Last October we solicited feedback from “past, current, or prospective inhabitants” of the ClockTower Lofts in order to “shed some light on the development in general, and the impact of the Bay Bridge [traffic] in specific.” We limited comments to those with first-hand knowledge rather than simply conjecture, and we compiled some great responses (and neighborhood insight).
Today we do it again. Only this time, the topic is living in North Mission Bay. And we’re using a slightly edited reader’s comment as our starting point:
I lived on King St for almost 2 years before I had to move due to work. I lived in the Avalon Phase 1 tower (pretty high up) and then in the midrise in Avalon Phase 2, and both the times I was facing King Street and the Caltrain depot. The points I want to make:
1) It’s fun living in the area as you can commute using Caltrain or Muni/Bart to most of the places in Bay Area (East/Valley).
2) It’s very convenient to catch a cab anytime of the day.
3) There’s always a police car right in front of the caltrain depot.
4) Safeway is very conveniently located.
5) Noise from the street or trains was never a problem (in the high rise or in the midrise where I was on the 4th floor and close to the street).
6) Ball games (including the phase when Barry Bonds was close to breaking the record) were “NEVER HELL”. You would only hit some delays driving into the city via 280 (traffic flow was usually well managed).
7) Lastly, I used to park in Lot A of the ball park (had a 24X7 permit) and never had my car broken into.
I think it is comparatively safe as compared to lot of other neighborhoods in the city and I was seriously considering buying a condo in the area (and still might). I think it’s very easy to hit all the hotspots in the city from this neighborhood either by Muni (Bus & Transit) or cab. Overall I would say it’s a nice neighborhood and I see it only improving from here on.
And now we’ll welcome comments from, or directed to, other readers who actually live (or have lived) in North Mission Bay. Care to share your experiences and perspective?
∙ The ClockTower Lofts (461 2nd Street) [SocketSite]
∙ An Overview Of Mission Bay [SocketSite]
∙ Evidence Of A Price Reduction At Arterra? [SocketSite]
I lived there for a year and worked in China Basin for a year. I thought it was ok, but on the weekends it felt like living downtown. A lot of the stores were closed and people weren’t really around. I’m sure it’s changed a lot in the last year or so. Having said all that, I did get my bike stolen (locked up and in broad daylight) and the window of my car smashed. I never felt unsafe though.
Although I don’t live in Mission Bay, I do live in the Rincon Hill area and do come down to Mission Bay a lot.
As others have stated before, some people probably do have stories of break-ins, but I don’t see this being a higher percentage than other areas. Heck, a friend of mine who lives in Cow Hollow tells me the same thing about her area.
In terms of amenities in the area, it definitely has changed. Yes, it still can be considered a little slow on weekends, as compared to the Marina, North Beach, Polk St, etc, but it has seen dramatic improvements. It could still use more, but I think that will come with time.
I think if you’re looking to have tons of bars and restaurants on a strip right outside your door, this may not yet be the location. However, the way I look at it is that most of the amenities that I need are within walking distance and on the rare occasion that I’m looking for more action, it is, like the article states, a short cab ride away.
Also, I should mention that nearly all the break-ins I’ve observed have been for one of two reasons:
1. People leave valuables (i.e. backpack, sunglasses, etc) in their car, which allows for easy pickings.
2. People leave very pricey cars (i.e. BMW, Porsche, Mazerati) on the street, rather than paying $250-300 per month for garage parking.
I think these break-ins could easily be avoided and are more associated with the stupidity of some people, rather than an indication of a dangerous neighborhood.
I’ve lived in Mission Bay since October 2003 when I bought a unit at the Glassworks and have been very happy with the neighborhood. Having come from the Marina there were many things I was accustomed to (restaurants, boutique shops, access to Marina Green, etc.) but loved the unit and liked the potential Mission Bay had.
It has been exciting to see Mission Bay “grow up”. My finace and I were filled with anticipation when we learned a sushi restaurant was opening at the Rich Sorros Commons building. We are equally excited to see the following merchants currently under construction: Burger Joint at the Beacon, spa place also at the Beacon, Philz Coffee at the Mission Bay Library, Panera Bread at Avalon II. Opinions aside about the quality of these merchants, it is nice to see Mission Bay’s development.
What I like about my location is the relatively easy access to the places I normally visit: Union Square, Ferry Building, restaurants in SOMA. On the occasions we decide to go the Marina, we do so on bike along the Embarcadero which is a beautiful ride on a sunny weekend morning.
Mission Bay may not be for everyone, but I’ve found a place to really enjoy.
I live at 4th and Brannan and really enjoy this area. I work deep in the financial district (almost North Beach) and it takes me no longer than 15 minutes to get to and from work. My family lives on the Peninsula and I like being close to the freeway to see them (not having to spend half my trip getting out of the City). There are plenty of amenities right outside my door and I’ll enjoy watching more restaurants and bars open over time. Every day I see more and more people walking the streets at nights and on weekends and this makes me feel good about the area (I bought my condo 1 year ago).
Although it is a little scary walking under the freeway at night, I don’t feel unsafe around my building. If you leave golf clubs in your back seat, you are just as likely to have them stolen on Mallorca in the Marina as you are on 4th St in SOMA.
I’ve lived in South Beach for almost a year now (short walk to Caltrain) and here are my observations:
1) Unless you are right outside of the Caltrain depot, it is really difficult to get a cab, ESPECIALLY if it is a Friday or Saturday night (then it’s nearly impossible).
2) The weather in this microclimate is usually better than the rest of city – warmer and more sun. This means that if your apt/condo complex has an outdoor pool, you’ll be able to use it more often than not.
3)While the area is certainly developing as we speak, it lacks the charm of many of the more established neighborhoods and often feels isolated and empty as you walk the super long blocks.
4)Having the Embarcadero nearby is a giant plus. This waterfront stretch is an excellent place to jog/walk the dog/sit down and get some sun and people watching.
5) Gobs and gobs of mass transit. Light rail lines, 10/15/30/45 buses, Caltrain… You truely do not need a car to live in this neighborhood (I don’t)
6) Street parking sucks and overwhelmingly sucks on game days.
This area is long on potential with its proximity to downtown and the Bay Bridge/101. If you are willing to wait and let it grow for the next 5 years, you’ll have a genuine neighborhood to call home.
I’ve been renting on Townsend and Embarcadero for 3 years. I agree with all of Jordan’s points except for #6 — after game time spots open up and stay open all night. Parking is much easier than most other neighborhoods in SF east of GGP.
However, I’m not optimistic on the neighborhood ever getting any sort of SF character. Almost all the stores are chains and I don’t see anything besides a chain opening in the neighborhood, partly due to the costs and also due to cultural/demographic issues. I almost never shop in the neighborhood because I want to support local businesses and because I enjoy the unique experiences they provide. South Beach isn’t really any different than South Bay, or Phoenix, or Santa Monica, etc.
Since I’m always leaving the neighborhood I bought a place at The Hayes where I won’t have to deal with cabs or MUNI nearly as much — lots of unique stuff is in walking distance. Taking a cab or MUNI is much easier being on Market/Van Ness.
“However, I’m not optimistic on the neighborhood ever getting any sort of SF character. Almost all the stores are chains and I don’t see anything besides a chain opening in the neighborhood, partly due to the costs and also due to cultural/demographic issues.”
I disagree very strongly with this statement. I in the past year, such local restaurants/bars as Tres Agaves, Nama and District have opened up and I see more coming as the area continues to increase its population. This is not even taking into account other restaurants/bars/shops that are within a couple blocks away near South Park and other ones that are due to open soon (Burger Joint, Philz Coffee, etc). Sure, chains will remain, but you’ll also see a lot more local businesses. I personally prefer the variety and amenities….you don’t see that in Hayes Valley.
My running route frequently takes me into the area for lunchtime & evening runs during the week, or afternoon runs on weekends. My observation from having to dodge people on the sidewalks, is that – strangely – it seems King St has the least people and, yet, that is where the residences, eateries, etc. are. Townsend & Brannan seem to have more pedestrians. (The exception, of course, being game days). King St is also a wind tunnel in the afternoon & evening.
I lived in Avalon at Mission Bay (phase I) for a year, in the little-known lofts (the unit actually had a private entrance onto Berry street). On more than one occaison, I found a drunken baseball fan pissing DIRECTLY ONTO MY FRONT DOOR. Disgusting.
Speaking of baseball games, you pretty much give up the neighborhood to suburbanan idiots three times/week during the season. They are crowded onto the N-inbound trains, which is obnoxious if you’re trying to get home from the financial district after work. These people have apparently never been on a train before, so they fall all over each other at every stop.
The Safeway was very convenient, however, and I did enjoy running along the Embarcadero 2-3 times/week. There are so few parts of SF where you can run without being interrupted by traffic (outside of the Marina and GGP).
Getting around on transit was very frustrating. The N creeps along the Embarcadero, and then waits at the Embarcadero/Folsom portal for track switching (sometimes nearly 5 minutes). In the end it would take 15-20 minutes just to get to Montgomery station.
This neighborhood really makes sense for people who work on the peninsula, don’t eat out very much, and don’t mind driving everywhere around SF on the weekends.
“Although I don’t live in Mission Bay, I do live in the Rincon Hill area and do come down to Mission Bay a lot.”
My qualifications are the same as the person above. I’m in North Mission Bay all the time.
Same thing goes for me as far as the petty crime thing. However, my biggest complaint has to be, and there’s really no way of getting around it, what the area is like during baseball season when the Giants are playing a game. I just want to be as far away from that area as possible while a game is going on because you have the choice of either getting in your car and facing unbelievably horrible traffic or using your feet and then having to deal with a combination of the scalpers on every street corner (oh, excuse me, the people that “need” tickets) and the drunken people walking around yelling out and acting like complete fools.
There is just no way I could ever get used to that. I have friend that lives in a great condo in Chicago right by Wrigley field and she says that it’s an absolute mad house when the Cubs play at home, but it doesn’t bother her. In fact, she even rents out space in front of her condo during the season for to people to park that are going to the game. If I were a resident of North Mission Bay and could make money off of having to deal with the annoyance of what occurs during the Giants homes games, that would be one thing, but until that happens, I would never move to that area.
You just sort of have to either deal with it or move.
I live in Avalon Phase II (the tower directly across from cal tran) and love it. The N can be a little unreliable and I have not lived there during a BB season, but overall it is great. The weather is much better than other parts of the city, there is tons of places to eat and drink within a short walk, the safeway is great, and like the park along the canal. Also, I fly model planes and have always had trouble finding a good place to fly, now I fly in the parking lot for the stadium just one block from my house.
I have, however, bought at the Infinity and can’t wait to move there where there are better restaraunts and more to do.
“I almost never shop in the neighborhood because I want to support local businesses and because I enjoy the unique experiences they provide.”
I couldn’t agree more. I totally wish that the area had more of a Polk Street feel to it, but I just don’t see that ever happening. I love the area and I don’t plan to leave any time soon, but I do have to say that it’s looking for and more like “urban suburbia” as time goes on (I know that’s an oxymoron but you get my drift).
“I have, however, bought at the Infinity and can’t wait to move there where there are better restaraunts and more to do.”
Tom, I also live in Avalon II and bought at Infinity.
Yes I agree with Safeway, muni, caltrans, etc the location is very convenient but Infinity’s location has better restaurants, the waterfront, Ferry building etc…
“I disagree very strongly with this statement. I in the past year, such local restaurants/bars as Tres Agaves, Nama and District have opened up and I see more coming”
OK, I guess that’s an issue of personal taste — those are not places I go to, or plan to (Tres Agaves is very much a chain BTW). And Safeway is only a last resort. Unless I have no time at all I’ll ride to Rainbow, Golden Produce or even Whole Foods instead of stopping at Safeway after I get off the CalTrain. Philz will be a welcome addition to the neighborhood, but I seriously doubt it’ll have the character of his other two locations.
I also think the hassle of game days is very much overstated by some. In my three years here I haven’t had a bad experience with fans or crowds besides it taking slightly longer to get where I’m going at times. The scalpers are totally a plus because I can stroll outside at 7:30 on a whim and get good seats for $5. ;^) And I’m not even a sports fan.
“I also think the hassle of game days is very much overstated by some. In my three years here I haven’t had a bad experience with fans or crowds besides it taking slightly longer to get where I’m going at times. The scalpers are totally a plus because I can stroll outside at 7:30 on a whim and get good seats for $5. ;^) And I’m not even a sports fan.”
Man, talking about picking out drop of liquid gold in sh__ storm. Gdog, you are definitely a silver lining type of person.
I guess it’s just a level of tolerance thing that varies from person to person. I’ve lived in the immediate area for 3 baseball seasons now and I absolutely hate it when the Giants are at home.
Don’t like the baseball crowd? What?! that’s like saying you moved into fishermans wharf or union square, but hate the tourists. The big part of the character of N MB is the ballpark. It’s one of the catellus that started the darn area. If it really bothers you then you bought/rented in the wrong place.
Btw. Whole foods on Harrison should trade places with the Safeway. How did Wholefood miss out on that location, dang? Too bad the Tower Records outlet closed on 3rd.
Mission Bay residents will have the option of the Potrero Hill Whole Foods soon.
Guys,
I have been living at the Avalon for about 6 months now (facing king st) & I love this neighborhood with all the new development wide roads, easy access to 280, caltrain, muni & the T line its gets busy during the game but doesn’t spill over at this end much. Infact I have decided to buy a unit at Arterra its ‘green’ & plan to live here for the next few years.
Whole Foods & or Trader Joe will be a good addition to the neighborhood!
“Trader Joe will be a good addition to the neighborhood”
Is this true or just a rumor and, if true, when and where is it expected to open?
I love Trader Joe’s.
Where are they planning on opening another Trader Joe’s? I haven’t heard anything about that.
[Editor’s Note: We have a funny feeling that “Whole Foods & or Trader Joe will be a good addition…” comment should probably have read “Whole Foods & or Trader Joe would be a good addition…”]
“[Editor’s Note: We have a funny feeling that “Whole Foods & or Trader Joe will be a good addition…” comment should probably have read “Whole Foods & or Trader Joe would be a good addition…”]”
Ahhhhh….thanks for the clarification. That’s a shame. I would love for a TJ’s to open in Mission Bay. It seems like now the area has the requisite population density to merit such a move.
Trader Joe’s on Ninth Street has been conducting a zip code survey…..
So how can I and others get onto the survey? Through their website?
That this has degenerated into a “ooOOooh can we get a TJs closer to South Beach than 9th & Brannan?” discussion speaks volumes as to why I’m leaving South Beach for Hayes Valley. ;^)
“That this has degenerated into a “ooOOooh can we get a TJs closer to South Beach than 9th & Brannan?” discussion speaks volumes as to why I’m leaving South Beach for Hayes Valley. ;^)”
I disagree. It would be one thing if we were saying how can we Safeway or Costco or Target or Wal-mart to come to Mission Bay.
But TJ’s? Come on, get real. What about Rainbow Grocery? Would that make South Beach too “commercial” for you as well?
“But TJ’s? Come on, get real. What about Rainbow Grocery? Would that make South Beach too “commercial” for you as well?”
My point is that San Francisco is one of the few cities in the US with such a unique character that if you hypothetically get teleported to a random intersection you’ll immediately know you’re in SF. In South Beach, unless you’re allowed to run around the corner to check for a Bay Bridge or something, being able to pass the “in SF test” is not so easy. Having a Trader Joes on the corner will not provide a helpful visual hint (great store, I shop there in Virginia too). Same with Kingfish, SuperCuts, Paragon, Borders, etc. I really don’t see places like Bazaar Cafe, Tunnel Top, Ritual Roasters, Don’t Call it Frisco Landromat, Get Lost Books, Sushi Zone, Rainbow etc. opening in this neighborhood, and even if they did they’d be in a generic ground level retail shell. If you’re going to live in SF, why not a part that’s not like other cities? Personally, that’s where I like to hang out. Seems to me purchasing in a differentiated “SF Classic” neighborhood will ease resale too.
“If you’re going to live in SF, why not a part that’s not like other cities? Personally, that’s where I like to hang out. Seems to me purchasing in a differentiated “SF Classic” neighborhood will ease resale too.”
Gdog, that’s fine that you prefer one of those classic SF neighborhoods. I for one find them charming, but prefer living in the modern-looking environment and living in a newer building, with all of the amenities that I’ve come accustomed to while living different cities. I don’t want to live in an old-decripid Edwardian, where the floors squeak, the carpet smells of mildew and the insulation is so poor that you can hear everything going on outside on the street as well as what your neighbors are doing. Sure, I enjoy an evening strolling Fillmore, Union, or Chestnut, but I also like to come home to my modern amenities. I also like having all of the modern stores at my fingertips, because I don’t feel the need to try too hard to be different by only frequenting local establishments.
I do agree that South Beach can use more local establishments to complement the current chains, but I see these coming with time.
My point is…
Sorry, I read through your post twice and still don’t get it.
“My point is…
Sorry, I read through your post twice and still don’t get it.”
I’ll second that. Huh?
“I’ll second that. Huh?”
I think South Beach is like any other city in the US. Most of the rest of SF is not like any other city in the US. I prefer having the unique part of SF outside my door, which is why I’m moving out of South Beach. Prevalence of chain stores and formula restaurants is one factor that makes South Beach not very unique.
“I don’t want to live in an old-decripid Edwardian,”
There is new construction outside of South Beach.
Having read through the body of comments, I feel the need to add my two cents – I’ve lived in the area for 3+ years: first at Avalon Mission Bay I (18 months), then 255 Berry (18 months), and then bought a place at 200 Brannan in Nov 06.
The first point I’ll make is that I consider South Beach (which I am trying to start a grassroots campaign to call it South END since there’s already a famous place called South Beach and the signs around call it “South End Historic District”) and North Mission Bay 2 different neighborhoods. Personally, I find South End more charming and authentic then No. Mission Bay. While it’s certainly not Marina / Pac Heights / Russian Hill, I think that the combo of the waterfront and the brick warehouses give it an authentic feel. There are plenty of local shops like Town’s End Bakery, Crossroads, 21st Amendment, and stuff in South Park. I did like No. Mission Bay, but it was a little “urban surburbia” like one of the previous posters said. My wife and I were trying to decide between 200 Brannan and a new place at 310 Townsend – we ended up choosing 200 Brannan over 310 Townsend because we were turned off by the location right across from the train station and the lack of charm in that part of the neighborhood. I had high hopes for the King St area but it doesn’t seem to be taking off like everyone had anticipated.
Bottom line for me – I think the whole area has a lot going for it, including the quick access to the freeway, abundance of necessities (grocery, Walgreens, etc), and good weather. I’m much happier in South End because I think it has more of that distinctive San Francisco authenticity to it, plus it’s closer to downtown, the Ferry Building, and Telegraph/North Beach.
looks like arterra is ending the 2 yrs free HOA, washer & dryer deal.
http://arterraproperties.com/blog/
Yeah right, when they don’t make their target for the quarter I’m sure it will be extended.