2140 Market Street Site

Plans to raze the iconic little building currently occupied by the Lucky 13 bar at 2140 Market Street, and its adjacent patio and parking lot, have been submitted to San Francisco’s Planning Department.

And as proposed, a five-story building with 31 condos over 1,200 square feet of ground floor commercial space, and no off-street parking, will rise across the Market Street site.

Plans to raze the bar and construct a three-story building, with 28 condos over 3,000 square feet of ground floor commercial space and an underground garage for 28 cars, had been drafted back in 2002, but those plans were subsequently abandoned, in part because the existing building is a historic resource.

We’ll keep you posted and plugged-in as the new plans evolve.

UPDATE (3/13):  The draft design for the proposed building to rise on the site.

156 thoughts on “Lucky 13 Likely To Be Razed For 31 Condos To Rise”
  1. It’s about time this love shack + lot was identified to be razed!!!…let’s build build build!!!

    1. You are the type of [person] that longtime residents despise. This city was full of character and charm and now it is quickly turning into a city of square condos that are so ugly and have drawn rent up to an ridiculous level. And why. To line the pockets of assh*les like you and to accommodate the techies that couldn’t get laid if their life depended on it. This city has been destroyed. Thanks you [Removed be Editor]

      1. Do you even hear yourself? It’s people like you — conservative NIMBYs, afraid of change, that’s stuck in the past and blocking innovation and progress. Why don’t you go live back to 1920s if you love prehistoric SF so much. Techies driving up the rent? Please… Go take some Econ 101 classes before pointing fingers. Our zoning laws need to be changed, and we need to build MORE.

        1. Lulzzzz… $50 bucks you are a white man who moved here in the past 5 years. Remind me why any of us should listen to you opinion?

          1. Why not have a Win-win situation? Build those condo and keep the current lease for the bar for another 10 years!! Developer makes money, bar owner got upgraded space w/ geeky alcoholic techies who live right upstairs. #awesome? Yeah?

          1. That would be better than what they’re talking about. Keep History and add something new, make everyone happy. But, there are those that don’t care of everyone’s happiness, just their own, they are called greedy, money hungry bitches!! Let’s hope for a happy ending to this story!! One last thing, no off street parking? Will the new plan have parking for tenants, or are they planning on building a parking lot that costs $30 a day or $5 an hour. Parking is important for business!! So now what?

    2. The next sound you hear will be SF’s soul being sucked into the vacuum of of space. The City by the Bay is quickly losing all its charm thanks to all the new money. The Gatzby’s are moving in and all the character that defined this great town is being pushed out.

      1. Tell me about it. Yerba Buena used to be a wholesome community of just a few hundred people. Next thing you know every Tom, Dick and Mary with a pick axe is moving in trying to make a quick buck, completely destroying the character and community that the residence loved and enjoyed for decades, Oh what a travesty!!! They turned it into some freak show called San Francisco.

  2. Damn, that’s my favorite bar.

    I’ll dream up something to stop this – it is a historical building, this will remove a popular venue for seniors and the disabled, this will adversely impact racial minorities, this will increase economic inequality, this will disturb a native american graveyard, this will impede bicycle traffic, this will lead to a rise in naziism. Now things have gone too far.

    1. don’t forget that a five story building would be too tall for San Francisco and would cast children in perpetual shadow.

      1. Thanks — have added that to my objection. And your addition reminded me about the wind tunnel effect that will add to global climate change. And this will also displace the homeless. I should be able to at least tie this up in planning and then the courts for years (took friends of mine 7 years to get through the process to add a garage, I kid you not).

          1. and don’t forget the sacred vacant lot. It made such a nice needle park during the glory days of 1976!

            If only we could return to the REAL glory days thought. San Francisco had all this open space and quaint and authentic adobe buildings and shacks back in the 1850s. Everyone who moved here after that point is just a carpetbagger who has ruined, ruined I tell you, this unique little penninsula!

      1. That’s the chump’s route! Why do that when I can just tie up the process for years with endless objections and appeals and not spend a dime except for copier paper?

    1. Very hard to argue for preserving a single-story use on Market, but – this is definitely another in a series of very quirky S.F. storefronts that will be replaced with yet more bland plate glass and brushed aluminum mulliions.

      1. Yeah I totally support building more housing in SF, we need it, but there should be more attention given to storefronts in new buildings. We want housing AND lively streets.

        1. All new ground floor retail is so expensive that only businesses that have high priced low volume high margin sales can afford them. The market will not allow lively streets.

    1. This is simply false. and you should probably go there before you pass judgment. Lucky 13 is one of the best dives in the bay area with a great beer selection. There is a reason they get 2 full kegs of Pliny the Younger.

  3. HA! First job in town at that place. Let’s just say pastels were in. And Church Street Station was still open. It made for a great pie-to-go-stop (2am) after work. It was a entirely famous gay bar, Alfies, in the 70’s. The place will have a certain karma: I don’t know that I’d want to live on top of that thing even if I had the $$$.

  4. I went here for the first time the other night… I was surprised of how much of an old school sh!t hole it actually was. Definitely not my vibe, but kind of sad to see these old poo shacks get torn down. THOUGH, the less there are, the more important they become.

    1. Yeah. This place may not be great but at least it isn’t tapioca. I’m in favor of retaining the texture of what makes San Francisco unique.

      That seems to be lost in the constant cries of “more market-rate housing” and “build higher”, as well as the anti-preservationist snark found in comments here.

        1. Read my comment again. I expressed certain preferences. I didn’t tell anyone what to do. I was born in San Francisco and have lived here my entire life. San Francisco and Sausalito are next door to each other and I consider San Francisco to be my city too.

          Anyone who lives in or near San Francisco has a stake in the future of this city.

      1. So how to you propose that we keep the prices affordable for artists and eccentrics while at the same time not building a lot more housing, when living in the city is in such demand.

        Things are going to change. That’s a given. We only get some choice as to how.

        1. If most of what you are building is million-dollar investment condos, that not only does that not keep prices affordable for artists and eccentrics, but it actually makes ALL housing more expensive. Housing supply and demand is far more complicated than the simplistic models business students learn in Econ 1. Unfortunately, because those inaccurate models justify the activities of the FIRE sector (i.e. the extractive economy, who make their money off of and at the expense of the productive economy), the ubiquitous but erroneous S&D models are always invoked – without challenge — to justify builbuilbuild.

          It’s nonsense, and you learn why when you get`to second year econ, but not many people get to second year econ.

          1. two beers. some of us have advanced degrees in economics and statistics and actually teach this stuff. what you’re saying is flat out wrong . the model does apply to housing and housing in SF. The biggest problem here is that demand (especially at the high end) far far outweighs supply. on the theoretical side, the model is solid for this.

            On the practical side, for all intents and purposes you are partially right. We were never outbuild the pent-up demand because 1) theres jsut too much demand now and in near future 2) most people in SF dont want 50,000 new units in the next 3-4 yrs because it is perceived to negatively affect their QOL. and 3) the Board of Supervisors are a bunch of idiots who only pander for votes

            Where you are wrong is that building higher end housing increases prices. The prices would increase regardless because wealthy people a will buy lower quality if its the only thing available. the real disconnect in SF versus other areas is that the cost and quality of building materials has very little effect on price. Its all about demand, and as long as that demand is coming from wealthy people, prices will remain high. Building BMR housing is probably the only way that lower middle class and poor people will ever be able to afford to buy in SF, so its good to do to some extent (although thinking of housing as regional is smarter: i.e vallejo, fremont, etc like others have mentioned). But it is a fact that building more BMR housing will increase the prices of market rate housing by further resticting supply.

      2. Don’t get me wrong, I think there is plenty of room for “tear this down, for better that” but, still think there is an opportunity for some more “realistic” preservation of certain structures & establishments for cultural purpose. We just need a system that effectively defines that.

        1. I might even agree with you, but how do we pay for it? Should someone have to operate a bar because we decide it’s historic? We just cost them a ton of money on their property and are now telling them what to do with it. That would be insane, but that’s the only way to prevent change. So if we want the city to operate public bars in the same way it operates museums, preservation might make sense. But otherwise, things will change.

          1. One way is by changing some of the building code. All the new ground-floor commercial spaces are the same, wide and not deep, with floor-to-ceiling glass. Change the code to encourage uses such as neighborhood watering holes, or other entertainment uses (such as dance clubs, a few months ago people here were arguing about the loss of dance clubs South of Market). Do a dance club on the ground floor, a level of parking above for sound separation, and then residential above that. No one is doing anything unique like that, and I’m not even sure that the code would allow it.

          2. Western SOMA proposed just that, to activate the industrial areas at night with entertainment uses during the day, but then Rose and Willie saw money in the Central Subway so Planning is rezoning for high margin office and condos.

    1. One property owner is doing what’s in their best financial interest. How would you change things so that this doesn’t happen?

  5. *sniff*

    I love this bar. One of my ‘hood stop-bys. Alas, we have to make sacrifices for housing. Too bad they can’t roll the Lucky 13 building into the mix. The mash-up is amusing.

  6. What you boring idiots from the tech industry don’t understand is that every place like this is a little bit of the culture and history of San Francisco. Not every person here likes generic yuppy bars with expensive drinks made by asshat “mixologists.” Places like Lucky 13 are why people come to San Francisco. They’re quirky, they’re wacky. When all these are gone and replace with ticky-tack condos, who will come? And why? You’re literally destroying the very reason people like this city.

      1. A million times, this!!! The techies come here for jobs and because this is a great place to live. Housing prices go up. So business owners can make more money selling to developers. If we want to stop this, what are we going to pay the business owner to stay in business?

        1. exactly right. No one if forcing the owner to sell.. if you want to blame someone, blame the owner

          1. I once talked to a taxi driver. She said she was being forced out of the house she has owned for the last 30 years. I asked her to explain by “forced out.” What she meant was that her neighborhood had changed, because there were a lot of 50 and 60 year old people who had been her community. As they neared retirement age, they had a city pension or whatever and realized that their house was worth a million dollars. So they sold and moved to Florida or Arizona. I asked about her house and she said someone had offered her 1.4 million for it but she didn’t want to leave. I pointed out to her that she isn’t powerless and that actually, she is rich. She’s working 12 hours a day driving a cab and is sitting on a 1.4 million dollar asset but she’s feeling forced out because her neighborhood is changing. She cold move anywhere in the country, she and her husband can both work part time in jobs they enjoy, and she can live upper middle class for the rest of her days. I had a hard time feeling bad for her.

    1. “Places like Lucky 13 are why people come to San Francisco.”

      Speak for yourself. People come here for many different reasons. 1) the job market is hot 2) can gt involved in technology that can change the world. 3) can get involved in biotech and research that can change the world 4) work, research or school at top insititutions such as UCSF, berkeley and stanford. im not sure what the breakdown is of who comes for what, but i would imagine many more people have come over the past 5 yrs for professional reasons than for the bar scene.

      I’m 41, have lived here since 21, (although lived in 3 other areas for 1 yr stints during that time) and I personally havent been to a bar here in more than 7yrs (unless you count live music venues). There are other people who come here for the outdoor activities. there are only a handful of cities that have 1st class road and mountain biking on both the penisula and marin, access to nice surf, access to beautiful hiking trails and beaches, short drive to skiing. Other people come because SF has the best weather of any major city. Another reason is because its the most beautiful city in the US. My personal reasons were professional and the outdoors. The best choices for my profession were NYC, Boston and here. the Quality of life and outdoor activities are far superior to the other places. I cant imagine more than a very small % come here for “places like lucky 13”

      1. “I cant imagine more than a very small % come here for “places like lucky 13″

        Yes, but they are legends in their own mind and shout the loudest and if you dispute anything they say you are automatically accused of being a fascist/racist/gentrifier/whatever

      2. Tech that can change the world? Meanwhile, MUNI runs on an automatic train control system from the 70s. Cell reception in the MUNI tunnel is non existent.

        I’ve been here 15 years…and lived in both DC and NYC for an extensive time as well. SF is only the most beautiful place if you look out over the Bay or the Golden Gate from atop a hill, office building, or luxury high rise condo. If you look down you will find a disgusting homeless/drug/pandhandling problem, a half-baked transit system, litter and filth on many streets, and a crumbling infrastructure.

        Even if you’re here for professional reasons, you still have a personal life. Ten years ago the East Village became a draw for young, “hip” finance/banking folks who loved the neighborhood grit, cool bars, eclectic stores and restaurants. Now they bemoan the loss of these elements after the businesses were priced out.

        Also, your references point north, east and south outside of SF proper. If you’re stuck in traffic commuting to your biotech job 2 hours each way, you’re really not going to have much of a chance enjoying all the “beauty” SF has to offer.

        1. “Tech that can change the world? Meanwhile, MUNI runs on an automatic train control system from the 70s. Cell reception in the MUNI tunnel is non existent.”

          big difference between private enterprise and govt. I agree with you that the the city govt is stuck in the 70s and the transportation sucks and homeless problem is terrible. there is a different level of intelligence, innovation and hard work in private enterprise. city employees are undereducated, underworked , overbenefitted and overpaid.

          i dont know anyone commuting from the city 2 hrs each way. 90% of biotech jobs are in South San Francisco, which is a 30 minute commute or less from most of the city. those commuting to tech via tech buses is longer, but they ahve time to have dinner in SF and al weekend for outdoor activities and nightlife.

        2. Hey, ex East Villager here. Lived there for years and I still consider it one of my fave places in the world. Yup, the EV has gentrified–to an extent. But the Ukrainians and Poles in the ‘hood who OWN their buildings in which they run their businesses or live haven’t left. They haven’t cashed out and stayed put and continue to thrive, with some restaurants, bars, and businesses operating for DECADES. And in fact they have built new buildings there on land they redeveloped. It’s their choice, just like the choice of any OWNER.

          In SF there seems to be some massive cognitive inability among some people to accept the concept of OWNERSHIP. If you rent you’re always vulnerable. It’s still unclear to me from media coverage if the Lucky 13 bar operator OWNS his building or just rents it. If he owns, he’s free to cash out just like the Lexington Bar gal did, despite all the political posturing by here and the invective directed at “tech.” And by the way, the EV is still quite fabulous despite the inroads, more so from NYU than from “finance/banking folks.”

      3. Used to go to Lucky 13 a lot when I was younger. Now I’m 41, and don’t go out as often. I changed, I aged.
        Could it be the reason you haven’t been in a bar in 7 years moto mayhem?
        Still, it’s sad to see Lucky 13 go. It is a great bar. Darn those kids, and their need for lodging!

      4. Bah. Seattle is the most beautiful city in the US, has a mild climate with weather a lot like what the San Francisco and Berkeley area was like 40 years ago, has gorgeous mountains to ski, hiking trails, bike lanes and bike friendliness, amazing ecological infrastructure for its residents, plenty of great saltwater and freshwater for boating, sailing, kayaking, some fantastic houseboats, much shorter distance to skiing than from San Francisco, a tech mecca, terrific schools and universities, world-class hospitals, specialty care, and healthcare research, vibrant LGBTQI community, national parks within easy access with as much or as little development as you like, AND the best football team in the NFC West, the Seattle Seahawks.

        1. Have been to Seattle literally a half-dozen times with the presumption that I’d fall in love with it, because on paper it’s perfect for me. I even have really close friends living there. But each time, within a day or two I can’t stand it. Even more difficult to get around than S.F., thanks to being a narrow and congested isthmus; moldy and damp and grey grey grey; and in many areas a sort of run-down feelling that reminds me of the South. It’s very odd, becuase I do love everything *around* Seattle – Mt. Baker, Port Townsend, Hood Canal, etc. – the environs are incredibly appealing, but the city itself to me has never clicked. Just my personal 2 cents, not trying to impose my views on others.

          1. Agree. I grew up near Portland, went to college up to Seattle. I found Seattle much less walkable than SF with fewer interesting neighborhoods. Easy day trips to ski were nice, but overall, it doesn’t compare to living in SF. Mainly, the consistent rain gets to you. One winter in college, it rained more than 6 out of every 7 days, and non-rainy days were still overcast. A lot of people have to buy special lamps in order not to get depressed.

      5. You are obviously a yuppie scum then. 20 years is not a long enough period if one is not of the noble oppressed but loud castes!

  7. This is the worst news. Cheep beer and pinball with punk music blaring has been my Saturday nights for god knows how long. This f*cking sucks.

  8. I really hope this place stays. I frequently stop here for a pint or four. Its divey because thats what people want there. To knock it down for some more over priced, luxury-lite condos is a travesty. Oh I cant forget about the commercial space, let me guess, another coffee shop, or maybe another bar will take up that space. You know yet another craft cocktail bar with $12 brussels sprout bites.

    This town needs an anema!

  9. What, no argument about whether the project should include parking?

    I’d like to see a comparison of the two proposed designs. With only 1200 square feet of ground floor commercial space instead of the 3000 square feet of the first plan, what will the rest of the ground floor be used for?

    This was a gay country western bar for about two years in the 90’s. Can’t remember the name.

    Then it was called Expansion (foreshadowing?) and was a straight dive bar from 2000 or thereabouts until the name changed to Lucky 13. The current incarnation is a little too self-aware of its diveyness to be an authentic dive.

    1. The Expansion was three doors down Market St. That place ruled. Filled with dirty old men and pool sharks.

      Lucky 13 has been there since the early 90s. I don’t know when it opened, but I found it in 1994.

    2. actually the Expansion bar existed where Blackbird is now. Lucky 13 has been in that space (and with that name) since at least 1996 and I spent many many gin-soaked nights there in the late 90s. I love that it basically hasn’t change a bit, though the sign out front is a bit more prominent than it used to be. I consider it a relic of the 90s….and aren’t the 90s back now?

    3. Lucky 13 has been a number of gay bars since the early 70’s. Here’s a list I found from a LGBT Preservation Group:

      The Log Cabin (1970–1972)
      Mind Shaft (1972–1977)
      Alfie’s (1977–1983)
      Prism (1984–1985)
      2140 Market (1985)
      Industrial Dance
      Company (1985–1986)
      High Chaparral (1986)
      Corral (1990)

      Among the important events that took place here: the victory party that marked Harvey Milk’s election to the San Francisco Board of Supervisors in November 1977.

      The place has history.

  10. Yeah, I’ll miss L13 too. Toronado-lite with pinball, pool, popcorn, and patio. This leaves Zeitgeist as the last reasonably priced craft beer bar in the area with an outdoor patio. There are plenty of other places to get tasty ales but I don’t want to pay $9 for a tiny pour of some twee gose.

    (Fluj – this is your cue to berate those bars with a condescending remark)

    1. the brilliant refinement of my taste buds is practically visible outwardly, as an aura, a shining beacon. mere internet flames are nothing when it comes to the awesome power of my beer palate. no, i talk to you when you say things that are wrong. not infrequently, but not often. now run along and continue to dream of me.

        1. sure thing dude. why would a guy like me dislike the Lucky 13 anyway? been going there since ’95. This seems like a bummer. I agree that SF is losing some interesting old school places. But there are still many, many great watering holes.

          1. Many great watering holes indeed. Heck, a lot within spitting distance of this one.

            But none that serve Pliny on tap for $5. Where you don’t have to elbow through a crowd to get a pint. Where they play great music. That’s why I’m crying about this one.

    2. Whoa what hold up. You would not think Fluj would berate those bars if you actually knew him. He has spent a ton of times in those bars. We lived in the lower haight in the mid 90’s.

  11. Why not build the condo and have a space on the ground floor for Lucky 13? Why does everything have to be so divisive? This choose up sider bullsh!t is what is killing this town – not development. Surely the smarties in charge can figure this out. Besides it’s a great bar!

  12. Agreed – Lucky 13 has been there as long as I’ve been around (94?). I don’t think it was meant to be a dive bar in the 90s, it was just a bar. That’s what bars looked like before mixology, hipsters, and millenials existed.

  13. Only been to this place a couple of times, and liked it both times, but it adds color and character for a drive or walk along Market fo sho.

    It’s just another nail in the coffin. Or Brick in the Wall.

  14. I’m 65, live in Vancouver BC and go to the 13 whenever I’m in SF, which is 1-2 times a year, and it’s really sad to see your city stumbling haphazardly into bland modernity. Oh wait, just like Vancouver….

  15. Not the lucky 13, whenever I come to SF i hit this bar up say hi to the bar back Pappy and have a PB&J then talk punk bands and history with all bartenders and other patrons. This is by far my favorite and only bar that I feel most comfortable going to and having a drink at.

  16. Like SF, this site is now frequented by more and more soulless minions.

    [Editor’s Note: Feel free to lead by example rather than throwing jabs. As our audience continues to grow (we reached over half a million people last year), so will the range of readers’ opinions and comments.]

    1. can you define what “having a soul” means in your book? does being educated and hardworking and making good money mean you don’t have a soul?

    2. Matt in Uptown, you forgot to tell everyone how awesome Uptown is while you bashed SF this time. Because what Uptown has become is of course universally loved by older Oakland residents with deep roots, and you are utterly without any hint of hypocrisy.

    3. I’d like to think I have a soul.

      But I know that by “soul” you are talking about quirky people like Anton LaVey.

  17. Why is this not a full 65 feet (max height for wood frame construction)? Complete waste. Part of the reason we have a housing crisis in SF is that everyone wants to “preserve” every single generic building in the city because of “neighborhood character”. And then everyone is shocked – SHOCKED – why housing is so expensive.

  18. Techies suck. They have ruined the city. Before the tech boom they were just the yuppie scumbags that lived in North beach. That bar SHOULD be a light left on to remind people what a great city SF used to be before theyruined it. They have plenty of housing in the north and south bays, downtown, and east bay.The reason they hate it is because they dont have overpriced drinks and a parking vallet out front to charge 25 bucks to park their Prius. The tech industry is simular to a cockroach. They need to be stamped out.

    1. It’s good to see the broad mindedness and tolerance that are the claimed vitues of San Francisco in all their glory.

      Stamped out! Comparing people to “cockroaches”.

      Bravo, mein herr, Bravo.

      *This thread is so sad someone had to Go Godwin!

    2. You really are hilarious. Do you really think so called “techies” dislike this bar? really? People from all walks of life enjoy all kinds of bars here and I’m sure the owner of the bar made more money off of techies than bitter renters like you. You probably assume the condos will be sold to them, but you have no one to blame but the owner of the building for selling it. Anyway, there are plenty of available retail spaces in town for him to move it to. Probably if he doesn’t look for another space, the owner of the bar just wants to retire or leave town.

  19. Do the majority of those of you who seem completely ambivalent actually even live in San Francisco? And if you do, did you just get transported here from some town that was mapped out in a conference room by another group of idiots without any imagination?

  20. I don’t have many pics from the 2140 Market Club period in my life, but i was reading an e-book the other day….Highway 71? Connor Croft? anyway, the protagonist had worked at a similar bar, around the same time; this was conveyed towards the middle of the book, if I recall correctly.

  21. Relax everyone. From the current Owner’s Facebook post:

    Hey everybody!
    Thank you very much regarding your concerns for the LUCKY 13!
    The possibility of the replacement of the bar with condos has been hanging over our heads since 2002.
    The building is actually a historical landmark and that makes it a little more difficult to demolish.
    At this point, plans are submitted and in the very, very early stages of any kind of decision or action.
    In the short term we are not going anywhere!
    Again, thank you so much for all your concerns and out pouring support.
    It means a lot to everybody at the Lucky 13.
    Keep your fingers crossed…

    “Good Work” socketsite lol

    1. Excellent! Looks like at least a few more years before I have to find a new favorite place to drink beer.

    2. “Thank You”

      The situation is exactly as we reported above, including the 2002 plans and the significance of the building being a historical resource.

      Projects take years to develop. And if you’d rather read about developments and happenings after the fact, rather than when they’re in the works and you can act, there are plenty of outlets that use press releases and “posts” as the basis of their reports.

  22. Another nail in the proverbial SF coffin.

    Techies suck. They have diluted the cool factor in this city to neat zero (to wit, they have no cool factor).. Wish they would all pack up and go live down in silly-cone valley where they can drive their dumb cars and gaze at their useless apps to their hearts content. Or Dallas.. or Kansas… this city used to have funk and class.

    1. since they are the drivng force behind the economy, they are probably not going anywahere. maybe you are the one who will have to move to get what you want. I

    2. Eh. The funk will survive and pop up in other places. But in the city center the replacement L13 will be signing a much more expensive lease which could preclude sub-$5 pints.

      Since the city tends to have a proclivity to create subsidized funk places, maybe they can offer the owners of L13 a new below market space when the time comes to demo the current building.

      Ironically multiple good taprooms have sprouted in Silicon Valley when just five years ago there was almost nothing.

      1. Yay Silicon Valley!

        I guess it’s OK to chip away at what makes this place special, since we have such a close substitute just 50 miles to the south.

        On second thought, San Francisco and San Jose increasingly have a lot in common…but it’s not they who are becoming more like us.

        Please cite *one* example of funk having been displaced in San Francisco in recent years and popping up elsewhere within the city. As your comment correctly states, the market does not support funk.

        1. What makes this place special is that it’s changed what makes it special every half generation or so. When we lose funk, we gain locally grown cheese and techies. In 20 years we will be bemoaning the loss of the techies due to some other great global change. It’s part of the fun of living in a city of less than a million that is a global trendsetter.

          1. SF has had locally grown cheese since the Spanish arrived with a herd of cattle in the 18th century. It was techies of the civil engineering kind that enriched and built SF into a modern city long ago, e.g. Hallidie, Sutro, O’Shaughnessy. Wonder what the engineering legacy of this era will be for the public benefit, more than smart parking meters I hope.

          2. High speed Internet, wireless, everywhere, too cheap to meter, will do fine, very fine.

        2. sausalito_res – Hmmmm … in recent years is a hard constraint. I was going to say that the demise of Potrero Brewing and Twenty Tank spawned a whole cluster of little microbreweries, but that’s too long ago.

          I think that the assertion about market forces is right. It is hard to reopen the same sorts of laid back operations at current rents. The re-pop of the funk is happening more often elsewhere in the bay area. The East Bay of course and a little surprising to find it in the South Bay too despite the fascination with “Ultra lounges” down there.

  23. Ha! moto mayhem sez maybe I’ll have to move to get what I want. Ha! I’m lucky — I already HAVE what I want. My house that oughta be worth $250k is “worth” a cool $2+ million. I worked hard and I retired early. I live here and love this place. I hate seeing all the cool people who weren’t quite as lucky, or perhaps as skilled as I am forced to leave, to be supplanted by all these boring replacement tech clones. Yes, your are right, there’s no fighting the rising tide of homogenization and mundane-afication of our town that’s going on at the moment.

    1. im not telling you to move to get what you want. you were saying tech people should leave and go to another city. you are the one complaining about the city changing. and i was responding to that. they have the same right to be here as you or anyone else. someone who moved here yesterday has the same rights as a 5th generation san franciscan.

      1. One might argue that someone who moved here yesterday should spend some time learning the values and ways of their adoptive community.

          1. Didn’t something like 25% of SF vote for George Bush? We aren’t as homogeneous as people like to think we are.

    2. Some of the mundane people I know are curing cancer.

      I get the feeling that some people commenting here have never actually talked to someone different than themselves. And I’m not talking about the techies.

  24. I doubt its change they are afraid of, change is immanent same as death. What people don’t like is those who are born and raised here, cannot afford to live here. Massive evictions including 98 year old ladies. A city who is eliminating it’s working class and middle class, its thriving hispanic neighborhoods are being devastated. 421 art and performance spaces evicted. Oldest black owned bookstore in the country, evicted. 76 year old Chinese couple and their 34 year old mentally disabled daughter, evicted. The castro neighborhood vanishes off the maps of Condo developers. The most expensive rent in the country is killing the city. No more grass roots business’s, no more independent book stores. The streets are full of packs of young boys, sporting their last app logo’s. Its pathetic really. Change is one thing, devastation of an entire city to make room for the erections of the tech industry is the truth.

    1. Don’t worry Madrone. The Market will make everything better. The Market always does. Unfettered property rights are the most important value. If you don’t own property, you have no rights.

  25. Brahman’s comment IS the problem “turning into a city of square condos that are so ugly and have drawn rent up to an ridiculous level” The nimby myth that building housing drives up rents is insane – the opposite is true but I know many people who believe this – when will people like Brahman realize that they have caused this problem?

    1. even if Brahman was correct (and I think more construction DOES have negative impacts on housing prices as long as the economy is so overheated that the market cannot really meet the demand of high priced newcomers) what is the era that we need to be emulating? every generation complains about the new housing, the new architcecture. every generation ruins the sacred city of the previous generation.

  26. It is obvious that things have changed a lot in SF but as far as I can tell young people without a lot of money move to Oakland now. The people who seem to be upset might also just be bitter because they are getting older and what is going on now in SF is a stark reminder daily. Being relatively poor and stuck in a rent controlled placed sounded by tech bros would suck. Other old people like me just have kids and don’t care about trivial things like fake dive bars.

    Also, just a note about dive bars. I moved to the Pennisula and went to a dive bar. I forgot that real dive bars are full of a mix of dangerous and depressing people after living in SF for 15 years

  27. It’s unfortunate that the loss of this historic resource precludes the possibility of anything similar ever taking its place at another location in the future. Why those eff are we so profoundly unable to see potential in the future ? SF is like an LP record with a scratch, never able to move forward, always replaying the past.

  28. FWIW the nieghbor to the right has let L13 use his backyard as their patio for many years free of charge. He’s one of the bigger landlord/developers in the City. We ain’t all bad….

  29. I’m pretty sure the owner of the Lucky 13 is the developer of the Linea Condos.

    Built an empire off punk bars; now that cat is getting his scratch.

  30. Well Sooprise sooprise sooprise!!!! Mud’s being slung here! People behaving online in a way that most would never think of doing in person. Not everyone, to be certain. Some people can remain rational.

    Personally I don’t like the direction the City is going in. San Francisco has been a place full of magic, eclecticism and beauty for a very long time. I see that being drained away. It’s sad but it is also a microcosm – if an extreme example – of what’s going on in the world at large. Hurtling toward oblivion is what I would call it. A headlong rush toward……what? Rents are high, we all know that. But the real thing that is happening is a cultural annihilation. Anyone who can’t see that, never will.

      1. It’s also my opinion that there is something more than a little zombie and brain dead like about the fact that now everyone basically stares into their mobile devices all the time – even when in each other’s company. That’s a personal, subjective viewpoint, but as SF is very much the center of this, I do think that there is a rapidly declining social and cultural capital in The City at the same time as its economic capital is, objectively increasing.

        Those that disagree probably see SF as some kind of Utopia right now. So it goes.

        But for those who disagree, and see the technology boom increasing cultural and social(!) capital,

        1. This isn’t just a SF phenomenon. I’ve seen the same thing all over the place including outside of CA.

          It is really funny to see a family of four dining at a restaurant and all four are pecking away at their phones instead of talking amongst themselves. Or maybe they are. “Mom! Billy keeps texting me the ‘pile of poo’ emoticon!

  31. /soapbox/

    Seriously, seriously.
    Vallejo needs help.
    Vallejo wants help.
    Vallejo wants YOU.

    Take a look down Georgia Street. Scroll around.

    This is the main drag that runs between Sonoma Boulevard and the Ferry Terminal. It is a cool downtown with a farmers market and a bunch of empty storefronts. Beautiful old buildings and, my god, so much space (retail, housing, commercial, industrial).

    Do you want to sell some handmade goods?
    Try out your restaurant/bar idea?

    I think you will find landlords willing to court anyone with a pulse rate over 30. I should be buying a dozen houses here (lots of people already have) but this continues to blow my mind as an opportunity for renewed community growth at affordable prices.

    Eventually the market will take care of this, and someone will figure our she can buy a house 10 blocks from the ferry for (way) less than $350K, have access to the FiDi via the boat when necessary and have a backyard and a cool downtown.

    I have this recurring dream of establishing a Mayflower Compact group of 20 and 30 somethings (what would you need, 5 families, 10?) who all wanted the reassurance of knowing other people, to take the leap. When it happens organically, this will be a great place. I know the hardest hurdle is the chicken and egg of improving schools and family-friendliness.

    You think San Francisco is becoming more boring and full of stuffy rich people? You’re right. The real Northern-California-interesting-life that people think that they will find, that people were finding and evolving in San Francisco from the beats onward? It’s not in San Francisco any more. Artists on a shoestring aren’t welcome here any more than they are any other high value urban center. You’ll find Kerouac, Jerry Garcia and every other spirit of that vein is building elsewhere. Culture moves.

    The question to be asking is, IMNSHO, where’s next?

    Hundred bucks per foot with an income unit.


    1. Yes. Downtown Vallejo also has a great stock of beautiful Victorians waiting for renovation. If I were a full time artist without the benefit of a rent controlled space I’d be out of SF and on to Vallejo, West Oakland, Richmond, etc. quickly. Vallejo does have its problems but so did the Mission not so long ago. Downside is the long commute to anywhere else in the Bay Area. It is not a good place if you’re working in tech.

      1. Closer to Napa, and to skiing in Tahoe (in the years that nature deigns to give us snow). Vallejo and Benecia were both early capitals of California, and to me they made a lot of sense in that regard – always thought it curious that San Francisco benefitted so much from the Gold Rush, because if you get off your ship here, you’re on a peninsula and still have to cross the bay – whereas if they’d sailed just a bit further to Vallejo or Benecia, they’d be that much closer.

        1. The only explanation is the shallowness of the bay. Ocean-going sailing ships (even with the drafts of 19th Century vessels) couldn’t go directly to east bay ports and instead made landing at what was to become SF. Only reason as to why Yerba Buena Cove ever became more than another seaside village like Sausalito.

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