Purchased for $2,019,000 ($1,037 per square foot) in September 2008, 425 1st Street #3004 returned to the market five months ago asking $1,998,000 ($1,026 per square).
Reduced, delisted and relisted a few times since, yesterday the One Rincon Hill three-bedroom was withdrawn from the MLS last asking $1,699,000 ($873 per square foot) and without a reported sale.
At the same time, yesterday the sales office at One Rincon Hill announced they’re “now 87% sold!” (up from 80% a year ago) while touting the 1,930 square foot #2903 which has been listed at $1,495,000 ($775 per square foot) for the past three weeks.
Call it roughly 30 net new sales at One Rincon Hill over the past year with roughly 50 left to close (versus the 40 we estimated in July).
∙ Three On The Thirtieth At One (Rincon) [SocketSite]
∙ A Bit Of “02” Irony (And 80 Percent Sold) At One Rincon Hill [SocketSite]
∙ Another Round Of Sales Office Reductions At One Rincon Hill [SocketSite]
Wow…the sales office is really drawing this out. I don’t understand their strategy. Just sell the remaining units at whatever price the market will bear. The longer you wait the worse it’s going to get.
^^^ True and in addition to the standard holding costs they’re paying 50X HOA fees.
Speaking of which, that would make the developer the single largest voting bloc on the HOA. I’ll bet they’re in favor of draining the reserves over raising fees.
(and congrats to SS readers for not posting the usual 1RH slams so far !)
Not surprised they’re having trouble selling the rest. I had the opportunity to stay at One Rincon for several months and was severely disappointed. Worst issues (aside from the price) are the noise from the highway (even on the higher floors) and from neighbors, their dogs, their televisions etc … earplugs are a necessity because of surprisingly poor soundproofing. And also the almost completely absent ventilation – probably to keep the smog from bridge traffic from polluting the apartments – but makes you feel cooped up and short of air. Neighborhood is also somewhere you wouldn’t want to walk after dark. Saw addicts injecting themselves in broad daylight only a 1.5 blocks away, loads of dog/human crap on sidewalks going north up to Market Street, and lots and lots of homeless.
LOL…there’s your slam, MoD. But it does appear to be the slam of experience…
I just re-read my post and stand-by everything that I wrote. But in fairness, I thought I’d add a few good points. It’s a pretty slick building with some nice finishes on the inside. And the valet parking was much nicer than I thought it would be (the parking attendants were always very friendly and very quick). And of course, the views can be stunning.
But in the end, the problems FAR outweigh the benefits. Personally, I concluded it would make a great hotel, where people can be wowed by the views but don’t stay long enough to realize the drawbacks of actually “living” there.
Am I crazy? I’m kinda disappointed this thread isn’t already 200 posts long, filled with Infinity versus ORH zealots throwing cafeteria food at each other.
Ah, the old days.
* sighs *
actual resident,
Rincon is not perfect, but you know honestly, I have not experienced any of the things you are describing. Maybe no one’s occupying the unit near me. It’s true I don’t stay there that much though. And it is irritating when dog owners dont clean up after their pets.
Noisy, smoggy, transients or no this is a much better deal at $775 per square foot than $1037. It seems unlikely that the sales staff are deciding where to draw the line on pricing.
At least there is no way TRC will be built. As awful looking as ORC is on the skyline it would have just compounded things if the second tower had been built.
^^^ Now that’s the sort of speculation I’m interested in. Can someone remind me what the facts are about building two? Last time I checked there was a dispute with City Hall about fees. And I just kinda assumed the permit would expire at some point if nothing happened.
i promise to not get into a running argument with ORH defenders (this will be my last post), but everything i say is a true representation of my experience there.
i’m not surprised that a current owner disagrees – and in particular a current owner who appears to be selling unit(s) at ORH.
fortunately, according to the socketsite entry, those who are convinced i’m wrong have 50 opportunities left to buy and see for themselves. i’m sure the salesforce and even a recent poster on this thread will be very willing to oblige.
background: i’m a renter at ORH and have been here a year. I’m likely to sign another 1 year lease.
i disagree with most of “actual resident’s” opinions about the building, except for the sketchy neighborhood. i live facing the bay bridge and don’t have issues with outside noise. i actually think the soundproofing in the building is great. compared to similarly price rentals, I haven’t found another building that offers the same quality of amenities. when i was checking out the infinity last year, i thought the location was far superior to ORH, but the interior of the units weren’t as nice as ORH.
even though i enjoy living at ORH, i still wouldn’t buy a unit here…until the neighborhood improves.
I will hazard an educated guess that approvals to build T2 are a vested right per CA state law given the infrastructure that was built for it during T1 construction (garage, amenities, foundation?).
And I’ll bet T2 is the first, next tower to be built on Rincon Hill in the next cycle (whenever that is) — prior to 201 Folsom, 45 Lansing, etc. etc., unless the development team screws something up.
Anyone see that #4107 sold on April 30th of this year for $830,000 and now is listed again at $865,000?
i completely agree with the poster above. maybe i’m one of those people with sensitive hearing, or maybe i’m just more easily annoyed, but the number of times i have heard a dog yapping in the condo above my friend’s place has completely turned me off. to me that’s far worse than the “vrooms” and the “whooshes” off the bridge.
then again, maybe not every apartment there is as noisy.
my friend told me about an ad on craigslist earlier this week for a 1-bedroom for $2500, which seems pretty cheap. i didn’t have the heart to tell her i’d go insane living in that place. but if you’re not as bothered by those things as I am, it might be worth checking out.
good luck!
No one in a high-rise should have a dog, period. It’s unfair to your neighbors and it’s unfair to the people who have to dodge the feces in the street that you won’t bother to clean up.
As far as the neighborhood goes, is it really that sketchy? I always thought that area is not that bad.
I used to work around there, it’s definitely not great, but it’s not terrible either. It’s pretty desolate feeling, and there are certain blocks with a heavy bum presence. There are also some nice parts, South Park & South Beach are both nearby and quite nice, but you generally have to walk through a sketchy block or two to get there.
I don’t think there’s anything sketchy about the area (I also grew up in NY) but there is the odd homeless person here and there.
I think when the stretch of Folsom from Essex Street down to the Gap headquarters gets filled din it’ll improve. Until then, South Beach is a short walk away.
It’s also unfair to the doggy.
I don’t live there but as I’ve said before I’ve spent significant amounts of time there. (my best friend lives there).
Car noise can be clearly heard throughout the entire building no matter how high you are, but I found that it is mainly “white noise”. it has never bothered me, but it is audible. the things that bother me more are noises like honking, which there is not a lot of.
Soundproofing could be better, but I’ve found that to be the case in almost EVERY “luxury” building built in the last half century. I have personally never heard dogs barking but there are no yappy dogs in units around my best friend’s unit. I give the soundproofing barely passing grades, but it is better than some other towers IMO.
as for ventilation: I agree here. The places get very stuffy very quickly, and the windows barely open (just a crack, a few inches) unless you have a door to a patio.
nabe: I’ve never felt threatened right around ORH, although I HATE walking under the “greyhound bridge” on 1st and Natoma late at night… I always take a cab instead. I’ve had a few issues there…(which ironically is right by Millenium).
the immediate surrounding nabe is dead. nothing going on.
The most disappointing aspect for me is the “gym”.
My favorite aspect (obviously) is the view, and I also like the outdoor patio area although it is very loud from car noise.
Overall, it’s a nice starter place with luxury pricing. But so many places in SF are as well (starter places with luxury pricing)
ex-SF-er,
good and true points. wish the gym was better for sure, but if they ever build the 2nd tower it will be.
The neighborhood is a bit dead, needs a good Ramen place (like Santa Ramen) or Taqueria or Tapas or deli place.
Paul
“No one in a high-rise should have a dog, period.”
Sorry to pick on you, Brahma, but there’s that great SF “let me tell you how to live” attitude that we all know and love. 🙂 At least if you had said large dog, it might not have been a strange thing to say.
I would’ve liked 3004 at $750/sf, but not at $870. It’s overpriced, especially given uncertainties about T2 which will block it’s view, it’s main asset. (2307 was sold at $680, I think.)
That said, I’m also surprised by actual resident’s description. I lived there for a year and my experience wasn’t such. (Except for a prick who played his music too loud during the quiet hours). But it’s not a best location. Neighborhood experience is nonexistent. Perhaps a good hotel as actual resident says, for commuters who prefer to valet in/out and hop on the free way.
Well, the “Greyhound Bridge” is coming down as we speak (maybe even down already?) Lotta construction there in the future, but the result should be quite nice, with improved traveling options as well.
A lot of those lots are slated for development, though of course who knows when something’ll happen.
Hey that is a great photo! I love this tower and it is a San Francisco icon.
Someone told me recently T2 might be rental units instead of condos? Has anyone else heard this?
haven’t heard that. I don’t think the capital markets are there to finance it right now, and not sure it would make sense as rentals.
Does anyone have %sold numbers for the other SF condo towers ? Thinking of Blu, One Hawthorne etc.
How are the foreclosure/resales in those places ?
Someone told me recently T2 might be rental units instead of condos? Has anyone else heard this?
doubtful. These types of towers are very expensive to build. In SF there is a PREMIUM to owning vs renting. (in other words, people will pay more to own even when they can rent the exact same thing for less).
thus: it is in a developer’s interest to build and sell instead of build and rent.
as Paul stated there is no financing for ORH2, nor will there be for some time. The developer would need to be insane to build something now. Here we are YEARS after completion and ORH STILL isn’t sold out. they’re not going to add hundreds of units more.
all that said: who knows what the distant future will bring. It may be many years before ORH2 is started and maybe by that time economics will favor apartments.
We are just barely in the midst of the Great Recession, and we have years and years left of it. (Yes, I know that “officially” the NBER has called the end of the recession, but obviously the pain continues and will continue for some time).
As others have mentioned, the noise from the highway is always present, and either it bothers you or it doesn’t. The only time it bothered me was when Harley Davidson’s would drive down the bridge at night.
And regarding neighbors, dogs, etc., you either get lucky or you don’t. When we were there, all the noise always came from one particular neighbor. Don’t recall ever hearing any of the others.
with the situation with orh, other developers such as tishman would be insane to build 201 Folsom. now what to do about those empty lots.
Wow, it’s been years since I was originally called a liar on this site when I shared inside info (through a friend who had put down a deposit and was in litigation) on TRH not being built.
Years.
And ORH still isn’t sold out?! Wow.
I’ve learned a ton on Socket Site over the years, one of which is… be very careful about overpaying at the height of a bubble for a box that’s little different from hundreds of other boxes in the same building.
Oh yeah; I still miss Satchel and wish he had a blog somewhere so I could get his current thinking on all things economy, housing and finance related.
what about a hotel in these empty spaces?
“with the situation with orh, other developers such as tishman would be insane to build 201 Folsom. now what to do about those empty lots.”
As to all the empty lots ………
It’s going to be a decade or more before anything major is built again.
Given that, I’d require the developers appealing for extensions to their permit window be required to green the empty lots and create mini-parks.
Otherwise the lots will become longterm wind and debris strewn eyesores – not to mention public safety hazards.
Frankly, I would not grant these developers any extensions of their permits beyond one initial extension. But developer influence being what it is in SF that isn’t going to happen.
Given that, I’d require the developers appealing for extensions to their permit window be required to green the empty lots and create mini-parks
we’ve talked about this before, but the developers would be insane to go for this in SF.
SF has set itself up as unreasonable and arbitrary in its decision making processes, and proven this repeatedly.
once you green one of these lots there is no telling how hard it will be to develop the lot. you’ll have NIMBYs bringing this before the historic committee and the environmental impact committees and the Only-in-SF committees.
I agree with you that it will likely be some time before significant development comes to the area. (I’ve been saying that for 3 years now). not sure if it’ll be 5 years or a decade or 20 years though.
I’m surprised by all the comments about noise transfer between units. I have lived in modern high rise towers in Chicago and those towers had concrete between floors with sound absorbtion insualtion below floor or carpeting, so was 1RH built differently? I never could hear any noise from below or above, nor did my neighbors in both Chicago or Europe, but find the noise transfer problem in San Francisco condo buildings to be a constant complaint among my friends.
I have to say in general, as somone who has lived in Italy, Sweden, Chicago and San Francisco, why is the quality of housing construction in San Francisco so cheap considering the high cost? Many of my friends in other cities would NEVER spend over $500 sq. ft. in new construction that would allow you to hear noise between units.
As to the comments about new construction being too expensive for luxury rental construction, then how do you explain what is going on in NYC and Chicago right now? Many newer towers in Chicago are combination of condos and rentals. (Usually the condos are the upper floors) Many of the new towers currently rising in Chicago and NYC are going to be high priced rentals, and have long waiting lists of people ready to move in.
WhereIsSoundInsulation?
Construction is expensive in San Francisco because:
1) Building vertically is expensive, requiring much more engineering than traditional houses. Engineers are expensive
2) Land is expensive in entitiled areas where you can build 40 stories.
3) Labor is expensive in the Bay Area.
4) San Francisco is a Union town. Union labor and union shops.
As far as rentals in Chicago and NYC, they probably are emergency rentals because the market isn’t where the developers want it to be in sales.
Paul
“…would NEVER spend over $500 sq. ft. in new construction that would allow you to hear noise between units.”
I find this shocking as well. Does ORH not have z-ducts ?
Land is what percentage of the overall cost of these kinds of projects?
Land is small compared to entitlements, permits and construction. It will still be $5-$20 mil.
sorry if this is OT given the ORH thread. but since noise has come up…
just wondering if anyone is familiar with the construction and possible noise at 88 king?
we recently looked at a couple of units there – curiosity more than anything at this point. i love the location and it seems like there’re quite a few units available at the moment.
for the brief time we were there i didn’t hear much in the way of noise from other units but was wondering at the time about it.
“Well, the “Greyhound Bridge” is coming down as we speak (maybe even down already?) ”
It is going to go back up later because buses will still need to get from TBT to the freeway. The roadway is not down yet. The demolition of the roadway was initially scheduled for December to February or so, but is now pushed back to February to April:
http://transbaycenter.org/construction-updates/demolition
Paul, you would be surprised how expensive construction labor is in NYC and Chicago, both Union towns as well. (same for engineer wages) Still, whether union labor or not, WHY did I never hear footsteps, barking dogs, music, etc. in any of my or my friends high rise units in Chicago, but I have here in SF at SOMA Grand, 1RH, etc? I really think San Francisco buyers have been trained to expect less and pay more for units.
BTW- Wasn’t 1RH supposed to have some type of special “whisper quiet” glass windows?
“Still, whether union labor or not, WHY did I never hear footsteps, barking dogs, music, etc. in any of my or my friends high rise units in Chicago, but I have here in SF at SOMA Grand, 1RH, etc? I really think San Francisco buyers have been trained to expect less and pay more for units. ”
When were these Chicago-units built? Boom-time construction is almost always of inferior quality.
WhereIsSoundInsulation?
You are right. I have no experience building High rises in San Francsico, Chicago or New York or anyplace else. In fact, I have limited experience being in buildings in New York and Chicago, so I am not qualifed to comment on their sound insulation.
I don’t know why you are hearing things in San Francisco and no place else.
I am not sure what whisper quiet glass is.
I can only say from my experience when I have stayed overnight in my unit at One RIncon Hill, I did not hear anything, except for the occassional door slamming in the hallway. No footsteps, no music, no dogs and in fact no traffic (the unit is pretty high).
Could be New York and Chicago have better sound insulation, I don’t know.
Paul
Every place has pluses and minuses. I think the bottom line is that the sounds insulation could be better, but I personally still love the building for it’s views, probably the best in the city for me. If your more of a visual person I think that ways the sound qualities you may have issues with, even though I have not experienced them. I may just not be that auditory of a person. (I can’t sing and I can’t play the guitar very well.)
Boom-time construction is almost always of inferior quality.
Didn’t ORH make a big deal over the fact that it was completed in record time? To do that, one would assume they had to cut corners somewhere.
And the views should be great: from tower TWO!
http://www.sfhighrises.com/One-Rincon-Hill
A lot of the sound issues are because there is too much hardwood flooring. It should never be allowed in the bedrooms. It helps the developer when selling units, but it makes for a less “livable” environment. When you have hard floors, hard walls, hard windows and hard furniture, it is going to be noisy. I have been on both sides of the wall – one with hardwood, the other carpet – and the difference is amazing. You can almost yell in the carpeted room and not be heard on the other side. You can talk in a normal voice on the hardwood side and you will be heard. Carpet has obvious advantages for foot falls (especially with hard soled shoes) and any items that are dropped.
Also, the doors are just ridiculous. They are extremely heavy and have four commercial strength tensioned hinges and they absolutely slam shut. It is amazing how many people just walk out the door and let it close by itself – at any hour – instead of keeping their hand on the handle to ensure it closes quietly. The doors are more annoying than the barking dogs, crying babies and loud music combined.
I short: there is noise because of the high-end finishings?
That’s a new one.
Sounds like an econobox, looks like an econobox,…
For me a carpet is synonymous with rental or cheap compromise. Not luxury. If I pay top $$$ I’d better get silence. Then again, look where this tower is located 😉
If you are going to have all those hard surfaces and not cover them, then it is going to be noisy…end of story, no matter how you build it….unless you use rubber instead of steel and concrete
I’ve lived at ORH for over 2 years. My unit is in the corner nearest the Bay Bridge. Unless there is honking or sirens or Harleys going by (infrequent) I can barely hear the white noise from the sounds of the regular street/freeway traffic. I remember going in to check out my unit before construction was completed, and hearing some of the street noise, thinking it was audible but not bad. Once I actually moved in, the noise from all the electrical appliances (fridge, TV, cable box, etc) largely masks that and even the white noise is barely audible. At least this is true when I have fully shut the balcony door by lifting up on the handle. Otherwise it is not sealed and there is more noise that comes in.
I’ve stayed at One Rincon and found the noise from the freeways is actually worse at night. Part of it is probably that I notice noise more when I’m lying in bed. But it’s also true that with less traffic on the bridge at night, the cars go faster and their engines are revved up a lot more.
If you are a light sleeper like me, it can be a real pain. And while it can be improved by wearing ear plugs, I was VERY disappointed given the prices there and the hype about it being a luxury residence.
And come to think of it, I think Willy is probably right on. The noisiest neighbor I had there was also someone with hardwood floors. I didn’t hear the ones who had carpeting as much.