded like a freeway outside of our house, always a group of homeless ppl smoking/drinking outside of Starbucks & crowding the sidewalks, our parked cars have been hit 3-4 times in the middle of the night… as much as we loved the proximity to lots of food, bars and especially GG Park it was getting too crazy for us to live in the middle of the action. After much consideration, we’ve recently just signed a new lease for an apt off Taraval by the beach. The main reasons for choosing the neighborhood included the new developments such as the coffee shops and new cocktail bar and future developments in the works. I think it is true, i’ve read that Outerlands will be opening a new concept where Great Highway Market used to be and Riptide will be opening a restaurant in the corner unit, adjacent to them. We were impressed that even the sidewalks have been updated with “parklettes” that include seating and landscaped with cute succulents/shrubs. Overall the neighborhood seems like it is on the verge of a resurgence and we’re excited to be a part of it. As for the weather, we don’t expect it to be drastically different than the rest of the city – where we know summer is generally gloomy, but we can experience an unexpected hot spell at any time of the year.
With that said, I think the new condo/retail on Sloat is another wonderful development for the area. I’m gonna miss being close to Andronico’s but glad to hear there’s a plan for a new market. I can’t imagine the neighborhood could ever be as bustling as the 19th & Irving area but that would be the draw for us. It has everything us young ppl would want without the madness and I have a feeling it will keep getting better. If we want to shake things up, the Marina, Polk Street or Downtown is an Uber away. on top of that, rent in this area is the most reasonable we have found for SF, however I’m sure that will inevitably change soon with the neighborhood becoming more attractive. Anyway, really looking forward to seeing what else is in store for “the edge of the western world” as I’ve seen it referenced as 🙂
Do you really live in the neighborhood? I would say the weather is good 30% of the time, manageable 20% of the time and foggy 50%. Surprised by your comment regarding Outerlands since you “live in the area”..they are in fact opening a second location on Taraval and 46th, read the previous post, don’t just skim. A lot of the boarded up storefronts between 45-47th is from the fire a couple years back. Andytown opened another location on 46th and Taraval, and currently adding a cool back patio to chill. White Cap is a cool new posh cocktail bar opened until 2am. There’s a new pan Asian cafe/surf shop called Avenues. Check out this link, better yet stop by next time the weather is decent.
In regards to demographics you should checkout city-data the median age for the area is around 42, in comparison a millennial hotbed neighborhood like Hayes Valley has a median age of 38, not too far off. And when we say young people we are not talking about 18-21 year old college students. We are referrinf to Late 20s-30s. These people are making pretty good money and can afford million dollar homes. Who do you think is responsible for the tech boom? Not baby boomers. It’s the millennials. Trust me I am one.
Yeah, dude. I really do live there. Well over a decade dealing with cold and fog nearly the ENTIRE SUMMER. But, since you apparently have an “in” historical Weather Channel folks with your detailed breakdown of the summer climate, I’m relieved to read that 1/5 days is “manageable.” Whew!
And thank you for your definition of “young people.” See, I’m 51. Gen X. I apologize I didn’t provide a clear enough demographic break out for you in my original post, but I believe my reference to college students was a subtle hint as to a general range of “young.” Last I checked, they cannot afford million dollar homes. But, once again you came to my rescue and defined this demographic segment for me. I had no idea young people were late 20s-30s…ish. My Census link must be broken.
As for restaurants/retail, it seems you’re fixated on a small strip in the 40s/Taraval. My bad for skimming the previous post, but even though Outerlands announced a second location opening on Taraval last August, it still hasn’t opened. See, in the restaurant business delays like this happen a lot so no one is at fault here, okay? Until I have a menu in my hand then it’s just hearsay. But, while we’re on skimming, my references that you seemed to overlook were closer to my area of the hood in the 20s and involved storefronts that have been fixed up, but remain empty for over a decade. There are, of course, other empty storefronts which are legit. Ah, the power of skimming…
I also live in the neighborhood and totally agree with Sunsetter. To your points, Mark:
1. The weather used to be foggy throughout the better part of the summer season, but by no comparison to what it was in the decades past (call it global warming, whatever). I’ve also been surprised by how relatively little fog we’ve received during the past winter seasons as well. It’s certainly getting busier in our beachy nabe (which means local shops/restaurants like Noriega, Judah, Taraval are primed for foot traffic) when the weather is at triple digits elsewhere in the bay area.
2. As Sunsetter mentioned, the empty storefronts are disappearing one by one. Btw, Outerlands is not just anchored to one busy/popular location on Judah…the did open a delish bakery on Taraval. You might want to take a deep breath and get out for a walk in the area, if you haven’t done so by now. Maybe try a dose of Andy’s Coffee Roaster’s Snowy Plover blend on Taraval to lift the spirits;)
3. For a hint on demographics, maybe check real estate mls listing sites for average home values/sales. The ‘young’ people moving into the area easily equate to young families (many with solid tech or med related jobs). College students in the area aren’t the only ones looking for rentals and the high rents are indicative of families competitively purchasing/renting in the area as well, given the quality of private schools in the area, etc. The Outer Sunset is among the most family friendly areas in the City, easy commute down the peninsula, more parking and significantly less homeless issues than most any other area in the City for the space. For all those reasons, the area has become a draw, which means new retail would do well here (agreed though, the area is maxed out on mediocre Chinese food).
Does anyone have an inkling of what businesses are slated to move into the 2828 Sloat project? A Whole Foods would’ve a great draw for the area but there seems to be a legal restriction on renting to large franchises. Any new updates?
You can dress this [pig] up any way you’d like but it still is just that…
I would have loved for this project to go smoothly for the neighborhood as well as the developers but it’s simply not the case. This location does not have the public transport necessary to attract visitors or locals coming from downtown. Judah St. has the benefit of the N and does an excellent job at offering an array of food and bars.
It will be very interesting to see how long and for how much these would sell to individuals considering 875 La Playa sells 2bd/ 1ba for aprox. $700k and it typically takes a couple of months before they find that buyer!
@ocsf spot on! I’m off Vicente and 44th and I completely agree. I hope people do pick up on the apaprtments for $700k. It’s such a beautiful neighborhood and even with the fog it’s worth it. Condos in boring areas of the peninsula with no ocean access or even city access are going for more. I AM wondering what kind of retail is going in. With such high prices everywhere in the Bay Area, a quiet spot by the beach and with easy access to the city, there is a reason this is a highly sought after area with the “young” early 30 year olds.
Construction seems to have stalled for the last few months. What’s going on?
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