Bayview ‘Castle’ Sells For $1.4M, That’s 4x Its 2012 Purchase PriceJune 23, 2015
While the listing for the Bayview “castle” at 53-55 Pomona Street was quietly withdrawn from the MLS without a reported sale last month, it would appear the duplex has actually sold for $1.39 million.
Having traded hands for $880,000 in 2006, the Pomona Street property was foreclosed upon in 2008 and resold for $330,000 in 2012, at which point the three-bedroom upper unit was rented for $350 a month.
The duplex, which measures 2,734 square feet and sits upon a double lot, has since been remodeled.
No word on whether or not any official evictions were involved, but the entire building was delivered vacant at the close of escrow. Owner Move-In (OMI) evictions generally require three years of owner occupancy prior to a re-sale. The 2012 sale occurred three years and two months ago.
Comments from Plugged-In Readers
Kudos to the 2012 buyers – well played. I continue to be astounded by what people are paying for not very desirable places (imho) in SF. I like the Bayview, but that is about 3X a reasonable Bayview price. Just glad that I bought a few years ago and don’t have to deal with this market, which, frankly, I’d avoid like the plague if I were looking to buy. On the plus side, the continuing gentrification of a lot of sketchy neighborhoods is a very good thing (apologies to the missionlocal types).
there was a tenant paying $350 a month for the top unit when it traded last. I am sure that helped with the low sale price.
Indeed there have been a few crazy sales prices in BV, but on average you can get a decent renovated home there for $7-800k, which is a good value for frisco. BV has jumped the shark and ain’t going backwards due to a myriad of factors already discussed ad nauseam. So it makes sense for someone laying down roots to buy in BV for the mid-long term. Just like all the mission peeps who brought 8-15 years ago. Now they are well set in a very desireable neighborhood. Nice thing is that there are still multiple opportunities in D10, and you have your choice of nabes.
Mission was already a really cool place more than 15 year ago. I don’t believe in those argument claiming today’s X neighborhood is just like Mission but 15 years behind.
Even 20-22 years ago, the Mission was considered a pretty cool place to go (a little sketchy to live there, but fun to go hang out). You are right that the BV is not even close to where the Mission was two decades (or more) ago.
I stated going out in the Mission coming up on 20 years ago and it was already well established as a place to go out.
BayView in not centrally located and is mostly SFHs. It’s much different.
THese comments may all point to the fact that we are all now 15-20 years older than when we considered the Mission a cool place to hang out. Those 15-20 years older didn’t agree.
Now we don’t think Bayview a cool place to hang out, those 15-20 years younger disagree…
@DontfeartheREpa: Young people as far as I can tell hang out in Oakland more now. What are the bars in Bayview that are busy these days?
I’ll one-up you all – I hung out there 30+ years ago and yes it was a bit “sketchy” at times but it was still culturally very rich even back then. The Deaf Club, Mission Cultural Center, Precita Eyes, Cesar’s Latin Palace, Bajone’s Jazz Club (now The Marsh), Project Artaud. Concentrations of beautiful Victorians – Liberty Hill, S. Van Ness, Folsom on both sides of 24th, etc. The list goes on and on. BV has a long way to go and I think it’s going to take longer than 10-15 years. Plenty of places to get fresh produce and lots of really great, cheap restaurants. I came here in ’74 and the Mission was cool in ’74.
When I was 21 and told my parents I was going to a bar on 16th an Albion they just said two word: Valencia Gardens! and maybe followed by WTF
Zig..don’t know. I could have told you 15-20 years ago though.
@ Wai Yip Tung:
Yeah the mission was already a “cool place”, but it wasn’t nearly as trendy 15+ years ago. It was still a relatively unknown area to people outside of SF/the Bay Area, and was more affordable (and sketchy) than it is now. I don’t think the comparison is that far off, though unlike the mission, the Bayview/Hunters Point has a lot more public housing, includes/is next to a lot more industrial stuff, is more isolated from the rest of the city, and has worse public transit and fewer amenities. So it may never get quite as trendy/expensive as the mission, or it might take longer for it to get there, at least.
SF was losing population 20 years ago. It was on a long decline.
Now? Jobs is growing quickly. New buildings are going up quickly. Shipyard is quickly turing into a chi neighborhood with Google considering to build a campus. The speed of improvement today is probably 5 times what was 20 years ago.
BayView might have a lot going for it but spatially it is not like the Mission and it is not near downtown.
San Francisco was increasing in population 20 years ago. The big SF population decline of the 1950s, 60s, and 70s reached the bottom in 1979. The population has grown steadily since then, other than minor declines during recessions. The current population growth rate is higher than 20 years ago, but similar to the rate in the early 1980s. The greatest one year percentage increase since 1979 was in 1984. (all stats US Census via Federal Reserve at namelink)
You are a fact checking savant otherwise know as the Jake the Truthspeaker
As usual a lot of anecdotes and less than relevant remarks here. The population increase in SF is not specifically relevant as it effected the city as a whole and was due to a host of factors.
Most salient remark in the BV vs Mission gentrification question is by BayviewSF: “Now? Jobs is growing quickly. New buildings are going up quickly. Shipyard is quickly turing into a chi neighborhood with Google considering to build a campus. The speed of improvement today is probably 5 times what was 20 years ago.”
Bayview, although not as cool as the mission 20 years ago will gentrify faster. I’m guessing in 10 years, about half the time the mission went from genX-post-punk-alt to whatever the F it is today.
as usual, a casual disregard for facts and history leading to a profound misunderstanding of circumstances, all couched in signature misuse of the English language.
20 years ago was the Netscape IPO, which launched the Internet financing boom that saw $50 billion in VC money wash through SF in the next 5-6 years, transforming much of SF, including construction of a large data center in Bayview, and doubling rents and property values in SF.
20 years ago the seismic rebuild of 280 was underway, which had been closed by the 1989 quake, and on bad days 101 traffic would get off at 3rd and drive all the way through Bayview to get to downtown. Phase 1 of the Third ST T line had been committed and was in planning – a $650 million “improvement” through the heart of Bayview. No such similar “improvements” are currently planned for Bayview.
According to SFPlanning:”From 1990 to 2000, Bayview’s poverty rate fell by almost 20% while the local unemployment rate dropped over 50%.” Perhaps not gentrification, but unlikely to be repeated in the current decade.
Whatever anyone thinks of the current rate of development in BVHP or even all of the development there in the past 20 years, it is much less than that area experienced in the 1940s. You know when the shipyard was a real shipyard employing thousands of people. And Herb Caen extolled BVHP as a hip place where “the bars and restaurants are often patronized by people from downtown”(Baghdad-by-the-Bay, 1949).
Been more than 50 years since that was true. FTR, BVHP accounted for about one third of the total SF population decline that started in the 1950s with the decline of the port and only ended with the rise of computer industry in the bay area.
Good luck with your boo-steer-ism. BVHP could always use it, especially as there is a lot more upside in Oakland and a quicker commute to work in SF CBD.
For anyone looking for a more balanced view, there is an excellent brief study of BVHP history, recent improvements, and prospects (pdf at namelink).
As usual, archaic and irrelevant historical regurgitations, clocked by a thin vail of pretense and a condescending attitude.
The people buying in BV now are mostly professionals seeking to own in the city. Their commute to DT is decent, and better than most of SF to the peninsula. Plus all significant housing projects are getting redone. Plus candlestick park development. Plus the shipyard. Those are the driving factors effecting the future of BV, not Herb Caen yapping about BV in the 40’s. Shees what tomfoolery.
As for Oakland being an equal or better investment play than BV, it’s a avid perspective, but I’m betting on BV. Nothing like being in SF- like it or not, that psychological factor carries a lot of weight. Plus I’m capitalized enough (and frankly too lazy to schlep over the bridge) to invest in BV. I have friends buying in Oakland. I’m still skeptical what will happen in Oakland once the tech correction hits. I’m quite confident BV will be more stable.
But if you think Oakland is superior, put your money where your mouth is…
Um, “vail” is a ski resort in Colorado. And “clocked”, as in BVHP has clocked decades of investors claiming it was on the verge of gentrifying. Hope you have someone else proof your RE contracts. Really butcher the language between the frequent malaprops and habitually jumping the snark into deep nonsense. Anyway, la Comédie-SFRentier often good for a laugh, if you can risk the wrinkles.
“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it”, George Santayana.
“Your wrinkles either show that you’re nasty, cranky and senile, or that you’re always smiling,” Carlos Santana.
I want to apologize jake. I re read your thread above and now realize how insightful and invaluable it is for a BV investor. Netscape’s IPO, rebuilding the 280 and the shipyard’s mid century history are sage signifiers of things to come. Thanks again for your wisdom and astute contributions to socketsite . Really great.
“Ah, at long last, an honest man. Want to return some money?” ― WC Fields, as Larson E. Whipsnade, in You Can’t Cheat an Honest Man.
I am not a registered investment adviser (or representative thereof), and I am not in the business of providing investment advice. Anyone reading anonymous posts on SS primarily for insights of value to their RE portfolio may be in need of professional help or at the very least a competent fact checker. Apology accepted, with my sincere sympathies and best wishes for your recovery.
“The human brain is a complex organ with the wonderful power of enabling man to find reasons for continuing to believe whatever it is that he wants to believe.” ― Voltaire
Oh no of course. I always rely on a professional investment advisor. Everyone knows that most successful RE investors rely on advisors to tell them what to do. Why use your own intelligence and creativity when you can rely on someone else. It’s the American way!
Hey, whatever floats your folio into port. The degree of professionalism has been evident enough from your posts. The prior reference to being in need of professional help was not of a financial kind, but why rely on your own intelligence when it so often misses the point and your own creativity when, as Voltaire said, it allows you to find reasons for continuing to believe whatever it is that you want to believe.
Indeed, I believe what I want to believe jake, because: 1- my RE investing over the last decade+ has proven quite successful and 2- being fully independent I don’t need to kowtow to some greater boss telling (or hinting) me what to do. The reason I behave with you as I do is that I’m merely trying to protect you, from your own self realizations. I know that my quick and lackadaisical online persona gives you ammunition to believe that you are smart and successful. And you probably need that. As for me, I only need to answer to myself, and I can afford that luxury. Good luck with whatever it is you’re trying to achieve.
Given your comments here it seem more likely that you don’t get paid by a boss because the market value of what you have to offer is very low. The ability to make lackadaisical online comments on the internet is not a very prized skill.
Not true. 1- A lot of readers here respect my experience and perspective on SF RE. 2- I don’t get paid by a boss because I don’t need a boss. There’s a difference.
I think most everyone understands why you behave as you do, SFrentier. It has very little to do with reason and nothing to do with trying to protect me or the others you’ve insulted here and on other local sites you’ve graced. I certainly don’t value you as a foil to show off or validate myself. As I’ve written before, it is trivial to spar with you.
As for self-realization, well, what are we to realize about a middle-aged man with relevant experience when he behaves so rudely that his behavior itself becomes the primary focus of what had been an adult exchange? Whatever respect is due your expertise or perspective gets obscured by your behavior. Occasionally I call you on it, and then we all get these extend exposures of your nethers.
As the yogis would say, you shows signs of operating more from the root chakra. And if that seems too esoteric, take it away Gnarls Barkley:
“And I hope that you are having the time of your life
But think twice, that’s my only advice
Come on now, who do you, who do you, who do you, who do you think you are,
Ha ha ha bless your soul
You really think you’re in control
Well, I think you’re….”
Please, spare me from your self serving pretenses and pathetic blindness, and try looking in the mirror. 1- you have been equally rude, mr aspiring Yogi (sic). 2- I only insult those who insult me. You’re one of the few that’s had a problem. 3- if you don’t like my attitude why don’t you rise up to being a true grown up and ignore me?
My attitude has nothing to do with my perspectives in RE. I’ll behave online as it suits my pleasure. If you don’t like it, don’t read my posts. If the editor has a problem with me, he can ban me. That’s what happened on that weakling, self serving site 48shills (sic). They prefer an echo chamber of small and increasingly irrelevant 60’s “progressive” attitudes to solving this city’s housing issues. So be it. But I know I provide insight and value to many here, and there are some pretty interesting exchanges that many of us participate in.
ah, we’ve found the original victim: “I only insult those who insult me.” I hope you don’t actually believe that. I’d read your unprovoked insults to other posters on SS for months before I ever responded. You’ve done it for years under multiple handles, to multiple posters, on multiple websites. Dude, there isn’t just a rap sheet on you, there’s a catalog. Why would you lie about something any reader of SS could verify? Just invites everyone to doubt the rest of your shtick about being a great and powerful oz of landlording.
I doubt you were banned from 48hills because of your politics, more likely your polemics. But being the undeserved victim suits your selfimage.
At least much of what I post are verifiable data-based, often with sourcing. Sure, you may find them “irrelevant”, but they have changed the discourse on SS on a range of topics. And of course, this entire back and forth thread between us began with my factual correction to a misstatement by BayviewSF above, and then your inaccurate and churlish “As usual a lot of anecdotes and less than relevant remarks here.” US Census statistics are about as opposite as you can get from anecdotes, fyi.
As far as my responding in kind, as I wrote to you on SS months ago: “when you have a weak hand and someone pushes you, instead of folding you double down by becoming more obnoxious. That’s your tell….One of the teachings is to engage others in whatever communication works for the audience in the moment. That’s why Zen masters will sometimes strike a person, meditation masters will sometimes yell at people, … And you have remained engaged, if not enlightened.” FTR, I’m in the ‘ignore SFrentier except when he counterposts against me’ camp; an ever more crowded place with seemingly no occupancy limits, btw.
Perhaps someday you will drop the victim facade and realize there’s no justification for your behavior, it doesn’t make your content more credible, you just use it to compensate for inadequacies and to repel those who disagree with you until they either ignore you or ban you. If not, of no real concern to me, I know how to enjoy your la Comédie-SFrentier shtick. And until then, to quote another famous Yogi: “It’s like déjà vu all over again.”
Okayyyy, so now you’re reverting to make me look like a bully. A bully that’s a victim no less. I don’t think anybody buys that crap jake.
The bottom line is that I rubbed you the wrong way by dismissing the relevance of most of your posts. So you need to insult, and act like an obnoxious jerk, belied by pretense, arrogance and penchant for literary quotes that you cheekily googled to try and impress someone.
I stand by what I posted above. You’re a hypocrite that gets your panties wound tight by someone dismissing the importance of your posts. I don’t even know what you’re doing on socketsite. You clearly know little about real estate. What exactly are you trying to get out of SS, besides fighting with people you don’t like?
And to claim that I insult people unprovoked, show me examples? If I disagree with people I’ll state it. But I don’t personally insult unless I’m attacked first. The only thing I can think of is that you’re too uptight to take any irreverence, sarcasm or irony. You’re basically stubborn, uptight and righteous.
Examples you want. You ought to know by now that I don’t make fact claims on SS without backup. I’ll be nice and leave out any of the many where you used curse words. Here is a small sample of insults written by you in comment threads to people that are not me, and in each case they had not insulted you at all:
“Noemommy, girl you is thick!” –poor.ass.millionaire
“Girlfriend you is thick.” –poor.ass.millionaire
“This cat is thick” –poor.ass.millionaire
“You’re either blind or ignorant” –SFrentier
“Don’t worry clown” –SFrentier
“You really are very thick” –SFrentier
And it isn’t like you’ve been completely unaware of your behavior:
“I may be offensive, I may be annoying…” –poor.ass.millionaire
“I occasionally enjoy being obnoxious” –poor.ass.millionaire
I don’t know if you have somehow disassociated yourself from your own behavior and are bizarrely convinced you don’t have a long record of doing these things or you just want to slide by being dishonest. Either way you are not a trustworthy source.
In case you are concerned how or why I found out about your legacy, you can blame it on the lame search within SS. I was trying to lookup an old post where you and I exchanged, and google works much better than SS internal search. Turns out you use similar insults with many people and across many websites.
I’ll end with comments made to you by folks on SS back in 2013, before I had ever posted here:
“49yo potty mouth hipster.”
“Yeah really 49yohipster, cussing and telling everybody how smart you are for getting in the Mission early in every post gets grating after about 700 posts or so. You used to come off cool on here. Now you’re a friggin doosh. What happon?”
Oh sure, you really must be a sensitive guy. All those comments are in context of a discussion. There is a big difference between throwing out an occasional name or descriptor, most funny btw, and within the realm of Internet banter. But what you do is aggressively go after me because you’re offended that I dismiss your “relevant” facts.
And now claiming that I’m not a trustworthy source- that’s rich coming from someone who three posts above admits my “relevant experience.” Grasping at straws now aren’t we? And I know for a fact that many SS readers respect and trust my knowledge on SF RE. Sure we don’t agree all the time, but my opinions are respected. You on the other hand bring little to the table. Telling us in this very thread about Netscapes IPO, the 280 repairs and the shipyard history, you gotta be kidding me! That was a useless post. A- I and many here already obviously know those things. And B- they have little to do with the current trends in gentrification (which I wrote about below) and the critical aspects impacting BV now and in the near future.
Look pal, you’re an uptight, trite and angry little man. No matter your chronological age, you’re a bitter and done has been. It’s written all over you. All you have is Google as your friend to look up some “facts” that often add no value. You know nothing about creating something from scratch- a business much less RE investing. All you can do is Google some numbers to assuage your inability to grasp complex environments with multiple variables. Anyone with a half a brain knows that success in starting a business or investing in RE has A LOT more to do than some statistics. The reason I dismiss your missives is that I already know the numbers and trends. Of course they matter, but they are a small part of the puzzle, where you seem to dwell on them. Matter of fact, you easily get sidetracked and deceived. Lying through statistics. Seems like you’ve never heard of it before. And politicians, no they never use “facts” to curry persuasion. You seriously have a lot to learn in life. I’m actually doing you a favor by even having this exchange with you, so consider yourself lucky. Of course if you didn’t think so (even if you can’t bring yourself to admit it) this exchange would have been done oh 8 or 10 posts ago.
Now you are just getting silly. All anyone has to do is google a couple of those to see how unfunny and nasty you have been, and how other people have told you off before, how despised you’ve been, and how old and tired your act has become. And those are just a sample.
And you are flailing. You have no idea about the technology, retail, and manufacturing companies I’ve built from scratch that operate in over 50 countries. Of course I know there is more to a business than statistics, but if you get your data wrong or your facts or your language, then it is much harder to be successful. Shoot, I did a commercial realestate deal in SF where they made a minor grammar mistake and I leveraged it for nearly 50k. That was an hour well spent reading a boring contract. And I’ve retargeted and tweaked an advertising program to double ROAS, mostly based on complex stat analysis and variational calculus. And those aren’t even my areas of greatest expertise or accomplishment. So, spare me your lectures about puzzle pieces in the practical business world.
You often make things up and present them as facts. Why?
““Yeah really 49yohipster, cussing and telling everybody how smart you are for getting in the Mission early in every post gets grating after about 700 posts or so. You used to come off cool on here. Now you’re a friggin doosh. What happon?””
I wrote that. Dude changed. He used to be jovial, and then he started dissing everyone constantly. Now he’s mr. bayview. Like he hangs out there at night or something. what a joke.
Oh jake so apparently now we are privileged to discover that you’re very successful and full of business savvy. I had no idea! Let’s see….all your previous posts have been boring monotones featuring mostly irrelevant stats, and now you’re a seasoned and broad based business success. Well I give you kudos for finally exercising your imagination a bit! That’s a good start for you.
Simple question: if you’re such a success why have you not helped us all with your business wisdom years ago? There have been numerous posts you could have engaged at that level.
If you really think anybody reading this is buying you last post on your implied success then you really are smoking something good.
Sure I may brag here and there, and annoy once in awhile, but at least I provide interesting content and insight based on real investment strategy in a complex market. The “facts” you so desperately seek and cling to are just starting points. Success in the real world goes way beyond some googled stats.
And for the record, I’m not a BV booster. The only things I’ve repeatedly said are that 1- I think it’s a solid place for end user homeowners to buy and establish themselves in and 2- that I have found a niche that I like and that is very successful investment wise there.
Believe whatever you want about me, no matter. Given the fantasies you indulge about yourself, I doubt your beliefs about people you don’t even know are likely to have much relation to reality anyway.
Many people have called you out the same way as anon that posted above today. Many. Have you just become deaf to them all? Makes it even more hilarious that you would presume to know what everyone else on SS thinks about me or anything else.
Anyone mining the comments on SS for business wisdom must have neither much business nor need for much wisdom. If you want help from my business wisdom, then you should ask for a quote for my services. I usually bill net 30, but in your case I may have to require prepayment.
Personally, I appreciate it when people challenge the substance of what I post on SS. If SfS/lol hadn’t pushed me on rent-control I wouldn’t have understood the longterm consequences nearly as well. If NVJ and others hadn’t pushed on bike lanes and car ownership, I wouldn’t have learned nearly as much about those. If zig and orland and others hadn’t pushed on SF history I wouldn’t understand as much about it either. Even when any of those exchanges got heated, no one tilted over like you do routinely. Oh well, live and learn, and thanks to all. Every moment is teachable. Understanding these things about where I live may not add directly or immediately to my financial success, but I have a bigger life than just my $$$. Life isn’t all spent in the lower chakras, even the share of it spent on SS.
BV could become something like Richmond, but much more convenient to downtown and Mission Bay.
SFRentier, a disclaimer saying you’re a Bayview investor would be welcome. I feel like I am reading a digest of fluj’s finest…
So sorry mr. airbnb lap dancer 🙂
You’ll note that anytime I defend airbnb’s system I do disclose I have actual some of my rentals on the site.
But yeah, $330k is really low, especially in 2012. Not sure what the backstory there is but this would have been in the high 4’s at least. So yeah flippur did well, but like all flippurs they are stymied by their innate short term predilections. I’d of cash flowed this sucker, achieved condo conversion, and held until condo sales were more common/established there. Then….chaaa-ching!
If google builds a campus on Hunters Point, the property value in this area will skyrocket. This is a great time to invest if you can afford the risk.
The risk associated with a project that could not materialize. I am still waiting for my city-wide free internet. And what about the Google tower?
What risk? That’s just precious!
SFRentier is, in Vegas terms, all in.
I’ve been here before. Exactly 10 years ago. What risk. Hah!
I’m talking about my specific investments. Not my fault if others don’t know how to succeed in SF RE. My investments in BV are very safe- already hundreds of thous in added value through development plays plus cash flowing like crazy. For me, what risk. For you? That’s for you to figure out.
Enjoy your hubris while you can. I just love when people brag on the internet. It shows such tact.
by “while you can” do you mean some unknown force will put him back in his place? Seriously?
The Internet is a place to somehow anonymously share. What could be considered bad taste IRL (like bragging or sharing success) is allowed and sometimes welcome. I find it very healthy. You can learn a thing or two from people who brag. From perma-whiners? All you learn from them is that life can make you bitter. News at 11. I knew that already.
What comes with adulthood is the recognition that some people will be very annoying, bullies, loudmouthed and bragging and they sometimes do NOT end up losing it all. There’s no moral justice, just weird randomness and talent or lack thereof.
SFRentier can be over the top, but he is right to brag. It takes some guts to invest the way he has.
question for you guys: if a property listing is removed like this, is there a method or city office I could contact to get the details of the purchasing party? name, etc?
The only method I know is blockshopper.com. Not sure how long it takes for them to update the new owner info.
The property was not unlisted. Socketsite needs to get their facts straight. If you want the facts then talk to a realtor who has access to the MLS. When a piece of real estate goes into contract the status on the mls changes from active to active contingent. Once all contingencies are removed it then goes pending. Once it sells it then goes sold. Shame that socketsite doesn’t know the basics of how real estate works given they post so much opinion on things. People should trust a real estate professional for the truth. And fyi, i am the listing agent for the Castle. All your banter and assumptions are humorous to read.
We’re well aware of the correct path a listing on the MLS should take when tracking a sale. But in this case, the correct path doesn’t appear to have been followed.
Listed for sale on April 23, the status for 53-58 Pomona appears to have been changed to off the market, rather than Contingent, in May.
And while a sale was then reported on June 18, the status for the listing doesn’t appear to have then been changed to Pending on the MLS until June 23. Perhaps it was simply user error.
Regardless, thank you for plugging in.
Thanks SocketSite but this below is the actual history from the MLS. Please note the property was not withdrawn or taken off the market as you seem to think it was. It was changed from active, to active/no show, to pending, to sold. Not sure you verify your facts with actual MLS data because you would need to have a real estate license and pay dues to the Board of Realtors. If you did these steps (have a license and membership) and checked the MLS, you would not have stated an untrue fact in your link there you posted above. Perhaps it was simply research error.
Regardless, thank you for your great website. It’s always full of great entertainment.
06/23/15 10:00:34 am Sold Pending 1,390,000 995,000 06/18/15
06/23/15 9:58:36 am Pending Act Cont No Show 995,000 995,000
05/16/15 11:25:26 am Act Cont No Show Active 995,000 995,000
Propertyshark.com. You have access to ONE free report per username, but then you have to subscribe. I just checked and it’s not updated yet.
“BV has jumped the shark”
I agreed. But I get the feeling you [don’t] understand that “jumping the shark” isn’t a good thing.
“ain’t going backwards”
As long as the economy, employment and stock market continue forward, I agree. The second one of those starts to turn…watch out. Or better yet, don’t! More opportunity for me to clean up when noobs espousing risk-free returns get caught with their over-leveraged pants down…
Watcha talking bout? Of course one of those three metrics is gonna turn. I just don’t think BV Is going to crash 30-40% like it did last time. Remember? It jumped the shark!
jump the shark. a term to describe a moment when something that was once great has reached a point where it will now decline in quality and popularity.
Fonzy jumped the shark and “Happy Days” went to cr@p from there. It’s a bad omen.
For instance some skyscrapers are known to be the defining event that signaled the official top. Or some idiotic insane sale numbers. But then again, SF is special and I am certain The Bayview is totally worth a 7K mortgage.
My bad. Guess I don’t watch enough TV.
no kidding. sit on it potsy
Interesting Photo Essay on BV
I wonder if anyone can post a link to a triter, more tasteless facade in SF.
Is bad taste genetic? Socioeconomic? A spiritual disorder? Can it be chalked up to bad parenting?
Fascinating reading. Are there any women investors or bayview homeowners commenting here?
Bookmarking this thread to reread in 2-3 years.
With the “what were they thinking” tag.
1500 Jerrold: $850,000, 1200 square feet with bonus rooms down. And some dry rot issues from what I understand as well. Nice corner house though
You can buy 2 single family houses with 1.4M in BV. Shouldn’t duplex sells at a discount for the rent control restriction? Does the buyer understand rent control at all?
Why was the top unit rented at only $350 a month in 2012?
Section 8 most likely. There’s a lot of Section 8 people or there were a lot of Section 8 people out there.
For that exact same amount, you can purchase YOUR OWN CASTLE IN FRANCE and for that price you get a chapel for all of your spiritual needs!
An interesting perk: when you go to church, your noble highness has the right to sit on the first bench (yes, it is deeded).
Saw it. More like a large house with some great views from upper rooms of top floor two level unit. And a reasonably decent legal 1 bedroom in law down. Double lot too. Was still a little strange and finishes lacking. Like a variety of unfinished remodeling projects over the years.
Yes I am a BV homeowner. Bought in 2007 with a real down payment of hard earned money. Those that held on are going to be fine. Buyers since 2009 or so are all well above “fine”.
Even though prices are up a ton, still a good value. What are options for people who want a house for about $750-850k? BV, Excelsior, Vis Valley, Portola, those areas south of Ocean Ave, maybe by the zoo. At least BV is sunny, easy transportation, getting a cool vibe, relatively close in. And views too.
Potrero, Bernal, Mission, Glen Park are all at least double the cost. Sunnyside would be nice but really talking 7 figures. And I personally couldn’t live in outer Parkside, would rather live in Oakland. And BV over East Bay.
I even see spillover now into downtown SSF. A guy opened a high end whiskey shop downtown and another is starting a tiny brewery. The city has big plans for the downtown and to improve the connection to Caltrain which is awful right now
If I had extra money I would buy a property around Grand Ave
i feel like exelsior / mission terrace is the next area to have 2M sales regularly
Love Cable Car for brunch on Grand Ave
BV Buena Vista
BV destinations: Flora Grubb, Radio Africa. It’s a start. There’s also that Russian sauna. Kinda fun.
Bayview along with Silver Terrace, Hunters Point, Vis Valley, Portola and Excelsior are all on the way up and I think their collective rise is interconnected as traditionally inward looking SF expands out and over the Berlin Wall of 280. These neighborhoods all have their distinct characteristics that will make them appealing to different people for different reasons and although the newsworthy story is about Oakland’s renaissance lately, there are plenty of people like us who don’t want to leave SF for the East Bay and like that this corner of the city still has a “real SF” multicultural vibe. The views, sunny weather, connectivity to highways and transit and location between the job centers of downtown and the Peninsula will add to the desirability of SE SF as more people “discover” it.
Is it a bubble yet?
We’ve been in bubble territory for a solid 2 years now. Yes there are cash rich buyers bidding up the very few properties for sale, but 1) this is as much a supply problem than demand and 2) since overall incomes are not following market prices this market is not representative of SF dwellers’ current financial health. We are doing well, but we are not doing THAT well.
Now SF will have more turnover as those numerous boomers finally end up selling their property. This will play out in the next 10 years and this will depress prices up to some measure. Plus a popping of the current (minor) tech bubble will be overdue very soon.
Not sure, because Tech keeps expanding it’s offices all over the SFBA, and people need housing. They’re not slowing down with creating jobs so it’s not a bubble yet. This is going to continue to go up up up up imho.
I’m reading a lot of opinions, and about 99% of them seem to be coming from people who “know “San Francisco and have read a lot about specific neighborhoods, but clearly do not know the Bayview. That is to say know the Bayview beyond the Bayview they knew or recall from this or that memory from a 49ers game. I am a homeowner in the Bayview and built my house back in 2006. In that time I have seen my valuation spike, tank, and currently see it on the increase yet again, and admittedly am surprised myself when i see some of the listing prices on properties if only because even as a resident i am at times shocked to see the prices that are coming to the Bayview, especially after 5 consecutive years in Assessor appeals hearings.
People talk about how the Bayview isnt the Mission…riddle me this…has the Mission EVER been a marginialized, unincorporated part of the City? Simple fact is that the Mission has never been either, and while it was not trendy and was for a long time a refuge for people priced out of other areas it was always a core area of the City and populace.. Yes the Bayview has a ways to go, will it ever be the Mission, not likely, but then again unlike the mission aside from the public housing and subsidized private apartment complexes, the Bayview is not a large rental market, nor are the surrounding areas (Visitacion Valley/Silver Terrace/Portola/Potrero Hill). Development continues to move down the third street corridor from SoMa, Mission Bay, Dogpatch, but i suspect it will not cross Cesar Chavez as has been seen previously. With that said for the residents of Bayview and Dogpatch the Central Waterfront development will likely be where they choose to go to mill about as well as the future Candlestick and Shipyards development. Third Street at present is a ghost town after 9 pm, but it isnt because the street becomes any more unsafe, its primarily because beyond 9 pm there simply are only maybe 5 to 10 open businesses along a 10 block “commercial corridor” and no less than 20-25 empty storefronts. So what happens as gentrification continues and slowly those storefronts become via businesses? Part of the great unknown at this point. The Bayview is not trying to be the mission…people who cannot afford the mission are simply stuck on the idea that it isn’t the next “Mission.” There will be no next “Mission” in San Francisco, it is unique unto itself. Bayview in truth does not have a model, its too large and with a lingering odd history of light and heavy industrial, mixed with residential, and only newly incorporated, and facing two HUGE redevelopment project to span the next 15+ years, not to even dismiss the future of Visitacion Valley. What is known is that there is a huge housing/recreational pipeline and a yet to be scoped commercial future all further driving gentrification. I say that with trepidation that all of these development plans come to fruition of all proposed phases, but without a doubt a transformation is underfoot. There are still foreclosures in the Bayview, and long held family properties that will eventually come onto the market in need of rehab and work, as aging seniors vacate and move into the senior housing being built opening the way for new residents and community dynamics, and unlike the Mission the driving factor isn’t money and trend which is probably for the better, leading to less uproar about displacement.
As for the thought though that they Bayview is isolated from downtown…I will say this much, whenever i need to get downtown, I NEVER use 101 or 280, because Third Street is a straight shot. If i want to get to the Mission, Cortland Ave. is a quick shortcut and if need be 101 and 280 are all accessible in less than 5 minutes (with traffic). If anything i tend to think i’m pretty well connected to the City, aside from the Northwest portions of the City, but those areas are utterly disconnected themselves. Outside my doorstep…no, but hardly impossible.
“riddle me this…has the Mission EVER been a marginialized, unincorporated part of the City? Simple fact is that the Mission has never been either”
“The Mission – why that’s Skid Row, isn’t it? – Vertigo.
Well, it was at one point kind of no-go area, then in the…IDK, 80s it started it’s rise. But IDK that well. I think we have to re-do the gentrification trajectory these day. It used to be first the artists, then the gays, then it’s gentrified. I don’t think that’s the trajectory. I think the trajectory is first the (mostly Latino) immigrants, then the artists,, then the gays, etc.
Depending on the neighborhood its can be a mish mash of various ethnicities and cultural groups. But the interesting point is that gentrification is happening faster in cities like SF and Manhattan. There was an interesting article not too long ago I believe in the NYT that spoke about this. Basically gentrification has proven itself as a method of changing specific neighborhoods and increasing property values quickly, so a lot more people are jumping on the gentrification bandwagon. (SOHO in the late 80’s was one of the first areas in Manhattan to crystallize gentrification as a substantial urban phenomena.) Not sure there has been comprehensive and relevant studies, but my intuition is that this is the case in highly desireable and impacted cities with a proven gentrification record. Other cities may have “artist” areas that remain cheap for decades.
Now as for BV specifically, yes it has those groups you mentioned, but it’s also getting the professionals moving in. And that was my original point way at the start of this thread when comparing the gentrification of the mission. For years the mission attracted Latinos and then later artists and alternative crowds. These lasted for years. But professionals have only began accepting the mission with the dot com boom of the early 2000’s, and even then many preferred other hoods like Noe. That whole 20-25 year mission gentrification cycle is being compressed in BV for reasons mentioned above. Someone with more googling energy than me should look up that article. It was a good one.
“Good luck with your boo-steer-ism. BVHP could always use it, especially as there is a lot more upside in Oakland and a quicker commute to work in SF CBD.”
Oakland is a big place. Nice areas in Oakland, like Rockdrige, are more than twice that of Bay View today, so if people can afford nice Oakland, they will certainly move there.
I have trouble believing that West Oakland and East Oakland have more potential than the BayView, I really do. Let’s compare apples to apples.
Go to places like Temescal, the new parkway, check out food blogs… You’ll see that something’s going on right now in parts of Oakland. There’s really nothing like that going on in BV (and yeah I know Flora Grub…) Course, the Oakland city government is a scary mess and I’d imagine a south bay commute is way better from BV than O. Something might happen to BV in the future, but for now it isn’t happening as hipsters have gone east not south.
I agree that hipsters and foodies may be exploring parts of Oakland more than BV. But BV is getting a higher rate of professionals moving in, and that has a stronger effect on property values.
“BV is getting a higher rate of professionals moving in”
Do you have any data to back that up or is this an opinion masquerading as fact?
What kind of “data” do you want Michael? A university study that eliminates biases and sets rigorous, reproducible results? Well I don’t think that exists for this specific question. So absent that, you can either say I don’t have comprehensive data so I’ll make no assumptions from observations, or you can make assumptions from observations, which is what I have done.
I’ve been tracking the BV market, talking to on the ground realtors and have personally been approached by numerous people interesting in BV. I also know multiple investors working in Oakland and get their information. Additionally, the price point in BV is much higher than West Oakland, fruitvale, etc., necessitating higher incomes to buy there. Lastly, the overall demand in SF is higher than Oakland (meaning some who buy in Oakland buy there as a second choice to SF), so if a budding neighborhood gets green lighted as up and coming, it gets a lot of attention from professionals who cannot afford more established neighborhoods. So technically, a higher rate of higher income professionals is the most accurate descriptor.
I didn’t ask for an academic study only some basic data about buyers in each market to back up your claim about a higher rate of professionals, which it doesn’t sound like you have.
You seem to have a decent understanding of Bayview based on observations/conversations but you clearly don’t know what you’re talking about when it comes to Oakland and comparisons of the two.
Well perhaps you can enlighten us with your information on Oakland?
As a resident of BVHP i dont have any data to offer but i will say this much, the development at 5800 Third, and the first phase at the Shipyards, sold out, and those almost assuredly were not purchase by current residents simply relocating. The variety of homes i have seen go through foreclosure/short sales and subsequently flipped are not being purchased by current residents and with median prices pushing up into the mid $600k’s its a safe assumption the the buyers are professionals moving into the area, even if homes are starter homes for people. With developments at Candlestick and future phases to come at the shipyards, do you really doubt that given the market that the new residents will be something other than professionals?
Anecdotal evidence like this suggests that the Bayview welcomes new women-owned businesses, which, to my mind, is a great indicator of positive things happening here. Hipsters? I may have aged out of that demographic, but our family will surely stay late for pizza and show up early for fresh bread.
So far, I don’t see why BV is considered further out than the Sunset, and the selection of homes here (lot size/number of bedrooms, style, price), the landscape, neighborhoods, proximity to airport, all made my choice easier. The T is just as fast to downtown as the N, and gives great access to the eastern corridor of the city.
After two years in the Mission here’s what I already love: Friendly people. Views. No line at the BBQ place around the corner. Library on Third street. Heron’s Head Park and Bayview Hill. Can’t wait to try the All Good Pizza cart by Flora. Have already guiltily enjoyed parking for the bank in the suburban Bayview Plaza.
Need a grocery store. Hope that the schools in the neighborhood will open their playgrounds after hours. Hope that the inevitable change here will be informed by careful urban planning and environmental stewardship. Just one perspective, fwiw.
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