A plugged-in tipster in the market reports:
“The ball is in my court on whether to accept a 2 Bed / 2 Bath condo at The Infinity for $650/sf. No water view however, but a good view of the Bay Bridge. This shows how quickly pricing are coming down at The Infinity. The unit is 1,309sf.”
And while the aforementioned is an “n” of one, and we can’t point to an exactly 1,309 square foot floor plan (other than over at One Rincon Hill), we’ll also note the Infinity Tower Two listing for 338 Spear Street #5A asking $780,000 or $659 per square foot.
Infinity Tower Two corner two-bedrooms as pictured above are, however, presented at 1,316 square feet with an asterisk. Let’s go ahead and make that an “n” of two.
∙ Listing: 338 Spear Street #5A (2/2) 1,184 sqft – $780,000 [MLS]
what does “of one” mean or refer to?
The Tower 1 corner units are listed at 1317 sqft: Floor Plan (PDF).
They mean its only one data point.
Thanks editor(s). I’ve been hearing rumors that new Infinity units had crossed below the $700 psf threshold, so it’s now officially confirmed. And I’ll bet n>2.
There was so much fanfare when tower 2 hit the market, with posturing about how prices would be higher than tower 1, 30 sold in a single month, hallways packed with new buyers, etc. Hmpf.
if infinity , which is the nicest of the SOMA condos imo, is now down to 650 sq ft, that means beacon/palms are prob down to 400-500 sq ft
It’s hard to tell without knowing exactly which unit, but it sounds like Infinity is more aggressive compared to, say, ORH which appears to be pulling all kinda tricks to maintain the price. Perhaps because they have the whole building to sell.
5A, when viewed from Google street, is blocked off by the building next door and not going to have any view. Not much better than Blu 5E, imo, which sells at $590/sf.
To see the bridge but no water I am guessing this must be between floors 7 and 12? This unit would have to face the wall of or the roof of the building next door about 15-20′ away; at least it has privacy. Is the bridge view from the unit or just the patio?
I think pricing is good but not a first..(although one of only a few – for now). I recall hearing about a T1 4th floor unit 2/2.5 around 03.29.07 going for 611.90psf and I believe it saw a peek of the water – this priced out sim to other units of the same layout but they had a higher sf (around 1800sf)so that helped. Other than that the only units I saw scouring prop tax reports (of what I looked at) that priced even close to this were 2 sim units in phase 1 pricing out at around $670psf and one at $605psf which is the lowest I have ever seen on the building and it was sold last year.
I am actually happy to see this listing (and hope for more like them). I was just at the Infinity (T2) 2 weeks ago looking at some units. All the prices they were quoting me were outrageous with no hint of “working” with me. Yes, I think a view unit would be a little more than one with no view. But $650 sq ft vs $1400 sqft. No way!!!
I just left the BLU on Folsom. Beautiful units with great value. Because Infinity treated me like dirt, I am big time interested in BLU now. Hope the prices keep coming down….
This should be serious pressure on One Rincon’s prices.
Wish I could get a 650/sq ft deal in my hood 🙁
jessep, I thought you were buying a gargantuan house. What happened to that idea: you had real estate salespeople FAWNING all over you last week…
“FAWNING” ?
LOL.
“They mean its only one data point.”
Duh, so obvious now but had me perplexed initially, as i was pre-disposed to thinking that “N” is a floor plan type.
tipster,
I’m open-minded to all sorts of property, and now that prices are really adjusting downwards, I have to look at a lot more things.
$650/sf sounds good but for a 2 bed unit thats 1309sqft its expenisive, people that want a 2 bed unit will find $851K alot for a 2 bed in south beach. Now if it were 1000sqft 2 bed in same building $650K would be much more tempting. not gone to this building yet because of prices.
I like one rincon but as an investment when tower 2 is not built the builders will always have an advantage.
As for sfBLU I do like that building alot, there HOA’s are expensive but there prices seem almost the best for new in that general area. Does anybody think there prices ie. at BLU will drop even more or is nowtime to buy ???
“Because Infinity treated me like dirt, I am big time interested in BLU now.”
Ha ha..ditto here, Jim. I like both projects. BLU has better finishes and generally higher quality, with a more central Soma location. But Infinity has better amenities, is a larger project, and with nicer views. But their sales team, from my personal experience, is condescending and dismissive, well-versed in the hackneyed script of the real estate theater.
“Does anybody think there prices ie. at BLU will drop even more or is nowtime to buy ???”
The former. To answer your question with a question, what fundamental factors do you see that could possibly drive real estate prices higher in the next year or two?
Well the cycle has been on the down for some time now in the country, and SF is more recent and I feel that most times they will bottom at some point. I also think that interest rates are great and just maybe the government getting involved could have and effect on reaching bottom, often times when the sky is falling and its all doom and gloom on the news is the time to buy !!! It will be to late when they say it on CNN the its reached bottom. Look I have no idea and I just hope that I get in there and buy in time, but also very aware that prices may still have a way to go on this slide down.
As for the sales staff at infinity must be hard for them knowing that they can’t afford the places that they have to show every day !! and remember you won’t be living with them, but staff at BLU are nice and the building has some advantages 85% on bedrock and no BMR units in the building. nearer market street and of course way better priced per sq ft.
I’ve been a couple of times inside the “quarter circle” 2/2 units at Infinity and they don’t really feel like 1300 plus square feet. Also, as many have noted before, the placement of the concrete supporting pole in the living/dining area really limits your options in terms of your furniture configuration. Even though SFBLU units are smaller they feel bigger and are a lot more functional. To the potential buyer in this post, my advice would be to skip this unit with the awkward floor plan if you’re not getting a view and head to SFBLU. Or look at the Infinitiy Tree Tops if any are still available.
That’s a really smart decision to consider one property over another because of the sales staff.
that’s a 2/2?
There’s no tub in one bathroom right? Shouldn’t be a 2/1.75?
“it will be to late..”
Too late for what?
futurehomebuyer, I think you’ve been reading too many realtor newsletters. Let me guess: you don’t want to be one of those crying that you missed the best time to buy (which, conveniently, is basically always per the realtors) when prices shoot up 20% overnight, and there is nothing left to buy anywhere, right?
Seriously, though, everyone has different priorities and expectations. For what it’s worth, I personally see Soma prices trending towards $500 psf for these buildings in the next year or two. Maybe lower. As antonio pointed out above, the Beacon is nearly there already, with the Palms in its wake.
I’m not interested in buying something new from developers. I’ll wait to get a BLU or Infinity resale in a few years, once somebody else has absorbed the depreciation inherent in driving one of these off the curb. But my prediction could be wrong, so best of luck to you and anyone else considering jumping in today. Enjoy the new condo smell.
“but staff at BLU are nice and the building has some advantages 85% on bedrock and no BMR units in the building. nearer market street and of course way better priced per sq ft.”
There are no BMR units on site at the Infinity,
and a portion of one of the tree top units I believe is on firmer ground, Infinity is just as close to Market as BLUE as Market is at a diagonal to both.
” Soma prices trending towards $500 psf for these buildings in the next year or two. Maybe lower. As antonio pointed out above, the Beacon is nearly there already, with the Palms in its wake.”
Beacon, Palms are not in the same league as BLU, Infinity, etc. Not even close.
New condo smell is awesome! Would not have it any other way..
DON’T DO IT!!!!! You’ve been warned!
I am glad I caught this thread….really gives me a good idea of RE in SOMA and what I may want to look for (pricing, building, etc).
I still have to check out ORH and SOMA Grand. But as of today, BLU is the best choice. I just hope prices can come down a little further over the next 6 months (need to buy by Oct). And because this will be my primary residence, I really don’t care if the prices go down further in the next couple of years…
Thanks again everyone.
ps – does anyone know if the developers make “consessions” on unsold units to help with the down?
Are any 3BR treetop units left?
What ever happened with BLU needing to make a quota to close loans? Whispering of rentals (not confirmed but people were speculating so if not enough units went into contract per lending requirements) etc.? Anyone know the latest news?
I think there may be a few 3bed tree tops left but not 100% sure – just call and ask them I guess.
“Beacon, Palms are not in the same league as BLU, Infinity, etc. Not even close.”
Never said they were. But prices at the Beacon peaked in the $800-900 psf range, and are now dipping into the $500 psf range. I’m sure nobody buying there in 2005 or 2006 could have seen that one coming, huh? It was buy now or be priced out forever. Infinity and BLU may not take as big a hit, but they’re caught in the same current.
And I have not heard anything about BLU going rental and/or making (or not making) their quota. Maybe somebody else knows?
It is surprizing that the asking prices for the much heralded Tower 2 are down to $659psf. Perhaps that means one could negotiate the charming sales staff even lower? Either way the $600-650psf range does seem fairly decent for this type of unit. Willow’s point that these units “don’t really feel like 1300 plus square feet” is entirely accurate, while more functional floorplans make a space feel larger.
Personally I don’t think these units will fall far from the $600-650 range. However, the asking for this identical unit 15-30 floors up is anywhere from double to 2.7 times the price per square foot. While there is no question that better views should command a premium, would anyone honestly pay $1200-$1300psf to live 15 floors higher and expect that premium to hold up? Didn’t salarywoman say that the top floors with this configuration were asking $1600psf? That’s 2.5x – any takers?
338 Spear is not Tower I which is 301 Main. Is it Tower II or the treetop? Probably the treetop so the picture is probably wrong.
@ legacy dude.
Thanks for your reply, and yes you are right in alot of ways, I am a first time home buyer or will be if I ever jump in and do it. I’ve been reading far to many real estate books and have been listening to alot of realtors and they were telling me 8 months ago was the time to buy, glad I didn’t listen and buy then I would be so under if I had done it then.
I guess the main reason I’ve been looking at some new building is because they are priced cheaper than some of the older ones in the same area, otherwise I would have no problem getting the second hand car so to speak. In fact I think teh Metropolitan is a classy building with indoor pool but again a little pricey still.
It’s be nice to every now and then talk about RE in areas other than SOMA and Noe Valley. Anyone have insight on what’s happening in the Marina?
futurehomebuyer, take your time and look no matter how long it takes. I looked at over 100 properties, driven around by my realtor for over 3 months before I made a decision on my first place. A good realtor won’t pressure you into buying the wrong property. As a first time buyer, there is alot of information to take in as SF is a very complex market and the mix of product is pretty varied.
“338 Spear is not Tower I which is 301 Main. Is it Tower II or the treetop? Probably the treetop so the picture is probably wrong.”
Really? – the link below is for 19B at 338 Spear Street. I don’t believe the treetops have 19 floors, so the floorplan is right and it is for a tower 2 unit. So to you, I say huh?
These are the units for sale at $1200psf? The view is nice, but not nearly that nice.
http://www.climbsf.com/listings/san-francisco/338-spear-st-d-19b.html
@lolcat
Marina were’s that !!! (just kidding)
@viewlover
Thanks for the good advise.
South Beach and that general area seems to be most afordable right now. What are Your fav condo buildings in this area and why. where did You end up buying.
Bought at the Infinity and Love it!
huh? Here is a link that you may smile at.
Check out the price.. view is not too far off from the link you posted.
http://www.climbsf.com/301-main-street-20c.html
GWTF – Pretty good view, but it is in Tower 1 and a one bedroom, hence the price. It’s 804 square feet, so the price is around $1000 psf. Won’t be an easy sale.
By the way, was this a shameless plug of your own unit … by you?
“Are any 3BR treetop units left?
Posted by: solid at April 14, 2009 3:26 PM”
Well better than 1200psf 🙂
No not me posting, no plug, but you made me laugh.
Did I say I was in a 3r? A tree top?
I do recall saying I thought the treetops were nice, and in def to the comments on the curved floor plans that layouts may be easier (especially the dining room) in the tree top units.
Can someone please post a link to prop tax records for actual infinity closing prices. the numbers i have seen appear to be based on owners construction cost appraisals, for the early tower 1 sales. i had heard that they had somehow “blocked” actual sales prices from being public.
You just need to know the block and lot numbers for the building, then search the assessor’s website. It’s possible that the tax bills still haven’t been fully updated as the first bill on a new condo always includes a supplemental tax bill and it’s the second bill that is easier to look up public information on.
fhb, I ended up at 140 South Van Ness, it’s a great building, had some great floor plans and good sizes. I bought during phase 1 in 03 and sold in late 06, did well. The realtor was right and helped me get a good initial deal as well.
I like The Brannan. Great building with an established solid reputation. It has a pool and probably a good deal now as they are adjusting to the current market. Likely to hold value more than others. A good size one-bedroom in there would be a good starter imo.
I like Infinity but odd shape floorplans, bummer.
Rincon Hill is good for views and pool but still too expensive on two bedrooms. One bedroom #2307 seems to have been priced right for what it is, good size at over 800 sq, large outdoor space, killer views, corner unit, new, parking, nice finishes, POOL!! Gym. You don’t always find so many amenities in one property, for SF it’s actually rare. I was hoping the price would have fallen just a little more but I think it’s under contract. There’s too much risk of further value erosion in that building for the current two bedroom prices on mls at 950+.
It really does not hurt to make an offer sometimes if you like the place. All sellers have different motivations and timing is everything. I made a couple of offers before that were not accepted and I didn’t counter but I learned from that process. Best I can tell you is work with a good realtor, make sure they understand that you are looking for something specific and ask if they are prepareed to work with you until you find it. I recommend you look at a minimum of 20 properties within your budget, look at a variety and compare, its the only way to establish value on your needs and wants. Ask quetions about each, anything, ask the realtor what they think, talk about each of them, pluses and minuses. Get your own data base of information going and establish your own value proposition.
Make it a fun experience.
I’m working on downsizing into a soma condo in the next few months so should be interesting. So much has changed since 2006.
Good luck.
Know what they say about catching a falling knife…
Completely agree about trying to catch a falling knife, be very careful with the SOMA condo market, many of the units that were sold at the height of the bubble in 2005-2007 will go into default/foreclosure or people will simply walk away since their place is now worth half of what they paid for it. This will lead to a vicious cycle where HOA fees go up and banks become more reluctant to provide financing. The market will be flooded with even more inventory in the next few years. The SOMA condo mkt is headed much lower than anyone thinks is possible, I think you could see some places like the Beacon lose up to 80% from the peak.
antonio: I can show you my hands with NO fingers from diving into NASDAQ at 3000 following decline from 5000 only to watch it land with a thud at 1100. If your assumptions are correct – some already happening including banks (rather Fannie & Freddie) reluctant to back condo loans, SF condo prices may match south Florida prices at some point – $150 per sf ! The signature Infinity 2/2 will then cost only $195K – price of an Audi R8-V10…
“Really? – the link below is for 19B at 338 Spear Street. I don’t believe the treetops have 19 floors, so the floorplan is right and it is for a tower 2 unit. So to you, I say huh?”
Yes, it is Tower II. I’m surprised to see broker sales for new condos. Could these possibly be resales?
But this floor plan is not in the ‘A’ stack.
I posted this tip. It’s a corner unit and it is close to the building next door. In fact, the master bedroom looks out directly at the building next door which is not attractive at all. It’s on the 8th floor. Seems like a good price based on sf. But that bedroom view is a big brick wall which bothers me. You can see the bridge from the living area, and also from the balcony. But the balcony is always shaded due to the closeness to the bid ugly square building next door. I’m torn!
Victor – i think you can get a better unit same project for $100 psf more on price with far fewer flaws in view etc. it will always be an issue to sell this unit, there are 650 units in the infinity and will be lots of alternatives there for a LONG time.
Not intended as a thread hijack but a number of people have commented on the larger bathrooms at new developments. My guess is that it may have something to do with building codes that require all bathrooms to have wheelchair access as opposed to providing more space for people when sitting on the ‘throne’. Anyone know for sure?
I think Antonio has it right. SOMA condos are vulnerable to a feedback loop where foreclosures and unsold units (too much supply, not enough demand) lead to declining prices (foreclosures damaging pricing power of the unsold), which leads to more foreclosures (as owners give up as they get impossibly upside down on their notes), which leads to higher HOA’s, which leads to less buyer interest, and lower prices. Wash, rinse, repeat. This is pretty much the same story as Miami and San Diego, where new waterfront condo construction has been eviscerated by this feedback loop.
I think the real question is: Will the older SF neighborhoods (i.e. Russian Hill, Pacific Heights, Cow Hollow, Presidio Heights), come down significantly (i.e. an additional 30% from today’s prices) in the next 2-3 years? In my mind, the key will be foreclosures in those neighborhoods — are there many 5-year recasts in option ARM’s that could lead to walk aways? — and will Silicon Valley downsize if the economy worsens in 2009 and 2010 (I believe the economy will get much worse, and unemployment will ramp over the next two years).
One thing everyone is forgetting is that some of the new Soma condos fell under lending standards that were much more restrictive. 2007 sales maybe slid through the cracks but even at that time developers at places like the Infinity were requiring 20% down. 2008 Forget getting in unless you put skin in the game, both developer and lender most the time required full doc and as much as 25-30% down. This is not chump change for units going in the asking price ranges. Unless there is a significant personal hiccup I doub walking away from that much cash would be easy for people – i.e. leaving just because values are dropping. If values drop 20-30% sure maybe but we are not there yet. I think SOMA props that sold 2004-2007 have a much stronger chance of defaulting.. When I bought in 2004 I got a 0% down 80/20 this time around 2008 20% down with a 70% LTV.
Thought I would throw my 2 cents in regarding the economy and RE in SF….
In my humble opinion, the best time to buy in SF will be Q309. There are going to be more layoffs in SF and SV this quarter and we are just floundering near the bottom on stocks (but we are at the bottom). Interest rates will tick down a little more and banks will have to bend a little on the pre-quals to shore up their balance sheets. The economy is in much better shape than we all read in the papers. But media likes to throw out negative stuff to sell ad time/space. SF, as a whole, is going to lag behind the rest of the country. And the rest of the country, at close to bottom right now.
I personally am ramping up my positions in Citigroup, AIG and Sanmina with the expectations lat month was the low. And preparing my condo purchase for Q309 in SOMA.
However this plays out, San Francisco will still be the best place to invest and live for the next 30 years 🙂
“Well better than 1200psf :)”
GWTF – I agree. Looks like the unit is actually 758 sq. ft so the asking price for 20C would actually be $1058 psf. Seems like 1 bedrooms typically price out higher than 2 bedrooms on a per square foot basis … wouldn’t you agree? I wonder if he has told his neighbor in 20B that he’s selling? Even if 20B could get $950psf for his 2 bedroom corner unit, with very similar views, that would be down -29% from the $1345 psf ($1.77m) that he/she paid in March 2008.
Victor: If you are okay with the location of the unit, then don’t worry about other people’s opinion on view vs no view as it is a personal thing. I would bargain very hard on what I considered the best floor plan in the building. The wall makes it not appealing to everyone but rewards you with great leverage on price. Can’t really disclose what I paid for mine but would urge you to go lower on your counter offer.
so aside from a few posts that may have hijacked this thread a bit, it looks like $650sf for a no view corner unit at the Infinity is not all that impressive of a deal. I agree with that. For 750-800K, I need something decent to look out on. I think I will wait until the end of the year before I decide to buy something. By then, the summer hype will be over, and the Infinity will still have most of 1 building empty. Maybe by then even the venerable “Millenium” will start cutting deals!!!
Thanks Jim, knock yourself out with the AIG play. The reality is that company is toast. The government has it on life support so it doesn’t bring down the rest of the cards. It will get diced into pieces.
The market will show signs of stabilization now through Q2, but won’t have the muscle to power through Q3 and Q4. That is the problem.
viewlover at April 14, 2009 7:07 PM or anyone else interested in providing their prospective
I have a question regarding your comment about offers. How do you go about submitting your offers? Do you use a buyer’s agent to represent you? I’m wondering because i’ve already gone to several new developments and have registered without an agent. How do you draft your contract for these offers? Do you use a real estate attorney (which is what I think I might do)?
I’m considering issuing a low-ball offer on place that I like but do not absolutely love. Is there any harm in this?
New Condo Purchaser: Please email me at hox97@aol.com I have info you need.
The new developments already have boilerplate contracts ready to go. You are better off having someone represent you if you do not know what you are doing. Preferably this person representing you should know what he / she is doing!
It’s always prudent to have an attorney review a contract before signing.
Because there are certain mandatory disclosures when buying real property, there is usually always a contingency period where you can investigate the property. During this period you will be able to get your deposit money back and it will not be at risk.
If you have already gone without an agent, the new developments usually represent that they will not cooperate (pay a commission to that agent) with that agent.
Give me a call and we can talk about it. I’m willing to help you even if I don’t get paid.
Yes, use re attorney. You should expect to save 2-4% on the price over using a buyer’s agent.
chuckie,
An attorney will understand the legalities of the transaction, but I am not following your logic on how he / she will be able to know what pricing should be.
Perhaps you speak from experience? Please advise.
Paul
If you don’t know what you are doing, get an agent. If you don’t feel you are a good negotiator get an agent. I bought, no agent this time around when buying at the Infinity; worked out great and I saved money. I do have a go to agent that I use when I feel it is necessary and in those instances the cost is worth it. I also have a go to lawyer same deal.
BTW I peeked at the 8th floor unit discussed . I think it is worth what they are asking. Yes it looks at a wall but not the living area. The living area looks out on to Spear and has a view of the bridge as does the balcony. One bed looks out on Spear. Morning sun hits the living room and nicely than fades as it shifts overhead. The 2nd bedroom does face a wall and does not get as much sun/light but in my opinion it is nice to have the privacy, be able to keep your blinds open, and not have that room heat up as much. You can always make that bedroom a guest room or office.
Brand new unit, great location, great property and community.. compare this to paying the same price in an older building without the benefits of the Infinity.
The only way I would say pass is if you prefer a loft…or want to spend more to be higher up. I would not expect the upper floors to come down to the price you are shopping.
new condo purchaser. I would take advantage of Paul Wang if he is offering to help out without getting paid, if you have to have one of the units you’ve already looked at. However, I am not sure if Paul is the type of realtor that will take you to visit many properties if you asked him to, I mean drive you around for months if necessary until you found the right place, being that he is more of a hi-rise SOMA development realtor. Paul can chime in on that one. There are listing agents and then there are buyers agents, that’s my opinion and I’m sure some realtors won’t agree. You’ve got to find a buyers agent.
There are the pricing issues, if you don’t love the place then you need the best angles to pay the least for it and work in upgrades, etc.. A RE attorney can’t help you there and the sales team definetely won’t. This is so you don’t have buyers remorse and you feel good about your purchase.
I was not in love with my first purchase but it was the best that I could afford. The developer threw in grade 4 (highest quality) for the price of level 2. I then added additional updgraded flooring. AND it was my realtor that made me see how it was actually a good deal, ended up below budget by about 80 grand with the updgrades. I”m pretty skeptical by nature and needed alot of convincing, I’m a difficult customer. However, once I moved in and settled, it was a beautiful condo, primarily because it was new and all of the flooring, colors and finishes were custom to what I had ordered.
THe key is to find a good unit that satisfies most of your wants and then negotiate the best that you can. That’s why I ended up making several offers until one finally stuck.
THe problem I find with RE is that many buyers believe that they have to have a particular unit and there is no negotiating. You have to know when its a good deal and when it isnt, sometimes you just walk away. And the only way to know that is to do alot of looking. I originally mentioned SOMA, but I would not limit the geography. SF always has some new properties coming on board and every seller has a different motivation. Take your time, its’ a buyers market in terms of what is out there, and I’ve been able to find good deals in what was the height of the market so you should be fine.
You may also want to start from scratch and start looking with an agent. I found mine through E-Loan of all places, your loan officer may have some good suggestions. As some of these buildings remain unsold they may change the terms of their broker compensation, look at ORH for example, or SOMA Grand. Really, best of luck.
Paul or another agent, if brought in, can still go in and try to negotiate a commission for himself with the seller. An attorney will not do that.
IMO a buyer’s agent also has incentive to ingratiate with sellers of these large developments considering that they get paid from them… in fact many developments are offering outsize commissions to buyer’s agents. This, in my view, could be seen as an incentive, from the seller to the buyer’s agent, to throw the buyer under the bus. Buyer beware! With a RE attorney, you avoid this issue entirely.
I’m considering issuing a low-ball offer on place that I like but do not absolutely love. Is there any harm in this?
I got carried away and did not answer you specific question.
If you don’t love the place, then you will be OK moving on. Make the offer that you think is reasoanble for you and if it gets rejected move on, you’ve got it out of your system. You won’t be able to probably go back unless it’s with a counter. But at that point you are serious about buying something you don’t like just to get a price you do like.
That price can be applied to something you DO LOVE, which would make you happier in the end.
I realize that I’m speaking from hind-sight. At the time though, it was very disappointing. Everything moved quickly, there were lots of buyers, and the selection sucked. I was so defeated that I just wanted to give up.
For what it’s worth, the first placed I made was for a unit that I really loved but was not sure about the neighborhood. The asking was $589K (amazing for a two bedroom, new construction in SOMA back in 03). My offer was $560K because it was the last one to sell and had been on the market over a month (amazing what a long time was back in 03 compared to now). The counter came back at 588K. I realized that they really were not going to negotiate so I moved on.
I’m considering issuing a low-ball offer on place that I like but do not absolutely love. Is there any harm in this?
I got carried away and did not answer you specific question.
If you don’t love the place, then you will be OK moving on. Make the offer that you think is reasoanble for you and if it gets rejected move on, you’ve got it out of your system. You won’t be able to probably go back unless it’s with a counter. But at that point you are serious about buying something you don’t like just to get a price you do like.
That price can be applied to something you DO LOVE, which would make you happier in the end.
I realize that I’m speaking from hind-sight. At the time though, it was very disappointing. Everything moved quickly, there were lots of buyers, and the selection sucked. I was so defeated that I just wanted to give up.
For what it’s worth, the first placed I made was for a unit that I really loved but was not sure about the neighborhood. The asking was $589K (amazing for a two bedroom, new construction in SOMA back in 03). My offer was $560K because it was the last one to sell and had been on the market over a month (amazing what a long time was back in 03 compared to now). The counter came back at 588K. I realized that they really were not going to negotiate so I moved on.
new condo purchaser. I would take advantage of Paul Wang if he is offering to help out without getting paid, if you have to have one of the units you’ve already looked at. However, I am not sure if Paul is the type of realtor that will take you to visit many properties if you asked him to, I mean drive you around for months if necessary until you found the right place, being that he is more of a hi-rise SOMA development realtor. Paul can chime in on that one. There are listing agents and then there are buyers agents, that’s my opinion and I’m sure some realtors won’t agree. You’ve got to find a buyers agent.
There are the pricing issues, if you don’t love the place then you need the best angles to pay the least for it and work in upgrades, etc.. A RE attorney can’t help you there and the sales team definetely won’t. This is so you don’t have buyers remorse and you feel good about your purchase.
I was not in love with my first purchase but it was the best that I could afford. The developer threw in grade 4 (highest quality) for the price of level 2. I then added additional updgraded flooring. AND it was my realtor that made me see how it was actually a good deal, ended up below budget by about 80 grand with the updgrades. I”m pretty skeptical by nature and needed alot of convincing, I’m a difficult customer. However, once I moved in and settled, it was a beautiful condo, primarily because it was new and all of the flooring, colors and finishes were custom to what I had ordered.
THe key is to find a good unit that satisfies most of your wants and then negotiate the best that you can. That’s why I ended up making several offers until one finally stuck.
THe problem I find with RE is that many buyers believe that they have to have a particular unit and there is no negotiating. You have to know when its a good deal and when it isnt, sometimes you just walk away. And the only way to know that is to do alot of looking. I originally mentioned SOMA, but I would not limit the geography. SF always has some new properties coming on board and every seller has a different motivation. Take your time, its’ a buyers market in terms of what is out there, and I’ve been able to find good deals in what was the height of the market so you should be fine.
You may also want to start from scratch and start looking with an agent. I found mine through E-Loan of all places, your loan officer may have some good suggestions. As some of these buildings remain unsold they may change the terms of their broker compensation, look at ORH for example, or SOMA Grand. Really, best of luck.
a good agent will take the emotion out it. a bad one will get caught up in the hype because they are excited about the commission… or have so convinced themselves of their own sales pitches
unfortunately I think agents who do, and have done, a lot of business in SOMA are too caught up in the emotion of the area. for example, Paul is on SS talking about the “hue” or “color palette” or some such nonsense that supposedly makes the Watermark special. ridiculous
if you’ve sold a lot there, you’ve told a lot of people how great it is. to tell the truth about today’s market, and where it’s heading you not only have to come clean with your past clients, but you have to also stop lying to yourself. and that’s a hard thing to do.
the truth is there is still a huge over supply of condos in SOMA. there are many buildings that have serious location problems (SOMA Grand for instance), and within buildings there are location problems (like the unit facing the wall). Do NOT buy location challenged buildings or units unless you get MASSIVE discounts… which IMO are far below anything anyone is currently willing to accept.
IMO don’t hire someone who has worked down there without interviewing them HARD. ask where they think the future of the area is headed both in the next 2 to 5 years, and 10+. I’ll buy a positive spin if it’s 10+, but the next 2 to 5 is a problem.
the argument to hire an “expert” in those buildings is they know what to ask for. but here’s the real secret. ask for everything and be willing to walk away.
as for giving them your name without your agent so they can cut out the agent… give them fake info. cutting out an agent is designed to have control over you. they win in the end, not you. of course if you hire a cool aide drinking agent, everyone wins but you. interview several agents, ask them a LOT of questions. and hire the one who doesn’t try to “sell” you on the area or any one building.
the above came off as a knock on Paul that i didn’t really intend. i believe his color palette comment was when representing the Seller. he’s paid to sell it, and emotion sells, so he would not be doing his job if not using every aspect of the unit/building in describing it. And he may be an equally great buyer’s representative…. my point is you need to interview thoroughly, and several agents, and be careful that the “experts” aren’t over-sold on the buildings and the area because of their past.
There are Listing Agents and Buyer Agents, and then there Agents that do both effectively. I don’t just sell one building, but I do stick to SoMa / South Beach. Each building has it’s pluses and minuses. Real Estate is like anything else, you must have a goal and make a plan to get that goal. Part of the goal is financial to be sure, but it is not it’s entirety.
I helped 30+ buyers find new homes in South Beach last year and am referred many new clients by previous ones weekly. I think that speaks for itself.
By the way, “hope” is not a plan.
In current environment, if you are not using an agent, you might be able to negotiate the commission to be paid to you as a concession by developer. The developer wants to sell. He will never call it a commission, but he may agree to a lower priced offer if he doesn’t have to pay your agent.
Part of money you save will pay for a good construction lawyer that I recommend that you get.
hangemhi, you comments above came out very salty. are you saying you wont or haven’t sold any units in SOMA? you are a realtor, right?
wow, realtors throwing stones @ other realtors.
YOUR OPINION’S NEEDED:
– we just chked out tower II of Infinity — absolutely loved it! However…
– found out that the deeded parking will cost $100k
– would you pay that much for parking (avg going rate is $60-75k around the area)? And 2ndly, would you think in a reseller’s market, buyers would actually pay the $100k assuming that there’s 2 comparable units available, one with parking, one without?
Thank you!!!
I think it comes with the unit, but the developer will purchase it from you for $100k. Blu will purchase it for $60k. Millenium does not come with any, unless you spend more than 1.2mm.
I too am curious about how important parking will be for resale value.
My developer offered 100k, and no one in my building gave it back.
At 5% over 30-years you’re paying $1100/month for the parking spot (assuming $100k outlay). I’m hearing $300-$350/month to lease free spots in the Infinity.
Do the math — its about $530/mo at 5% for 30 years, not including the tax benefits (and property taxes). And unlike condos, parking spaces WILL be increasing in value.
Oops $530/month is close to the right number on a 30-year fixed (@ 5%); assuming a tax break of 30-33% it’s a wash when weighed against the current parking lease cost.
Yes, although it may be close to being a “wash”, or possibly even a good investment (per Jimmy’s analysis), my understanding is that tower 1 owners all got parking at $75k, while tower 2 paid $100k. Given this disparity (and the fact that the two towers share the same parking structure), wouldn’t owners in the $100k/space group be at an immediate disadvantage when it comes to selling?
Also, does anyone know if there’s a 2ndary market for BUYING/SELLING parking spots (I know there’s a rental one)? I don’t have a vehicle right now, hence my parking questions. 🙂
Thank you!!!
m3 — buy as many parking spaces as you can finance & then rent them out. What are people going to do, not drive?