Three months ago the three-bedroom/two-bath 1160 Mission #601 was listed for $999,000 or $751 per square for each of the 1,331 square feet. This weekend the Soma Grand condo #601 returned to the MLS with a list price of $765,000, a 23% reduction and now asking well under $600 per square foot ($574).
Also listed this weekend was 1160 Mission #1212 for $505,000/$759 per square foot. In August of last year 1160 Mission #1012 was asking $590,000 or $887 per square, an effective drop of at least 15% (i.e., not accounting for the higher floor premium).
At the same time Charles Phan’s Heaven’s Dog restaurant has opened its doors on the ground floor of the building (a nice amenity and addition to the neighborhood). And as best we can tell, Soma Grand is now roughly 60% sold (including 29 BMR units) with around a hundred (100) of the 246 units to go (up from 50% sold last May).
∙ Listing: 1160 Mission Street #601 (3/2) 1,331 sqft – $765,000 [MLS]
∙ Listing: 1160 Mission Street #1212 (1/1) – $505,000 [MLS]
∙ Soma Grand (1160 Mission) BMR Applications Are Now Available [SocketSite]
∙ SoMa Grand (1160 Mission) Update: Sales, Office, And Phan’s Food [SocketSite]
The listing does not provide even one photo of the actual unit, but rather shows the outside of the building and views (presumably from the unit).
A friend was cracking me up over dinner last week telling me of his tour of SOMA Grand in connection with the Heaven’s Dog opening. He swears he saw a unit where the you open the front door and are immediately faced with a toilet due to an extremely awkward layout. Classy.
Heaven’s dog – GREAT cocktails – mediocre food. The exception was the pork belly buns which were amazing.
LMRIM or any other arm chair analysts.
Can you tell me when will the price of these units will hit $299k?
Soma Grand is not my cup of tea, but it might work for others.
So, a Chinese restaurant is named Heaven’s Dog. You just can’t make this stuff up.
I’ve eaten at Slanted Door, thought it was terrible. But what do I know? My favorite restaurant in Northern California is Tacos Jalisco in Truckee.
“when will the price of these units will hit $299k?”
a 1/1 on Mission b/t 7th and 8th? (I love the Mission, but this is really just Tenderloin spillover). With 100 units unsold? And the 100-odd that are sold now well underwater? My bet is that by this time next year you can get a 1/1 short sale or foreclosure here for $299k.
I really like the Soma Grand. I think for the price the finishes and floor plans are decent. What I can’t understand is how you build something knowing there is a building of equal height going in next door and will block everyones view that faces West. When I looked at the building right after it opened (2007?) I was shocked at the prices for units that faced West. Although I can remember it being fully disclosed that Trinity was going in and would block “some units views”. Maybe those 100 remaining units are the ones that face the Trinity building with about 100 feet between them. Poor planning.
I’m not a marketing guy, but if I was opening a new Asian restaurnat I would not use the word “Dog” in the name…
If ‘Anonymous 12:53 pm’s question about whether & when some of these units might reach $299K, then it will mean that the market price of the units is getting very close to the BMR pricing (which was from $219 to $275).
It strikes me as both ironic and apt (since the BMR prices always seemed to me to be the appropriate pricing for a 1/1 condo).
Actually, if I was a resident here, I would be looking forward to the Trinity development. First, the views here weren’t ever really anything to get excited about IMO. People with view fetishes should buy at ORH or Infinity, not here.
More importantly, though, anything is better than that hideous monstrosity that currently sits next door. I’d rather lose my view of a rotting tenement if it’s replaced with a new project full of residents. Good for the neighborhood overall.
And I haven’t eaten at the Dog yet, but agree that Slanted Door is basically an overpriced scene. I’ve even given up on trying to find good, genuine vietnamese food in the city. I trek down to St. Joe’s when I get the craving.
I wonder if unit 601’s view is being blocked by the new building. That could also explain the drop in price.
“First, the views here weren’t ever really anything to get excited about”
Huh? What units have you visited? Some of the upper floor units have outstanding views, especially the corner units.
601 is almost at the bottom floor so I doubt it had much of a view anyway.
@ anonconfused: I guess I didn’t phrase my comment very well. Yes, some of these units have nice views. But the views to the direct west were of the old Trinity building anyway. And people buying those units were told that it would be rebuilt. So no one should feel as if they are “losing” their views now if they bought said units anyway.
This area is mid market. Many people are spooked by the transients and such, but things are getting better all the time. South of Market and Civic Center are both easily walkable from the base of the building. This area is NOT Tenderloin. The street scenes and people are totally different.
The views from the building that matter are likely to last. Outlook to the north is mostly protected by the low parts of the Federal building and the south corner peeks of Civic Center should last even when the new architectronic thing goes up. Not having views from every part of a tall building is just a part of real density. Comparied to Blu this is views central.
The one thing I don’t like about this building is that the extreme luxury oriented service seems likely to get clipped over time in favor of realistic HOA fees. Hopefully I’m wrong about that. It might be interesting to find out over time which residents pay the most and which get tea service most often. My guess is that big payers and big users end up being two different groups which should make HOA meetings fun.
“More importantly, though, anything is better than that hideous monstrosity that currently sits next door…”
On first reading I thought your were referring to the Federal Building. I know I’m going to get jumped on but that too would be an apt description!
On SOMA Grand, from what I recall I thought the floor plans and fit / finish of the building were overall very good. My big complaint as many on this site have noted is the neighborhood. Any progress in the way of genetrification over the last few years will surely be lost with the ongoing downturn in the economy. At street level this area of San Francisco is still really depressing. (I’m not as optomistic as Mole Man in this regard.) It would be a constant downer if I had to either drive or walk through this to get home.
I agree with Mole Man. I toured this building and was very happy with the floor plans, premiums and price points. I had expected not to be impressed, but I was.
M.R.
I was just there this weekend – friend got a 1 bedroom apartment there that I really liked. They’ve tried to use the public spaces creatively in the courtyard there.
Mole man – I suspect you’re right about the services they provide being curtailed over time. They really do have a lot of overhead, and I can’t imaging they’d be able to sustain over time. But it’s quality construction in higher-density housing, which seems to work well in Vancouver. I hope we can make it work here.
I used to live at 8th and Howard and didn’t mind the walk from the Civic Center Muni station. It was actually a decent area to live in. Biggest drawback was the car/truck exhaust from the freeway and everyone trying to get to the freeway. I thought I had really bad allergies when I lived in this neighborhood and it turned out was I was allergic to was air pollution!
Second biggest was that my place at the time had no parking (street parking in this area was prone to break-in’s if you leave anything in your car and didn’t leave the glove box and all compartments inside open so that thieves could see the car was empty).
Biggest plus was it is a really nice and centrally located neighborhood with great access to the freeways and public transportation.
***
“People with view fetishes should buy at ORH or Infinity, not here.”
Hmm…I think some people with view fetishes would love to have a view of that many apartments being built so close!
@ Dude, your description of the area is quite funny. Personally I think the area stinks. You’re description of the transient community is classicly San Francisco. In most other cities this area would be considered terrible. But in San Francisco, compared to the real Loin, this area is quite decent…LOL.
Not a shot at you, just thought your comment was a window into the soul of SF. It’s too bad that our standards for a city have been so diminished.
Actually, nabe, I think you have me confused with Mole Man. While I don’t mind a little urban grit, even I’d be scared to walk around here alone at night. Especially if I was sober. But I’m a wimp.
Although I do think building the new Trinity next door and filling it with people will help the area immensely, and may even displace some of the crazies.
Heaven’s DOg !? Seriously, what’s the real name?
[Editor’s Note: Heaven’s Dog.]
“My favorite restaurant in Northern California is Tacos Jalisco in Truckee. ”
Mine too. Go there every other weekend in the winter
@ Dude, the area may be poor and unsightly but it is not particularly dangerous. I have lived within the immediate area for over 15 years without trouble. I’m even raising a family here.
I’ve even given up on trying to find good, genuine vietnamese food in the city
Pagolac. There are lots of great Pho places. My wife is Vietnamese, trust me on this.
What is St. Joes?
Reductions at the SoBlah Grand? Oh, you mean the 1M+ condos in the Tenderloin aren’t moving? Unbelievable.
When I toured the development in early 2008, the arrogant British sales rep acted as if she couldn’t be bothered or didn’t have time to show us the units. She blew us through one unit after another. I wonder if she’s still so arrogant now.
Let me know when the 2/2s are $500K.
YouGotWhatsComing –
You might want to get yourself a map, as Soma Grand, as the name implies, is in Soma. Which, of course, is not the Tenderloin.
In realtorspeak it’s Tenderloin adjacent.
NoeValleyJim: St. Joe’s = San Jose. Tons of good vietnamese places down there given the large population of real vietnamese people.
Most of the places here in the city tend to be run by chinese folks. I’ve heard of Pagolac but have not been there. Is it real pho instead of bouillon cubes? If so, I’ll have to give it a try.
Lower Tenderloin
No, it would be “Lower Hayes Valley”.
If you’re going to be one of the incessant realtor-bashers, you really should put in more effort. The goal is to attach this to a MORE desirable location, rather than less desirable.
I gotta run. I’m meeting Satchel at Tu Lan for some authentic Vietnamese. Oh wait… he lives in Marin. Nevermind. He can hit up the Applebee’s in Marin City.
I agree with Mole Man, “This area is mid market. Many people are spooked by the transients and such, but things are getting better all the time. South of Market and Civic Center are both easily walkable from the base of the building. This area is NOT Tenderloin. The street scenes and people are totally different.”
The place is pretty close to Golden Gate Theater, the Opera House, Davies, Asian Art Museum, etc. Maybe not great for night strolls, but for weekend afternoon events it would be a perfect walk to any of those venues. The area IS getting better all the time, especially as more people move in. I looked at several units last spring, believing I could land a pretty good deal when real estate takes off in a few years (I was thinking long term) but the rooms were a tad too small for my tastes and while they were probably priced on the high end of “right” a year ago, they are definitely overpriced these days.
amunsed: “If you’re going to be one of the incessant realtor-bashers, you really should put in more effort. The goal is to attach this to a MORE desirable location, rather than less desirable.”
LOL, that’s true. Then how about “Upper SoMa” since SoMa is more desirable than the Tenderloin? Or you could be twisted and call it “North SoMa”, since it is on the northern border of SoMa. 🙂
Got some useful information from this thread about Tacos Jalisco. Must have driven by it about 50 times and never noticed it – but I will be sure to stop next time. Haven’t tried Heaven’s Dog yet. I agree that Slanted Door is OK but overrated.
Two words: Valet Parking. It sucks.
Actually the sad thing about SOMA Grand is that if they had stuck to their initial plan of having an “affordable” condo/spa community experience in a “transitional” hood, they probably would have been very successful. The prices, initially starting in the 400’s, got higher and higher with the greed of the developer, priced out the original target market, and the economy did the rest. Thus the Grand Flop you are seeing now.
the luxurious features they are always touting seem misplaced for this neighborhood, particularly this specific 2-3 block stretch which is the worst part of market/mission.
if i had any extra money to devote to my housing expenses, surely the top thing on the list would be to upgrade myself out of this neighborhood asap instead of opting for spa/concierge instead.
“I’m meeting Satchel at Tu Lan for some authentic Vietnamese.”
Hi Fluj. If you’re going to be one of the incessant satchel-bashers, you really should put in more effort. The goal is to actually say something MORE witty than Satchel, rather than just grousing about Marin.
Miss you dude! Housing bulls have gotten awfully scarce in the last two months. Socketsite is just not the same now that it’s pretty much wall-to-wall bears. 🙂
“you really should put in more effort.”
Are you kidding? Flujie’s restaurant recommendations are some of his best contributions. I’ll definitely be trying it the next time I’m in the neighborhood. Still need to get around to suppenkuche too.
This neighborhood is awful and will be for a long, long time. San Francisco’s Hell’s Kitchen.
remember this area got “stalled out” just like ORH did and each project now looks stranded, and everyones wondering how it ever looked good…..
BUT – ORH was going to have its phase 2 and turnberry across the street, and fifield down the block….
and the SG was going to have a thousand or so condo units developed nearby in the mid market plan and the western soma plan. ….
The developers made a timing play on neighborhoods changing and just got cut off by a really severe market cycle. the areas probably will develop next cycle, – say 5 years.
“San Francisco’s Hell’s Kitchen.”
Hell’s Kitchen (New York) has gentrified into an expensive area.
I personally liked Soma Grand’s building especially that some units had 3 bedrooms that were reachable in theory (not 5,000,000 bucks). the nabe isn’t for me at all and that’s the biggest drawback. I think people would sing its praises if it were in South Beach or on top of Nob Hill… location is definitely a downer.
===
the areas probably will develop next cycle
probably.
– say 5 years.
that one I’m not so sure about. Start talking 10-15 and you have me on board.
After the downturn that started in the late 1980’s it was a good 10 years minimum before you started to see re-gentrification of ‘hoods (late 90’s). It hadn’t happened by the mid 90’s. RE cycles are pretty slow. we’re only 1-2 years into this one, and there is no indication that the “bottom” is anywhere near yet (although it could be, we’ll only know in hindsight. I’d be shocked if this is the bottom though, as most of you know I don’t even think pressure will be relieved on the SF market until Dec 2011, almost 3 years from now, although the bottom may come somewhat earlier)
Of course, this all depends on what the US’ role in the world is at the time, and SF’s role as well.
SF/Bay Area is so high cost that it can fluorish, but to do so it will need to either drop its high costs or continue to remain one of the innovative capitals of the Earth. but it must do one or the other or both. SF has been one of the most innovative places for about 15 years now… was it a transient thing or is it durable?
I’m not fluj. Sorry. More of a design ho, and not a realtor. Though I do dislike Satchel. That’s true.
[Removed by Editor]
If you want good Vietnamese I recommend both Turtle Tower on lower Larkin in the ‘Loin and also Evergreen on 18th and Harrison in the Mish. I used to eat at Sunflower all the time too. It’s good but it’s been surpassed, although their imperial rolls are the best in the city IMO.
NVJ, you sound like you know what you’re talking about. How do you and yours rate the ones I mentinoed?
I toured this place in early 2008. Floorplans are a little awkward and it’s a big bummer how the federal building just sticks up in your face.
Some of the units have great views though. Very affordable.
[Editor’s Note: And with that we’re back to the Soma Grand (or at least Vietnamese restaurants which in a post that references Charles Phan is fair game)…]
LMRiM what are you trying to get to with your pun on the words chinese and dog? are you a racist?
minou,
LMRiM what are you trying to get to with your pun on the words chinese and dog? are you a racist?
The editor may not want to continue the food discussion, but I’ll make a few points because I’m in a feisty mood.
First, it’s not a “pun” or play on words.
Second, certain Chinese apparently eat dogs. This practice is abhorrent to Americans, and I suspect most Western countries. The Chinese recognize this fact themselves, and that is why restaurants in Beijing were apparently officially encouraged to remove “dog” from their menus during the Olympics:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25633945/
Third, in light of that history that is in the public consciousness, I’m surprised that a Chinese restaurant would encourage what is a natural association for many Americans to make.
Last, that’s not “racist”, that’s just facts (Americans believe that Chinese eat dogs, Americans in general find this abhorrent, and the Chinese authorities are sensitive towards this view). And my implicit opinion is that naming it “Heaven’s Dog” is questionable marketing for a Chinese restaurant. Perhaps the restaurant is hoping for the “attention” by people making the connection?
But your post is a typical attempt to shut someone down by calling him a “racist”. Classic SF. I also note that two other posters (etslee and FmrAptBroker) both expressed surprise at the name (for obvious reasons), and of course you didn’t say aything to them.
Have I been clear enough in my answer?
I think he’s trying to insinuate (rightly or not) that Chinese people cook, eat, and serve dog meat as food.
I’m sure you’ve never heard that before.
I dated a FOB Chinese girl for about 3 years and she told me that she used to eat fried dog skin as a snack in winter. Kind of like an Asian pork rind.
True story. So, at least one Chinese person has eaten dog …
Dog is eaten in China primarily in the winter, under the belief it helps warm up the body. The Chinese have enough customs/beliefs around food to fill an encyclopedia. This is merely one.
I can’t understand why it would be considered abhorrent to anyone. It’s no different or “gross” than eating pork or rabbit, really.
Anyway, since the editor will allow questions regarding Vietnamese restaurants, I’d like to re-ask NoeValleyJim for his suggestion of good places in the city.
Heaven’s Dog is Sirius business!
In this context, it’s a mythological creature that’s eats the moon during lunar eclipses.
/and other things depending upon whom you ask.
Trust us, Mr. Phan knew very well what he was doing (and of the association with the name). “Heaven’s Dog” is also the equivalent of a royal flush in Pai Gow (and speaks to the inspiration). And now back to the Soma Grand…
If you want good AND authentic Vietnamese food here in the city the answer is: none.
If you want frou-frou, kinda-sorta good, way-overpriced Vietnamese fusion, there are several places.
If you want the real deal, San Jose is where it’s at.
NVJ,
Yes yes yes to Pagolac.
have you ever had the beef done 15 differEnt ways dish, or whatever it;s called..?
SOMA Grand is classic “bubble” property. In a very suspect neighborhood, it looked good on paper in 2004. Like Vegas, Stockton and Bakersfield, the weakest locations get hit the hardest. Pricing will continue to drop until the inventory there absorps. The lender, I am sure is getting itchy.
As for Vietnamese food, it is correct that most Vietnamese restaurants in this City are owned by ethnic Chinese (including Slanted Door). That being said, I hate how people equate Vietnamese food with low prices only by comparing low price dirty pho joints on Larkin with higher end authentic Viet food. For my money, I love Bong Su. Many dishes there can be found in high end nice restaurants in Saigon and many dishes there simply can’t be found in this City at all. I just returned from Vietnam and can attest to that. It’s like comparing Golden Boy pizza slices at 2 am to Delfina’s $16 pizza.
As a side note, a small town outside of Hanoi is known as “dog town” and dog is readily served in restaurants there.