As the sale of last year’s “$3 million San Francisco Dream House” closed escrow yesterday with a reported contract price of $2,300,000 for the 3,800 square foot Noe Valley home at 815 Alvarado, it’s a couple of plugged-in readers that quickly identify this year’s unidentified “Dream House” as 65 Mountain Spring Avenue up in Clarendon Heights.
Listed for sale at $3,950,000 last June, the list price for 65 Mountain Spring was reduced five times over the next four months before being withdrawn from the MLS in December last asking $2,775,000 for the 4,139 square foot (per its old listing) four-bedroom home.
Assuming at least 38,000 tickets are sold (which wasn’t the case last year), the grand prize winner of this year’s San Francisco Dream House Raffle will have the choice of the “$2.8 million” house or $1.4 million in cash.
Oh, and it’s not only its colors that appear to have been “touched up” in the dreamy raffle photo above versus its more realistic listing photo below:
∙ San Francisco Dream House Raffle: Photos | Floor Plans [sfraffle.com]
∙ Spoiler Alert: The 2010 “San Francisco Dream House” Is… [SocketSite]
∙ An Arts & Crafts 815 Alvarado By The Numbers In Noe [SocketSite]
∙ San Francisco’s “$3 Million” Dream House Returns Asking $2.595M [SocketSite]
∙ Noe’s “$3 Million Dream House” Drops To $2,325,000 [SocketSite]
Actually, the web site has kept the September price of 3.275M.
The last asking was documented by sfrenegade, and confirmed by a simple Google search that kept the price in the header (but not the content).
The NAR makes it hard to know what’s what by restricting access to previous listing prices. Redfin has the history of listings, but no figures. Very annoying. But what else is new…
[Editor’s Note: As written above, “withdrawn from the MLS in December last asking $2,775,000 for the 4,139 square foot (per its old listing) four-bedroom home.” The “per its old listing” refers to the square footage.]
Here is the before: http://www.mapjack.com/?fHzmWKDubFMD
Did Willie Brown remove Sutro Towen before his PSA?
SFLooking, accurately indeed 😉
Yes the Sutro Tower has been relocated last week to Mount Davidson. Go check it out. Rumor is the Armenian community is pretty upset about it with the giant awkward shadow it creates on the cross.
Maybe I’m naive, as I don’t live anywhere near Sutro Tower (nor do I have a view of it), but I actually think it’s one of the great (and greatly underappreciated) SF landmarks. I don’t think I’d mind living near it and have it be in my line of sight from my house.
How can anyone think that removing such a huge element of the neighborhood from that curbside photo is justified ?
The dishonesty of the listing agent is appalling but the lack of disciplinary action from the SFAR is far more disturbing.
[Editor’s Note: As written above, “it’s not only its colors that appear to have been “touched up” in the dreamy raffle photo above versus its more realistic listing photo below.”]
That’s pretty sleazy. But once the buyer sees it, the game is off anyway. People don’t buy from an MLS pic.
MUST HATE ON REALTORS
MUST HATE ON REALTORS
MUST HATE ON REALTORS.
God that is getting so old. The realtor, the MLS, and the SFAR didn’t hide the tower. It’s right there in the photos. The one with the tower is from the listing. The changed one is for the lottery.
the lack of disciplinary action from the SFAR is far more disturbing.
I just looked at the old MLS listing. They did not use that angle.
OK my bad. I just jumped to the conclusion that this was yet another photographic deceit.
On behalf of the SFAR I hereby thank you for your “My bad” + “parting shot” after that bit of fake moralizing.
haha, I deserved that 🙂
From the left side of the photo, you can see that they’ve moved the house much closer to ski slopes.
Here’s my comment from the other thread that lol referenced:
I thought the raffled place looked familiar. I detailed the price history of 65 Mountain Spring in an earlier thread:
https://socketsite.com/archives/2010/06/28_clarendon_behind_the_remodel_and_by_the_numbers.html
Oct 26, 2010 Price Changed $2,775,000
Sep 30, 2010 Price Changed $2,975,000
Sep 15, 2010 Price Changed $3,275,000
Aug 23, 2010 Price Changed $3,475,000
Aug 09, 2010 Price Changed $3,675,000
Jun 30, 2010 Listed $3,950,000
Posted by: sfrenegade at October 28, 2010 9:57 AM
One recently completed permit says “REMODEL 2 BATHS, MASTER AND GUEST BATH IN LIKE KIND. RAISE BEDROOM DOOR TO 6’8 AND CHANGE BATHROOMS DOORS” for $27,500. There’s another completed one for replacing a window in the MBR. There are two issued but uncompleted stucco repair and roofing permits from 2008.
The tax record says:
Beds: 4
Baths: 3.0
Finished Sqft: 3,513
Unfinished Sqft: –
Total Sqft: 3,513
Floors: 4
Does that mean the two half-baths were without permit, as was an additional 600 sqft?
The quoted price of $2.8M is less than the PPSF for 50 Mountain Spring assuming this house is 4100 sqft and 50 Mountain Spring’s square footage is accurate per tax records.
Posted by: sfrenegade at March 1, 2011 6:45 PM
I suspect the listing agent got tired of people showing up and objecting to the tower, so he or she probably left it in. They obviously made sure the tower was in the photo – it would have been easy to take the photo from a different angle to keep it out.
Note the fine print on the drawing:
If fewer than 38,000 tickets are sold by 5pm Friday June 24, 2011, the raffle will be held as scheduled, and prizes will be awarded as advertised with the exception that the Grand Prize Winner will receive a sum equal to 50% of the Net Raffle Proceeds, not to exceed $1,400,000. Net Raffle Proceeds will be divided equally between YBCA and the Grand Prize Winner based on YBCA accounting, which shall be final and conclusive with respect to the Grand Prize Winner. For these purposes “Net Raffle Proceeds” are defined as the balance of funds left after paying all other prizes, all raffle expenses and all expenses for the House.
Would you owe the IRS if you won and took the house, vs. the cash prize? If so, how much?
[Editor’s Note: Always follow the links: “At the time of closing, all federal and state income taxes based on the value of the House, a value of $2,800,000 will be due from the Grand Prize Winner….YBCA makes no guarantee that the Grand Prize Winner will be able to sell the House for the value of $2,800,000, nor is there any guarantee that the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) will accept that value of the house for the purpose of determining any income tax that may be due from the winner.”]
Thanks for clarifying, looks like I won’t be buying a ticket after all.
“…based on YBCA accounting”
I’d expect YBCA accounting to be similar to Hollywood accounting.
You also owe the IRS if you take the cash. So you really only get about 50% of the cash prize.
^ But at least you have cash to pay the IRS if you take the cash. If it’s not obvious, that’s why the house is a total red herring. How many people have hundreds of thousands sitting around to pay off the IRS.
“How many people have hundreds of thousands sitting around to pay off the IRS.”
You could get a loan secured by the house to pay taxes. Or sell the house. I think you’d come out ahead with the latter over taking $1.4mm in cash (for which you’d owe taxes).
Yes, you could sell the house, but then the timing becomes important. And the state of the market.
(As the $3 million dollar gift house proved…)
You could get a loan secured by the house to pay taxes.
You’re supposed to get a free house and the 2 things you end up with are a mortgage on 1/2 the inflated value of the property + a punitive property tax.
I’ll the cash thank you.
lol, you would just hire an appraiser (actually, two of them) and file that with the IRS to identify what the taxes are. You don’t need to take their valuation The other thing you could do is just turn around and sell it immediately because that would be the best appraisal of all.
If you take the 1.4, you have to pay taxes on it, so you net $700K.
If you sell the house, say for 2.3, your selling costs are $115K. I think you pay taxes on the whole 2.3, or 1.15. So you net 2.3-1.65 (taxes)-.115 (realtor costs) and the property taxes for say 3 months. I get 1.0281.
So you walk away from $300K if the home is worth 2.3.
Breakeven is somewhere south of 1.8
@tipster — Generally you owe taxes on the value of what you were given/earned regardless of what you sell it for later. I don’t know if there are special rules for RE, but generally the group running the contest will file a 1099-MISC for the amount won.
If you sold it immediately for a lower price then that would at least seem to give you grounds to challenge a previous higher tax valuation on the 1099. But the longer it sat, the greater the risk the IRS would want taxes paid on the original value.
You’d certainly want to consult a tax lawyer before trying this tack.
tipster, I hear you.
The big unknown is how much you can sell the house for.
Instead of giving away what many would consider a white elephant, they should give away a house 2/3 the value PLUS 1/3 in cash to cover taxes. Like a 1.5M Noe house and 750K in cash.
But these 1.5M houses do sell rather easily and do not need any help from a raffle to get buyer interest.
“grounds to challenge a previous higher tax valuation on the 1099”
There isn’t a “previous tax valuation” just because some charity inflated the value of a prize. I’m sure the IRS sees that all the time.
And pulling a number out of the air ain’t exactly the most convincing tax valuation, especially where it didn’t sell for a lower price.
You wouldn’t need to hold it: put it on the market the minute you won for $2.0M. Take bids for two to three weeks and pick the highest one.
The IRS arguing that some charity pulled a number out of the air above the last listing price vs a sale three weeks later in a market falling about 5-7% per year would be easy to win, if they even challenged it at all.
Well, now that you guys have located the Dream House, are you still interested in winning it? The sign-up page is live right now at sfraffle.com, and the Early Bird drawings are approaching, where you could win up to $25k! Follow us on Twitter, and if you Like us on Facebook (on.fb.me/g2nWCB), you could also win a $150 gift card!
I’ve only been loosely following this. Does it make any sense to not give the raffle a try?
I see the comment about the 38k ticket floor and I can understand that it would not be viable to raffle anything for less than the acquisition costs, but even then, there are prizes being awarded.
Maybe I could win this, flip it and put all the proceeds into the improvements to the SFFD fire station I’m in escrow to buy down in Dogpatch.
Note the fine print on the drawing:
If fewer than 38,000 tickets are sold by 5pm Friday June 24, 2011, the raffle will be held as scheduled, and prizes will be awarded as advertised with the exception that the Grand Prize Winner will receive a sum equal to 50% of the Net Raffle Proceeds, not to exceed $1,400,000.
Net Raffle Proceeds will be divided equally between YBCA and the Grand Prize Winner based on YBCA accounting, which shall be final and conclusive with respect to the Grand Prize Winner.
For these purposes “Net Raffle Proceeds” are defined as the balance of funds left after paying all other prizes, all raffle expenses and all expenses for the House.
Assumed there only 35K tickets were sold, 35K x $150 =
$5,250,000 – (TOTAL PRIZES = $330K) – (unknown $$$ for all raffle + house expenses = 3-500K? who knows!!!)= $4,420,000 / 2 = $2,210,000 or even $1.5M each if only 27K ticket sold . Am I simply getting very closed to $1.4M or $1.3M any way? or who knows?
“Am I simply getting very closed to $1.4M or $1.3M any way? or who knows?”
Considering that “YBCA accounting” isn’t described it is safest to assume that it resembles Hollywood accounting. So the amount the winner receives might be entirely at the whims of the raffle organization.
When I have won prizes in the past I was 1099 on the retail value. Then when I filed my taxes I was allowed to subtract the fluff and was then taxed on the market value. I kept copies of adds or appraisals encase I was audited. I haven’t been audited yet