3664 22nd Street
3664 22nd Street now (asking $2,999,500 for the new construction above) and then (when bought for $1,050,000 in February 2007 prior to being demolished below).
3664 22nd Street Before
The impact to be on neighborhood averages? Priceless, but not to be confused with evidence of “appreciation” per se.
∙ Listing: 3664 22nd Street (4/4.5) 3,232 sqft – $2,999,500 [MLS]

Comments from Plugged-In Readers

  1. Posted by hugh

    wow. double take. i never would have guessed it wasn’t authentic.
    isn’t there a planning ordinance against faux-victorians?

  2. Posted by Kurt Brown

    It’s quite nice, but that vertical marble install in the shower surround gives me a bit of a headache, I must say.

  3. Posted by lol

    It’s a good thing they thought about building a house behind the garage.
    It’s not a Victorian if it has been built after the passing of Queen Victoria. I would say it is an Latter Elisabethan.

  4. Posted by Denis

    Funny… I was literally just looking at this on the MLS. What a strange house. I like parts of it, I guess. The garage seems awkward, like a normal Italianate is sinking into it. The floor plan also seems strange at first glance. I really like the kitchen and the baths seem chic and modern, if a little too trendy. Anyway, congratulations to the developer for getting this project done at all.

  5. Posted by anon

    The garage is the best part about it. Well, the garage and the master.

  6. Posted by hugh

    “The garage seems awkward, like a normal Italianate is sinking into it”
    I think it looks squat because it’s much lower than a Victorian. that must have been to avoid blocking the view of the place next door with windows on the the roof line? an Italianite would have a parlor floor with 12-14′ ceilings. this looks like the standard contemporary 8′.
    still, looks nice from the street. wonder what wa there before the little 1940s (50s?) house?

  7. Posted by The Milkshake of Despair

    This is kind of what I meant earlier about how it is still possible to replicate an older classic style house. I haven’t seen it in person, but this one looks to be faithful to the style. Yeah, I’m sure it would be easy to identify it as a copy (look ! double paned windows !) but this is about as close as one needs to get anyways.
    Nice to see a crummy 1950s era bland box replaced by eye candy. Yes, placing a garage right out front isn’t the most authentic aspect, but you cannot fault the developer for providing something the market values. They did put some decent effort towards making the prominent garage look good.
    And wow, that curbside photo is sure heavily worked over. I won’t even gripe about the power lines that were probably snipped out.

  8. Posted by eddy

    Very steep street. See mapjack link in name. I think this is causing the perception issue.
    Not a bad house. Bedrooms are sort of all over the place. I’m sorta over the whole Noe scene. One 2 block shopping street is sort of over blown.

  9. Posted by lol

    hugh, your theory seems to be confirmed:

  10. Posted by citicritter

    Nice, pure fake history – real ‘progressive’ SF.

  11. Posted by noel

    this might me the worst house I’ve seen in Noe in sometime. The floor plan is all sorts of chopped up and the craftsmanship just isn’t there. I would be surprised if this peaks over 2.8 and that would be generous.

  12. Posted by Invented

    Why such proclamation of vulgar carness? What is this 3 cars? Who’s going where? (OK I work at home I confess).
    As if the size of the garage isn’t bad enough it has a look-at-me garage door flanked by decorative trees and noisy planter brickwork.
    It needs to be hidden not highlighted!
    Paint the door ONE color, kill the [planters] and re landscape with a v low planter.
    I cringe when I see ugly jutting out garages in front of Vics.
    The garage here could have been half the size and would have allowed for a lovely garden.

  13. Posted by Jim

    What a travesty. phoney baloney all the way. In no way does it have accurate proportions for a Victorian – clearly a new house with a lot of exterior decoration added on. And then they “add on” the garage just as though it couldn’t structurally work under an existing house.

  14. Posted by reguru

    Wow!! That is the ugliest garage door, paint and planter combo ever conceived!!! The whole thing is worse than the original house. At least the original house had integrity, and wasn’t trying to be something it is not.
    Quick fix suggestion: Paint the garage door grey, plant some jasmine and bougainvillea to climb the walls out front, and some plants to hang over the bricks. (Could be done by Sunday’s open house if you start tomorrow!!) 😉
    I haven’t seen the house in person, so I won’t comment on the rest, but it doesn’t look like Victorian proportions from the facade photo.
    Still, better than a lot of stuff that gets built and tries to fit in. This is a tough, tough city to find the right fit and look for a new building. No matter what you propose and build, someone isn’t happy.

  15. Posted by The Milkshake of Despair

    Good call on the low height of the first floor, that explains its squattness. Surely this could have been just as easily built to proper proportions with negligible extra cost in materials.
    Odd then that the neighborhood planning and entitlement process is to blame for limiting the fidelity of this copy.

  16. Posted by Joshua

    For all the arm-chair QB’s…
    “It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat.”
    — Theodore Roosevelt

  17. Posted by lol

    Sure. We could also look at it this way:
    There was an ugly house before and there’s a pretty house sitting at its place.
    Peoplewise, this is similar. Middle class out. Prettier people in. This house sold for a million for the sole purpose of the flip. Without this potential it would have sold for less than 1/2 that. Which means a 120K/Y local middle class family could have lived there and fixed it up over the years.
    Instead, we have a vanity house that will probably sit empty for the next 10 years as low-10s millionaires from out of town get busy buying/selling/rinsing/repeat as a prize, not as a home. They tend to get bored pretty quickly. I hope I am wrong, but I have seen a few wannabe trophy houses in this town go that path.

  18. Posted by Joshua

    ^ the class warfare argument is boring. do something with your life. see above.

  19. Posted by lol

    Never boring when you are the ones slowly being squeezed out. Between subsidized grannies and absentee milionaires, I hope this city keeps some lifeblood in its future. This is what this correction could achieve if we let it run its course.

  20. Posted by DanRH

    Saw the inside of this yesterday.
    I am surprised by all the garage comments as I didn’t particularly notice it being too large or whatever. Just a “standard” 2 car garage in my quick view. But other notes:
    – what doesn’t come across in the pics, on the plus side, is that the views are great. That may get them the price they’re looking for.
    – On the bad side, the house is very vertical so I would think that it won’t appeal to some (rich) families.
    – It’s a steep street, but they’re on a spot that’s before the really steep area, and it’s an easy walk to 24th.
    – Location is good if you’re a tech millionaire working in the valley, whereas pac-heights is a bit of a drive.
    – that grass is the fake stuff. I felt it and it’s pretty incredible in terms of realistic quality, and it wasn’t hot to the touch despite the sun being out. Is that stuff is considered environmentally good or bad?
    Not sure if it’ll sell at this price, but it’s brand new construction. Only the outside appears Victorian, everything inside is def. modern. Personally, I would have just preferred them to make it modern on the outside too.
    lol, while I see your point, no way would that place originally just sold for only $400k…maybe $800k.

  21. Posted by sparky-b

    I wouldn’t call the interior modern they went with decorative crown molding, large casings, tall base, detailed cabinet doors, etc. Some finishes are modern (baths, fireplace) but not the overall feel. New but not modern.
    I found the drawbacks to be:
    -The view is only from the Master and Bed #2, nothing in the entertaining space.
    -vertical build w/o all the beds on a single floor.
    -not a good family yard
    -Northern not Sothern exposure
    -basement feel to the lower level.
    -No way is it 3200 feet.
    That said, good job on the build and I hope they get this price.

  22. Posted by lol

    800K would be the price of a move-in condition. Moderate fixers used to sell in the 400s around year 2000 not far from that house.
    I know one of these and it’s still a work in progress (60% work done). The family is local, 2 kids, 170K/Y, regular white collar jobs. The kids have been there all their life and play with all the neighbor’s kids. Nobody’s not going anywhere. The millionaire guy next door tried to start a pissing contest but my friend declined to pick it up. You know where this goes… In the 3M range, you’re more likely to get people who’ll try to up their neighbors just to make a point. Another guy on the street bought his trophy house with a view, 4 times more space than he needs on his own. He’s been there for 2 years and he hasn’t talked to any of the neighbors. Just saying: this area is slowly moving beyond gentrifying (I think gentrifying is usually a good thing, btw) and getting filled with mausoleums.

  23. Posted by brandno

    A bit surprised by all the hate towards this place. I think it looks a lot better than most “authentic” vics. As for the floorplans, if it really is as terrible as you guys say it is, then they did a pretty good job imitating a vic.

  24. Posted by sparky-b

    “Moderate fixers used to sell in the 400s around year 2000 not far from that house.”
    Really? I that wasn’t the norm. There always deals to find, but I don’t think that was the Noe market in 2000.

  25. Posted by curmudgeon

    Yeah, I had a total (and I mean total) fixer in Eureka Valley for 340K in 1995. The runup began in 1995/96 and lasted until the dot com crash. I think 400 in Noe in 2000 would have been unusual, but maybe for something really small.

  26. Posted by DanRH

    sparky-b: you are more right than I was – yep, I should have said ‘new’ than ‘modern’.
    lol: well, 2000 is a bit further back then this last sale, in ’07. This would have gone for $800k or more in ’07 and probably about that now. I see your point but I don’t think mausoleums are right around the corner. Noe is nice but not that nice. The firehouse on 22nd hasn’t sold in 3+ yrs and I’m sure every flipper / builder looking at trying to do a $4+M trophy-flip is now aware of that.
    I’ll guess this place goes for $2.7M.

  27. Posted by anon

    Two houses sold in 2000 in Noe for under 500K. One was an attached fixer with a 1245 sqft lot way up on Diamond @ 27th for 450K, and the other an even bigger fixer for 495K in the flats of 27th street, flipped that same year for 1.06M.

  28. Posted by BobN

    In defense of the design, it must be noted that Queen Victoria, in her later years especially, was rather short and squat.

  29. Posted by lol

    Thanks for the correction. This is why I said “around 2000”. I know a 1998 fixer that sold for 400K.
    The price run-up in this area can be attributed partly to a population shift (gentrification), but also as well by speculation/transformation motivated by the expectation of appreciation. Very bubbly.
    That a granma on Social Security is being replaced by a middle class 170K/Y family is one thing, and it has a lot of positive effects (sorry granma, I like life around me). But replacing this middle class family with boring millionaires is not something I’d like very much for this area.

  30. Posted by sfrenegade

    “that vertical marble install in the shower surround”
    Well, add that to the fact that marble makes no sense in a bathroom given its porousness and the maintenance required.

  31. Posted by Willow

    I’m not sure I agree with those who lament the direction Noe Valley has taken over the past 10-15 years. If you don’t like the demographic don’t live there. It’s pretty simple…

  32. Posted by kthnxybe

    I’m with lol here. It’s a weird and vulgar looking home and I’m not sure who the buyers are for this kind of thing.
    Don’t get me wrong, I am all for beautiful houses that I could never afford. I love looking at them, and I’m not mad that other people have more money than me. But a house that could have been affordable to a middle income family, but instead someone built yet another expensive yet ugly house that no one might really want on top of it, just feels kind of sad.

  33. Posted by lol

    I don’t mind nice big houses neither, just the fact that they tend to displace regular folks. After all many vics are huge in retrospect. Noe didn’t have a lot of 3000+ houses though.
    At least when you build this kind of house, at a minimum try to get it to the right height. They probably had to compromise with the neighbor to its right who probably said blocking the view from his dormer was a no-no. I thought views were not protected? When you know the amount of busybodying in SF, no surprise you can’t always get what you’re entitled to. Roofline alignment should at least follow street level. That it doesn’t for this house is another testimony that SF is an overly protective city.

  34. Posted by someone

    Saw it in person today and it does have issues as Sparky predicted, but overall I was blown away. One of the nicest finishes and attention to details I’ve seen in Noe ever.
    I’m pretty sure it’s 3200 sqft, and there are great outdoor spaces, backyard and decks.
    Main problem is that the public rooms are small-ish, low-ish, dark-ish and no view.
    Might sell for asking.

  35. Posted by Devto

    He shouldn’t have used a solid wall as guard rail for the patio. Open rail would have exposed close to 4′ of the front of the building. Poor choice gotta catch mistakes like that.

  36. Posted by SocketSite

    The list price for 3664 22nd Street has just been reduced $204,500 (7%). Now asking $2,795,000 with 106 days on the market.

  37. Posted by lol

    Yeah, that’s not a 3M house. More like mid-2s.
    3200sf * 800 = 2.56M. Because it’s brand new construction with nice finishes. The dream of $1000/sf in Noe is over. For now.

  38. Posted by anonee

    sfrenegade ,
    “Well, add that to the fact that marble makes no sense in a bathroom given its porousness and the maintenance required.”
    they have this new product called a “sealer”.
    its thin and clear like water, and applied with a sponge. it lasts about 8 years.

  39. Posted by anonee

    lol, aka class warrior,
    “But replacing this middle class family with boring millionaires is not something I’d like very much for this area.”
    so, are you in favor of punitive tax rates for the ‘rich’ as a sort of leveler?
    when i think of people who are interesting or boring i usually don’t consider their net worth in the analysis, but when wealth is considered it typically adds to a person’s ‘interest’ profile.
    you seem to think differently…

  40. Posted by NoeValleyJim

    Are there a bunch of recently purchased $2M+ homes in Noe sitting vacant or being used as vacation properties? That is news to me. One of the nice things about Noe is the mix of people, there are some wealthy, some middle class and even some old school blue collar people in the neighborhood. If a CEO or dotcom millionaire wants to buy this house and live here, good for him.

  41. Posted by sfrenegade

    “they have this new product called a “sealer”.
    its thin and clear like water, and applied with a sponge. it lasts about 8 years.”
    Sealers aren’t perfect and you can still have etching, absorption, and other problems despite them, especially with white marble. And in a bathroom, you would likely need annual sealing. For less-used surfaces, I thought the re-sealing for marble was more like every 3 years. Granite sealing could last for 8 years or longer, I believe.
    I’ve worked in offices where the marble tables were re-sealed every 6 months. Most people aren’t very good with maintaining marble and don’t use appropriate care, so I would usually discourage its use in these cases, unless people are comfortable with some etching and just letting the stone age.

  42. Posted by SocketSite

    The listing for 3664 22nd Street has just been withdrawn from the MLS after 157 days without a reported sale.

  43. Posted by tipster

    What?! Just over $850/square foot for new construction and little birds aren’t telling us it’s sold at asking with multiple offers? Shocking!

  44. Posted by [anon.ed]

    Way to reference your own false claim without adding a single thing.

  45. Posted by sfrenegade

    It is surprising to see a Faketorian have this much trouble, however, especially one with views. Does it have to drop to $2.5M to move, like lol said?

  46. Posted by El Bombero

    Surprising that this hasn’t moved yet in light of how many suckers there are in SF.

  47. Posted by eddy

    Back on @$2.795, 0 DOM and In Escrow.

  48. Posted by snorezalot

    God I love the smell of vitriol in the morning.
    old house old and busted.
    new house nice and shiny.
    yeah the planters are still ugly, but whatever).

  49. Posted by matchu rara

    Oh Buffy, the faux Victorian soooo offends my sensibilities. I mean, it was like when Roger forgot his golf clubs and had to use a women’s set- the nerve!

  50. Posted by Eddy

    Sold 2.65m

  51. Posted by SocketSite

    As noted above, the sale of 3664 22nd Street closed escrow yesterday with a reported contract price of $2,650,000 and an official “55 days on the market” in the eyes of industry reports versus the 300 days since it was originally listed last year.

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