According to the developer of The Infinity, 295 of the 365 units (80%) in phase one (tower one and the treetops) have closed escrow, up from roughly 255 (70%) in October of 2008. Twenty (20) new contracts have been written in the past 30 days (39 in Q4 of 2008).
More detail on the official starting prices for the 285 condos in tower two (vs. tower one):
One-bedrooms “from the mid $500,000s” (700 to 1,020 square feet)
Two-bedrooms “from the high $700,000s” (1,160 to 1,600 square feet)
Three-bedrooms “from the high $900,000s” (1,630 to 1,740 square feet)
Penthouses T.B.D.
Design changes between the two towers include four penthouse units in tower two (that’s a view from the crown jewel #42B below) versus only two in tower one.
Upgraded appliances in the top twelve floors of tower two and cabinetry in the top six.
And one-bedroom corner homes in tower two.
∙ Infinity Tower Two Inventory To Start Selling In January (2009) [SocketSite]
∙ Infinity Sales Update: New Contracts Up But Driven By Discounts [SocketSite]
∙ The Infinity Sales Center: SocketSite’s Inside Scoop [SocketSite]
∙ Infinity Tower Two: “Starting From The Mid $500,000s” This Weekend [SocketSite]
I don’t suppose unit 42B is 900,000.
Nutz
[Editor’s Note: Nope. Currently seeking north of $7M (and our photos don’t nearly do the unobstructed views justice).]
Given the Infinity web site is not updated to search floor plans – anyone know what the lowest floor 3 bedroom is available?
Also from what I can tell on site there looks to be some cool ground level units with good size private patios, quiet off the street. Any idea if the units with private patios are fetching higher prices due to the outdoor space?
Isn’t 7MM what G paid for his PH on the 37th floor of T1? So the same price for this 5 floor higher unit in T2 with better kitchens? I’m loving the new cabinetry on the top six.
I am not gonna lie. I love the curve of that building. Prices seem to be baking down nicely too.
Love the cabinets on the top 6! Two more years and I’ll pick one of those up for what I could have bought at the Palms last year.
FYI, for the first release there is only one unit in the mid 500s. it’s a low floor 1 bedroom…everything else is high 600s.
Nice cabinets, beats the tighty whites in T1.
Still overpriced, but looks like they’ll get what they want for the water view units since inventory is low for those facing the water.
Has anyone seen higher views from T2 looks facing the city?
I visited one of the higher floors on T1 and despite the height, it felt like I was looking up at Rincon Hill (The Met + PGE building looked quite tall even though they are shorter buildings)
I thought G’s ph was half a floor with only 2 ph’s in tower one compared to 4 in tower 2. I guess that means the price is twice psf?
[Editor’s Note: Not quite. While tower two has four penthouses they’re not all of equal size and #42B happens to be half the floor (hence our crown jewel remark).]
Here’s some questions maybe someone can answer. Suppose I’m in Tower I and am 20-30% underwater. Suppose I stop paying my mortgage. i understand it might take a year to foreclose. When this happens, is there any problem getting my stuff out? I assume no one will give me a loan for 7 years and my credit is ruined. Would i be able to rent. Would i be able to pay cash for a different condo, perchance in Tower II?
So the question is from a financial point of view, assuming you are employed and have no problem paying your overpriced mortgage –how much does your condo have to be underwater before its worth stopping paying your mortgage?
Got a question for those who live @ infinity…
Does your unit get direct sunlight?
I can’t see how some of those units facing the courtyard get any sunlight at any time of the day (except perhaps reflected sunlight from the other buildings)
I face south and get tons of sun from sunrise to almost evening when the sun moves past ORH and around to the West. Another poster in past mentioned they are on the West and get the same amount of sun I get, same times except a bit later in to the evening. Of all the units I have lived in including 30th floor plus downtown (another building) these units get the most light I have ever had and I love it.
Would love to rent a unit in Tower II.
I live at the Infinity. My unit is a large 1 BD 845 sq ft. I paid low six hundreds in the mid rise. It’s a sweet layout, great upgrades, location works well (close to FD). The building is the best of the bunch in my humble opinion. Sorry to see prices for the tower II (probably low level and smaller) around what I paid, but I think the one I bought is larger than most in the tower and no issues in my unit with layout due to curved windows. I don’t know what mine would cost in this market but I couldn’t qualify for 90% financing now anyway. To buy now you need 20 plus percent down or cash. Downside is little natural sunlight. But do like much more than expected the bamboo growing alongside the data building next door. Eventually I could sell this bad boy for more than I paid but plan to rent it. Da bad news bears on this site can’t make me regret being an owner at one of the best or the best new development in SF one block from the embarcadero and 4 blocks from downtown. Prediction-the Infinity will do very well long term.
Any idea what the price point is to get into the top 12 floors with the upgraded appliances and cabinetry?
I’m guessing that the top photo is of tower 1, as taken from the top of tower 2? Can you confirm, editor?
[Editor’s Note: From a balcony attached to #42B to be exact.]
Sucka,
I agree with you. I didn’t buy at the Infinity, but I could tell it was a high quality project.
It’s going to be an interesting month…we’ll see if sales can finally pick up traction.
Infinity *is* a great development, no question. Will values hold at bubble prices when everyone who bought was going to have instant equity (remember that term – haven’t seen that for awhile) and you needed No Income, No Job or Assets to get a NINJA loan? Obviously not. But Infinity is a great place and will do better than others.
And in a recession, people with bad credit do fine. Landlords get desperate and everyone else has bad credit too, so it isn’t going to be that big of a deal if the *only* problem is walking away from a mortgage.
The owners will come on here and tell you I’m wrong, but they do that because they know people who walk away hurt their property values.
But so many people will be in the same boat, and so many places will go vacant, that it’s hard for me to imagine you’ll have that much trouble renting. Will you have SOME trouble, of course. But you’ll get a good reference from the first guy who says yes to you and then you’ll be back in business for the next one.
How about throwing in a hood for $7M – those Microwave/fans are terrible. One steak and the whole place is a smoke-fest.
“upgraded appliances on the top twelve floors of tower two as well as cabinetry in the top six.”
With 42 floors, that means only 30 and above have the upgrades pictured above, which are a great improvement. However, that means that 27D will have an asking price of between $1300-$1350 psf ($1.7-1.8m) with no upgrades to speak of. My, my.
Floorplans seem to be identical, save perhaps the penthouses, so the living room design defects of T1 will almost certainly plague T2.
Do you really think they would drop the prices low enough to make a $0 profit? What % of the price do you think one of these cost to build?
Sucka,
Sorry, but unless you plan to live there for a long time, you’re never going to break even on the cash you put in.
the infinity will be a great project long term, but only for those who hold the precious water units.
Rincon Billy–.
So I will never break even on the cash I put in you say? I may already have. The Front Steps today reports that 1BD midrise units are starting at $699k and there aren’t very many left.
I saved 30k in rent this year. I have deductible mortgage interest of at least 20k. I have a $7500 tax credit this year.
I do plan to live there for the next 5 years and as I mentioned I plan to rent it out.
Think I’ll have a problem finding a renter for a one BD 4 blocks from the Fidi? Rents will service the mortgage plus HOAs at $3450. How many years till rents get there? They will eventually.
I see this as a v. good long term investment and for now its a great place to live.
Sucka,
Could you post the link to that please?
I’d like to follow up on the Infinity’s status. =)
Thanks!
-Krishna
The Front Steps Dot Com under the Infinity article today.
I would like to take the opportunity to once again point out that the Infiniti towers are the ugliest buildings in san francisco…. and they will seem even uglier in 5-10yrs. seriously, this is such an eyesore.
think capitol records 1970 style
spencer – I disagree and like the Infinity better than most of the tall buildings constructed lately.
And I like the Capitol Records building in Hollywood too.
By the way, kudos to the crack SocketSite photo squad : those are some great photos !
I agree with unearthly – what kind of premium “luxury” unit has a microwave fan instead of a hood over the stove? SF’s idea of “luxury” I continue to have to question sometimes. This is “nice” but in other cities like LA, SD, Chicago, etc. this would not rise to the same standard of “luxury.” Geez, and what does it take to get some nice molding/crown molding in a place here?!?
“Downside is little natural sunlight. But do like much more than expected the bamboo growing alongside the data building next door.”
Sucka,
Does your unit look directly in the side of the data building next to the Infinity? If so a price in the low six hundreds does make sense. No shock about the lack of sunlight if facing a building 10 feet away. I’m sure prices for your unit will probably reach $3450 by the time my kids are ready for college.
P.S. – I don’t currently have kids.
Error 500.
There are no windows at the Data Building. It looks out onto the bamboo.
Rents are already at at around $2800 so only $600 in the next 20 years in unlikely.
Thank God the Infinity does not have crown molding.
The Infinity style wise may not be for everyone but I can say for those that enjoy modern aesthetics no other building in SF can compare.
Hoods: although I agree, I can confirm being I tried to cook and it did smoke, that the fans on the microwave are more than enough.
A Safe (and on topic) Place To Discuss And Debate Mortgage Rates
“Rents are already at at around $2800”
Someone posted that rents at Rincon for 1BRs start at $2400. Those units get a lot more light. Similar units may have existing leases at $2800 but it will be hard to renew at that level.
$2800 for a 1-bd if you have views; if you don’t then expect less. Paying a premium for a non-view 1-bedroom makes very little sense.
Hoods: although I agree, I can confirm being I tried to cook and it did smoke, that the fans on the microwave are more than enough.
You must cook at low temperatures 😉 I’ve been resorting to putting a towel over the smoke detector.
unearthly really? I have set the smoke detector off every place I live but here.. do you have the higher ceilings, maybe that saves me?
I WISH…I WISH…I WISH I WERE THE MILLENIUM….
HOA includes gas cooking, water, sewer, exterior maintenance, insurance, gym, pool, pool maintenance, security, concierge service, lobby personal, coffee service, monthly parties, etc and the HOA is at least 700mo. The Millenium is probably atleast $1100 mo but they have a bigger gym, gigantic pool, 11 concierges, private dining room, 24hr room service?.
Coming from a single family house in a SoCal gated community with $150 mo HOA….when you include the gardner, pool service, insurance, exterior maintenance, etc, $500@month would be a bargain.
There is a lot of wishful thinking in rental market today. $2800 is more like what ORH 2307 will get, if it ever finds the tenant. 1BR w/o city/water view, I wouldn’t pay more than $2000. List it, and you will see.
Hoods: although I agree, I can confirm being I tried to cook and it did smoke, that the fans on the microwave are more than enough.
Make sure that the packaging that the hood initially came in is removed from above the grill. You would not believe how often that mistake is made. From these “smoke” complaints, it sounds like that might be the problem.
The strategy of owning some midrise here and thinking it will rent for $3450 in 5 years sounds like a losing investment strategy to me. No use arguing now over it, only time will tell. It’s interesting, though, that at this late date there is still so much speculative fervor in the buyers. Bear markets uually don’t end until this is completely wrung out.
About current rents, I have a number of friends who have been interested in cash flow properties at this mid- to high-end level in other cities. They place dummy ads in craigslist at the desired wishing rent, complete with phony pictures from the project’s website. the responses help them gauge true demand. A friend who did that in Miami recently discovered approximately ZERO interest at what he thought were prevailing rent levels (one asked for a 30% discount right off the bat, and another asked if “busted credit” is ok). The “dummy ad” strategy seems like a useful tool to try to gauge potential interest, and it costs nothing.
Anon,
HOAs are very different in a single family home development, even a gated than a high rise condo building. There is simply much more infrastructure to maintain. You can’t really compare the two. To really understand you have to look at each budget separately and what goes into it.
It is amazing to see rents going either to the level they were in 2000-2003 and in some cases lower. I rented a unit at the Paramount floor 30 up.. pano bay and city views at that time for $2800.00 1/1 and it did not include parking. Plus this was the teaser rate from what I recall for only a 6 month period.
I’m skeptical about the recirculating hoods having enough capacity for a big time stir fry. My cheap but high volume fan that vents to the outside and sounds like a DC-10 taking off can barely keep up with a 18 inch skillet full of veggies on the big burner at high power.
Those little recirc fans are probably fine for heating up pasta and sauce though.
anonn – Yes, I can believe that installers don’t remove the packing material leaving the new resident with an inert hood. I’ve seen such “sponges left in the patient” before. The most memorable was when I went over to my brother’s new place to see what was wrong with his clothes dryer. It worked fine before the move, but now it just produced loads of warm but wet laundry.
Turns out the problem wasn’t the dryer but the outside vent hood. There’s a little flap that closes over the hole so cold air doesn’t blow back in from the outside. The stucco installers stuccoed right over the end of the flap sealing the vent pipe closed.
It’s a 300CFM exhaust, pretty worthless when your searing meat over high heat or doing a stir fry.
G must wish he still had this beautiful view of the Bay Bridge.
“The Front Steps today reports that 1BD midrise units are starting at $699k and there aren’t very many left.”
SFC – While that may in fact be what Infinity Sales are asking that doesn’t translate into actually sold units so I wouldn’t count your equity so soon.
As LMRiM notes, buying here as a rental makes very little sense. Factoring in HOA and Property Taxes you’re going to be seriously underwater each month.
LOL @ local observer
Before moving to rincon hill, I used to scoff at the millenium being an overpriced ORH or Infinity…
But in times like these, it just goes to show only the truly wealthy can afford to live at the millenium.
It’s over for the posers.
FYI – Tower 2 floor plans are online. Check the “Spear Tower” option.
Also, it appears there are 5 floor plans on 42 (one is a 2 level facing south-east (D2L, D3C, D2H, D2G, D2D).
Can I ask what the difference in HOA dues is Infinity versus Millennium? And, second question, what is the difference in actual ammenities? Is the difference worth it from an HOA perspective?
How can anyone be willing to spend $500 on HOA/month fees? With a mortgage, your principal will decrease with time. Lets say one day you pay it off, but still you will have to pay HOA until you die, hopefully you have enough income to cover that. I am not even sure what is the HOA fee, but I look at some condos in SF, they ask HOA in that range. So I guess , whoever is buying these units are rich/weathy people, that do not depend on a job to pay these units monthly expenses. Well, I wished to buy one, I have good income from my engineering job in silicon valley, but it is hard to justify to myself to spend high HOA fees , and is not deductible for tax, and in this economy $500/month is not small money, at least for me.
Josh
Go buy a house. Then add up all the maintenance you payout every year. i WISH my maintenance alone was only $500/month.
I’ve said it before … love the widened sidewalk on Spear between Folsom and Harrison … can’t wait for similar set up to extend further up Spear, up and down Main, and up and down Beale Streets in the Rincon Hill neighborhood some day …
Josh,
Living in a 700/month HOA building at south beach makes perfect sense to someone like me. My wife and I live with only one car (I walk to work), so we save at least 400/month. Plus, we can enjoy a gym, 24 security, swimming pool, and a landscape worry free life.
Josh,
Mac is right, with most condos the maintenance fees are a bargain compared to what you end up spending with a house. But it’s not just the money, it’s also the time. Even if you hire people to do the work you have to spend time finding them, scheduling them, checking their work, writing checks to pay them, and (often) cleaning up after them. With a condo it’s one monthly check and you’re done.
Josh,
I personally know 5 people in the last 2 years moving from the burbs (Orinda, Millbrae etc) into condo’s in the South Beach area. Majority of them travel for work and like the idea that once you close your doors, you have nothing to worry about. (No garbage, worry about newspaper, mail, gardening and most important; security).
A friend of mine who recently had a kid moved into a 2 bedroom condo because of the safety for his wife and kid when he’s away. He didn’t want them both in an empty house for weeks at a time while he’s away.
Especially if there’s a doorman or security, paying the fees is well worth it.
HOA fees are generally higher than equivalent costs compared to homeowner managed maintenance.
As Salarywoman notes this comes at a time cost of arranging and meeting the repair people. As a homeowner you have the opportunity to shop around for a better deal. Most (not all : sit down there !) HOAs are not very price sensitive. They will hire the top end professionals with the crisp uniforms for the advantage of simplicity and reliability. This makes the job of the building manager easier but they do not necessarily get better value.
And of course homeowners have the opportunity for DIY maintenance which is really cheap for those with the right aptitude and skills. For example I’ve repaired dozens of plumbing problems over the years that only took one to ten minutes of work; less time that it would have taken to even phone a plumber. Do HOAs even cover interior plumbing problems ?
The maintenance costs on my modest house seem to average about $100-150 per month for everything, even the stuff that HOAs do not cover. This includes some capital expenses like a new roof and exterior painting.
This is a different strokes for different folks situation. Condos/HOAs are fitting for those who want simplicity and don’t want to get involved in any aspect of maintenance. Many will find a $500 a great deal for not having to worry about the mechanical stuff.
By the way there are companies who you can outsource to completely manage maintenance of SFHs giving the care free advantage of a condo’s HOA with the advantages of a SFH.
47B is asking 8mil
The prices in T2 are NOT lower than T1’s.
There is a 1 bedroom for 530k but its on the lowest floor and the SF is smaller than the 1 bedrooms in T1.
Not all units in T2 are better than the comparable units in T1. The stacks facing the embarcadero in T1 are nice because they have unobstructed views but anything else is not more favorable. anything facing south is closer to the freeway, thus the view is the same ( minus more city view that T1 gets) and there is more noise. Anything facing the city is blocked by T1, therefore, overall pricing will differ depending on the views. I was looking to buy a unit in T2 but was dissappointed that they weren’t THAT much better than T1.
the rounded 2 bedrooms differ: 1) the cabinet is not a glossy creme color ( unless you are in the top units) and the hallway between the kitchen wall and bedroom is narrower. This is so they can create more kitchen counter space and push the island out more to save room for the dining table.
A typical corner 2 bedrooms is 1316 sq. ft. Yet, the kitchen is in the living room. You can barely fit a couch, two small armchairs and a dining table for four in that living room, the guest bath does not even have a tub, the second bedroom has a small closet, and the bedrooms aren’t unusually large. I guess a significant percent of the square footage is walls, columns and shafts.
The maintenance costs on my modest house seem to average about $100-150 per month for everything, even the stuff that HOAs do not cover. This includes some capital expenses like a new roof and exterior painting.
Are you serious? I wish mine was even double that. Do you do your own exterior painting? How much is this, about $5k every ten years? And a new $10k roof every 20 years adds up to $80/mo just in roofing and painting.
We just had to have the main plumbing lines redone, as they were originally clay and had disintegrated over the years. This required digging up some of the old concrete pad, to get to the sewer lines, and then pouring concrete. This was another $17k and was only that cheap because we found a plumber willing to work in our tight crawl space. Most of them wanted to tear holes in the floor of the bottom unit, which would have cost more to repair. Perhaps you will get lucky and not have one of these big jobs, but I think about 0.5% of the market value of your home per year in maintenance is probably about right, at least for these older homes.
NYTimes article 2/8/2009 : You Try to Live on 500K in This Town
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/08/fashion/08halfmill.html?_r=1&ref=style
PRIVATE school: $32,000 a year per student.
Mortgage: $96,000 a year.
Co-op maintenance fee: $96,000 a year.
Nanny: $45,000 a year.
Wow! $700 a month looks really cheap compared to NY Coops. Anyone knows why a coop fee is much larger than a condo HOA?
Anyone knows why a coop fee is much larger than a condo HOA?
To keep the poor people out 😉
Actually, it’s because a coop pays its taxes as part of the fee.
You don’t own property but shares in a company. So you “communally” pay all 1) taxes 2) utilities.
Those are included in the fees.
NoeValleyJim – I think that the reason my costs are lower is that I do my own landscape maintenance. So I guess the DIY factor is tainting my numbers. To hire a gardener, add $150/month. So that puts my costs in $250-300 range.
The other factor not considered is that I did not account for a reserve for capital projects. I do have a reserve (the future down payment, natch !) but did not amortize any of that into my estimate. A real HOA would want to be prudent and bill slightly higher than the real costs to maintain a war chest.
But so far my capital projects excluding remodels haven’t been too bad :
o $10500 for a new roof
o $4200 for exterior paint
o $950 to replace a water main
o $400 for termite extermination
That’s over a period of about 14 years. Costs for those big items comes to less than $100/mo. The roof should last at least 30 years and I can get 10 years out of a paint job by touching up the south and west faces at about the 6 year mark.
I think that your property is a two unit building and that might cause your costs to be greater.