The resale of 1160 Mission #1407 closed escrow on 1/25/10 with a reported contract price of $640,000 ($5,000 under asking and $614 per square foot) for the 1,043 square foot two-bedroom at the Soma Grand.
Once again, while Soma Grand’s sales office appears to have sold the 1,031 square foot two-bedroom #1207 for $810,000 in August ’08, they moved the 1,043 square foot #1507 for $645,000 in May ’09. There is no thirteenth floor.
And while they were asking $785,000 for the 1,031 square foot #1907 in December, they’re now down to $699,000.
∙ Listing: 1160 Mission #1907 (2/2) 1,031 sqft – $699,000 [MLS]
∙ Four Sevens (And One Resale) At Soma Grand (1160 Mission) [SocketSite]
“You know there are problems when there are far more pictures of the building and its amenities than the unit itself”
Yeah, either the unit is embarrassingly small, or the agent is just too lazy to take detailed photos of each unit.
I certainly wouldn’t pay a premium to live in this area, even if the building has high end touches. I think they are targeting buyers from out of the area.
Nice unit. Horrible location, and I am not sure why someone would like to live there. Price is still ~$50k too high.
Does anyone know if this unit has unobstructed views?
Are you kidding me? Before all is said and done these units will be going for $300 sq ft, the person who bought this is a fool
“Does anyone know if this unit has unobstructed views?”
if the pics on the mls have any truth in advertising, the views look pretty unobstructed. still terrible location though.
Good to know.
FYI… I meant to type $80k to high (the 5 & 8 keys are close together).
You know there are problems when there are far more pictures of the building and its amenities than the unit itself. (see the listing for #1907)
“You know there are problems when there are far more pictures of the building and its amenities than the unit itself”
Yeah, either the unit is embarrassingly small, or the agent is just too lazy to take detailed photos of each unit.
I certainly wouldn’t pay a premium to live on this block, even if the building has high end touches. I think they are targeting buyers from out of the area.
“You know there are problems when there are far more pictures of the building and its amenities than the unit itself. (see the listing for #1907)”
Agreed. More pictures of the actual unit would be helpful. There is also no floor plan. Based on the one MLS picute, the living/dining area appears to be short changed like most SOMA condos. And yes, the location is definitely no better than D grade.
Those pics are all the same promotional photos that get used for all the SOMA Grand listings. The agents do that because they are busy and have a lot of listings to work with. Arguably these agents are being lazy with those details, but selling all these units is a huge task and they spend a great deal of time showing units and talking with people about features and prepaid HOA deals.
To experience this building you have to go see it anyway and many people are not going to bother when they take in the location. It makes sense in this particular case to focus more on showing units to people who come and ask to see than getting floor plan graphics on the web site. The interiors are all generic new condo anyway except for the custom colors here.
If you really dig urban living then the view of the city core going out along the the slab of the Fed building is really awesome, and I am pretty sure that is where this faces. It is the way the whole building and the units fit in that make these condos work, to the extent they work at all.
Mole Man: I think you are giving the realtors in this case a free pass. How difficult would it be to take some unit specific pictures? Maybe 30 mins worth of work? On urban living, SOMA grand falls horribly short. There are so many better alternatives in San Francisco.
“I think you are giving the realtors in this case a free pass.”
Agree — I’ve seen realtors selling $200K homes in the South put more effort into their listings than these jokers.
A few things:
– This unit/stack does have unobstructed views to the South and East. The new Trinity building blocks it to the West. Codes/historical buildings protect the current views. However, it is mid-level, so the views will not be top notch.
– I believe 1907 is in contract for close to that price (take about $20-$30K) off is my guess. However I think it’s also unfinished.
– From somebody who works this area and is very familiar with both this building and other downtown new construction, these are good values if you’re willing to wait on the neighborhood. And that neighborhood will never be prime. However, I can tell you right now that a unit like #1907, with those views and space, would go for at least $150K higher at Blu or Inifinity. So in that sense, you’re buying at a sizeable discount for the neighborhood.
– With Trinity going up (about 1600 of the 1900 units are market rate) the neighborhood will be upgraded. SOMA Grand and Heaven’s Dog have already upgraded the immediate area to an extent. There will also be a grocery store on the bottom level of Trinity, some shops, and of course you have the Federal Bldg. That’s not to say the homeless and/or drugged out element will disappear – it won’t (6th and market is simply way to close). But it will go from the primary presence to a very secondary presence, like most of downtown SF. The bad elements figure out where is a good place to hang out and not be bothered by authorities or neighbors calling police – and this own’t be one of them.
– And yeah, I don’t know how an agent can just negelct to get a full set of photos in there. Immediately creates doubts, and quite honestly seems lazy.
J –
“I certainly wouldn’t pay a premium to live on this block, even if the building has high end touches. I think they are targeting buyers from out of the area.”
You aren’t paying a premium to live on this block. You are paying a discount – a sizeable one at that. Take that condo – with it’s space, views, fitness center, hot tubs, outdoor common areas (which is awesome by the way), twice a month maid cleaning, private secure parking, concierge, doorman, etc, with HOAs lower than most new construction in the City – and place it 6 blocks in, you are looking at $850K easily.
Notice I’m not saying anything about the neighborhood. I’m simply saying there is no “premium” being charged at SOMA Grand to live on 8th and Mission. Quite the opposite.
Yes, there is always something more expensive. That is not good enough for me to justify the $670/sq ft they are asking for new listings. There are plenty of cheaper alternatives in better areas of the same district. And $588 is NOT a low HOA. It makes the asking rents for these units on craigslist seem like a much better value.
Meh….
Sorry dude, but from somebody who had no clue of the floor plan, size or views I’m just going to have to call you on it. I pointed out the specifics, you come back with broad generalizations. Show me these comparable properties in better areas at lower prices. Please. Also, if you could find cheaper HOA fees for those services, (hell, even half of those services) let me know.
Yeah, we all remember how good you were finding comparable when talking about 255 Berry Street #506..
If you actually want a doorman and pool, you will pay a similar HOA. If not, you should save at least $200-300/month. Either way $588 is NOT cheap.
Personally, I would look at Blu or used at the Beacon before this place.
@Agent415 –
Why would one pay a premium on a “concierge” and “doorman?” What do those individuals do exactly? The only reason I can think of them being valuable is that someone is always home to sign for packages, but you can handle that by having large packages send to work. What am I missing?
Thought I could help. In case anyone was wondering about views from midlevel 07 stack if you stick your camera out the window:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2523/4275214220_d1f0634fc5_o.jpg
East views up mission require you to be out of the window so you don’t technically get that. But everything south of mission can be seen without a problem.
Photo from the hall area:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4022/4274487709_dfed026c71_b.jpg
Floorplan of the 07 stack. Bottom faces trinity, right faces mission.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4033/4330521529_aeff67267b_o.jpg
Will let the debate continue 🙂
@Agent 415.
The Palms #717. Over 1,100 sq ft, lower HOA, 7th floor, better location, new building, in contract for $660k.
235 Berry #304. Over 1,000 sq ft, lower HOA, in contract for about $660k as well.
Both much, much better locations (thought admittedly not the best).
The Blu and 829 Folsom just lowered prices to be more reasonable, and there are numerous resales at Bridgeview, Metropolitan that are comparable.
I personally am biased but I did go through and visit many buildings and decided I don’t mind the feel of the area around 8th/mission. In fact it’s not bad at all and close to many parts of SF + public trans. However, it’ll really be a personal opinion for the tradeoffs.
My opinion on the two examples from SFRE:
The Palms #717 is/was bank owned. I personally didn’t like that building and it’s a long walk to public trans (muni train/bart). Not sure what the views are like from the pictures.
235 Berry is much further, no views except of other buildings. HOA is a hair less at $532
Both examples though seem to be nice units.
SFRE –
Oh, helllll no, LOL. Did you really reference “The Palms” as a comp to anything? No. Never. That atrocity is a comp only to itself. And SFRE, you are at the top of this thread asking if this unit has views, so once again I have to question how effectively you can critique this place. I know the floorplan, view, building and unit in and out.
235 Berry #304 – Short sale, dark, faces Berry Street, no views what so ever. The HOAs are a whopping $50 lower for an older building with half the ammenities – if that. And it’s listed at $675K.
Blu (although I love the building) has higher HOAs with virtually no ammenities. Plus, as I mnetioned, you put the unit being discussed at Blu, you’re looking in the high $700s. If you put #1907 in Blu you’re well into the mid $800Ks. Bridgeview? It’s a crappy building, nowhere near this level. Though no Palms, it’s got plenty of short sales and c-grade rep. 829 Folsom isn’t even 20% sold, so let’s not take a building where you can’t get real financing and use it as a comp. The Metropolitan, though in a greta location, is covered in scaffolding and has yet to settle ongoing litigation issues. Try taking a potential buyer to a building covered in industrial equipment with no real end in sight…
No.
lolcat –
Doorman is pretty necessary, especially in this area. The concierge will likley be the first thing to go once the HOA revisits the ammenties (scheduled in 3 years). Honestly, I think it’s dumb (I can make my own Chinese food reservations, thx).
J –
“Blu or Beacon”…. dude, that’s like saying I’m either going to buy a BMW or a Kia – it just sounds dumb. And reinforces my point, you really don’t know these units/buildings, but have no problem immediately determining what is wildly overpriced. Oh, and you know the Beacon’s HOA fees are $640, right? Without the $120 leased parking fee.
@ Agent 415
Relax dude, it was just something similar in a similar price range. 4th street is MUCH better than 8th & Mission.
All the properties, SOMA Grand, Palms, Berry, Bridgeview, all have their pros/cons. Only when you get into properties like ORH, Infinity, etc., can you say the comp doesn’t make sense. Sgres did a great job of letting us know the view/stack.
And why does it make a difference if its a short sale? A comp is a comp, and if you think otherwise, you are a fraction of a man.
@ Agent 415…
I forgot to mention that
Unit 11c at the Blu (1,070) sq ft is asking $789k, 50 Lansing 2/2s sell for around $730k, 177 King just sold an 8th floor 2/2 for $720k, and there are many other 2/2s in MUCH higher quality buildings/locations that sell for the same to slightly higher pricing.
Are those buildings acceptable? [And none were short sales].
You gotta love it when people feel the need to act dickish and call people dumb to cover up their own insecurities.
When you are confident in your own point of view, you can make a point based on facts and figures alone. I guess some people never learn this growing up though.
SFRE –
$789K (Blu, 11C) is not “slightly higher pricing” versus $640K. $730K and $720K are more in the range, but still not “slightly higher”. Blu is a higher quality building with far, far less ammenities. The other two are nowhere near the same level of quality or ammenities – that you would suggest that makes me think you haven’t been in any of these buildings. All three are obviously superior locations.
J –
Love the irony of the guy who hasn’t presented facts and figures, at all, talking about how to make points based on facts and figures. With that being said, sorry for being dickish. I sorta was. I do feel that on this site, people routinely get a free pass to say anything as long as it’s disparaging. Other way around they get flamed.
Point is – these are not overpriced units, and they’re not being sold at a premium. Just not. Poor choice of words by you.
@ Agent 415
$640k?? Where are you coming up with that figure? I thought the list was $699k, which makes it closer to the pricing at the Blu.
50 Lansing and 177 King are good (not great) buildings, but great locations. The finishes in both are good quality. (I’ve been in both, but admittedly not in the SOMA Grand, because the location is horrible).
As for amenities, I believe the King st property has the same amenities, while 50 Lansing has less. But I guess if someone lives at SOMA Grand, you need all those amenities, because its too risky to leave your unit.
How does the old saying go…”Dont get the best unit, in a crappy location”.
Ummmm… the headline and article here is about the unit sold @ $640K. You even commented on it.
The other unit referenced, at $699K (#1907), has pretty knockout views would go for well into the $800s at Blu (I also mentioned this).
Neither of these buildings have the same ammenities. SOMA Grand offers gawddamn maid service, lol. And the location is hardly “risky”, get real. Nutty folks around at night? Sure. But hardly risky.
I have been referring to 1907 listed at $699k. Sorry for the confusion.
The location is risky, someone got murdered about 1 block away by a homeless guy.
Yep – I think it happened on Market, right?
Anyway, I looked into the SF Homicide map. Once interesting thing to note is the homocide rate between ’08 and ’09. Not to say there wasn’t other factors at play here, but this would suggest that area is becoming much, much safer.
http://www.sfgate.com/maps/sfhomicides/
Just a thought.
“that’s like saying I’m either going to buy a BMW or a Kia”…
Speaking of BMWs, I wouldn’t leave a new one parked anywhere near SOMA Grand.
And if SOMA Grand was so much better than all these other SOMA developments, wouldn’t the rents also be higher in comparison?
Here’s a 2BR view unit w/pkg asking $3,150/month (no chance it’s cash flow positive considering HOA+taxes):
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/apa/1582754580.html
That is not asking much compared to any other newer 2BR units in SOMA of the same size.
“Point is – these are not overpriced units, and they’re not being sold at a premium.”
I did not say they were being sold at a premium. Obviously prices are not firm, and are still dropping. Apparently some people have figured out that they can get maids to come to nice areas too, even if they are just renting.
J –
Guy, you have been owned five different ways on this thread. So just to make it one more, as far as “still dropping”, you know they’re down to 3 units out of 250+, right?
The $640K unit SOLD at that price (the whole topic for this thread).
“The $640K unit SOLD at that price”
And how does that compare to the unit directly under it? Is there a –21% premium as you go up one floor?
How would you describe the pricing of #1907 over the last couple months? Constant? Dropping $1,400 a day?
not to drag politics into this, but is the early release of tens of thousands of inmates going to increase the density of ‘undesirable elements’ in this area?
I’ll add what I know about this floor plan and building.
There is an easy way for anyone to remember which side of the building a particular floor plan is located. Odd numbered units are on the west side of the building. I dubbed that the “hot” side since the units have floor to ceiling glass and no a/c. The even numbered are on the east, the “cool” side. On the east side starting at the 8th or 9th floor on up, you have some nice to spectacular city, bridge, bay and ball park views. The condos on the “hot” side are mainly looking at their Trinity neighbors.
For some reason the first clients I brought to see Soma Grand back in 2008 were not shown the ’07 floor plan. Later when they did see it, they were glad that they had choses another floor plan. It didn’t have the “wow” factor like some of the other plans and views.
A possible explanation about the current rents is that maybe those owners got Soma Grand to pre-pay a couple of years of HOA monthly dues, parking and storage rental fees like my client did. That would significantly bring down the owner’s outgo.
Soma Grand listed #1907 in the mls on 09/09/09 for $740,000, then raised the asking price to $785,000 sometime before it expired on 12/31/09. Now they’re “asking”, and that is the operative word, $699,000. I’d say it’s worth whatever a savvy buyer can negotiate. Knowing the right day to make an offer can work in your favor. Believe me, I know.
Some of Soma Grand services and amenities taken off the Soma Grand site which is why my client chose this complex over others in somewhat better neighborhoods.
Twice-a-month housekeeping
Concierge provided by Joie de Vivre Hospitality
Peet’s coffee and tea available in lobby 24/7
DVD lending library
Membership to JDV Joy of Life Club
Monthly wine tasting
Wireless Internet in lobby and park level along with a community extranet
Concierge-assisted reservations
A la carte services offered at an additional charge include: SOMA Dog Certified dog trainer, Spa facility, Yoga and Pilates, Laundry services, Interior design, Cooking classes, Technology services, Fresh flower and plant care services, Child care, Personal trainer /nutritionist, UPS and FEDEX, Doctors-on-call.
Amenities include:
Hotel-quality, extensive park level with hot tub, fire pit, barbeque and heat lamps
Fitness center
Community room including chef’s kitchen and media center
Spa facility with a meditation garden
Walking Path
High-speed elevators
Additional storage
Onsite parking with optional valet parking
Onsite City CarShare
Rotating Art Gallery
I see a lot more agents on this site recently. With what seems like a lot of plain talk, “just some facts”, attitude. I like it. Thanx for your input. And yes, I have been a bear and still am.
“A possible explanation about the current rents is that maybe those owners got Soma Grand to pre-pay a couple of years of HOA monthly dues, parking and storage rental fees like my client did. That would significantly bring down the owner’s outgo.”
That should not impact what they charge for rent. And even if they made a 20% downpayment on a $650k purchase price, PITI would be over $3,400 without the HOA fee. Not to mention opportunity cost on the downpayment. I think a $3,150 2BR rent price reflects the true value of the property.
J –
I sold a one bedroom, one bath condo on the 10th floor at Soma Grand. The sales office had been asking $540K and had just reduced it to $490K a couple of days before. My buyer got it for $460K and the above mentioned credits.
With that said, I don’t believe that all of their units sold for their asking prices since they were open to negotiate to get the units sold.
There isn’t a good way yet to tell what the true comps are in the entire building because (1) some of the sales prices have been turned over by the title company, like the lowered sales prices on sales like mine, and (2) not all of the condos were listed in multiple listing.
I’m a little embarrassed to admit this but I actually like Soma Bland over a new condo at Blu.
At least at S Bland, you get something for your HOA. Who cares about daily coffee or a DVD lending library but at least you get a concierge, gym and the awesome park level.
Over at Blu, you pay almost the same HOA (actually a little higher) and you pay some guy that sits behind the desk and he doesn’t even get up to open it for you. Plus, you have to park your car in a stacker with a weight restriction. Oh, and you get to look into an office building unless you live in 1 of the A floorplans.
For $460k at Soma Bland, wasn’t there better deals out there?
dgk –
Does it really matter what you like and don’t like, considering you can’t afford either? But have fun talking on a website about how bad they both suck, lol…. Sure the rental pad is suiting you just fine.
Agent 415,
I’m guessing you have no clients, thus why you are posting on this site? Slow day huh?
If you sold your client a $460k condo near 6th street or a condo w/ ZERO amenities at Blu with a $700 HOA; you should have zero clients by now.
Does Agent 415 realize that some of the people “talking on the website” here could buy and sell him? Im always amazed when people pull out that canard that if you’re criticizing RE you must be a poor renter that can’t afford to buy.
Don’t worry mac, I don’t take Agent 415 seriously anyway. Just recently “tipster” owned him on his posting about a condo on Berry. Agent 415 was gleaming on the recent sale but forgot to mention his clients lost over $100k in the sale.
No wonder why he’s posting on this site. He sure has a lot of time on his hands.
I do give credit to the realtors who post with their real names/companies, Cimb, Frontsteps, Skybox, InsideSFRE, Schtuff. Instead of using a name like “Agent 415”, i’m sure his clients appreciate him using an alias on a blog talking about real estate. I even miss Fredrick who’s a realtor and a real bull.
Btw Agent 415, I do not rent and glad you are not my realtor. Enjoy your day off, buddy.
https://socketsite.com/archives/2010/01/another_berry_street_two_closed_around_six.html
dgk, feel free to ignore the trolling from Agent 415 and check out the above thread from last time Agent 415 decided to sling some mud and tell people they got owned. Check out the sales record on 235 Berry #412, which Agent 415 was touting as an apple and as a sign of the market being great.
Never mind, I just looked up #412 at 235 Berry. It sold for $910k back in Feb 2007. No wonder why Agent 415 didn’t want to provide the details! The seller lost $150k, and then had to pay the used house salesperson another $40-50k just to unload it. (Unless it was short sale or fc, in which case he just lost 100% of whatever he put down + credit hit). Thanks for the apple, Agent 415! No surprise, a sucker and his money….
Posted by: El Bombero at January 21, 2010 3:18 PM
RSVP
“With that said, I don’t believe that all of their units sold for their asking prices since they were open to negotiate to get the units sold.”
Yeah, that is not a real surprise, and that is good news for the buyers. Still, my point was that asking rents should be determined by whatever the market will bear. A businessperson tries to turn lower costs into higher profit margins.
“At least at S Bland, you get something for your HOA. Who cares about daily coffee or a DVD lending library but at least you get a concierge, gym and the awesome park level.”
Yeah, there are lots of services. For most people it will probably feel like an expensive membership to a gym they never use, unless they actually utilize a majority of the services beyond the initial novelty value. The other concern I have, is that it seems very likely that the fees could go up significantly in a few years.
The fees were set and are to remain at this price for five years according to the CC & Rs, unless of course if there is a class action lawsuit against the developer. Monthly dues are usually raised if that happens to cover the association’s legal fees and rarely roll back.
Soma Grand offers similar services that the boutique style Joie de Vivre Hotels are famous for – http://www.jdvhotels.com/
“The fees were set and are to remain at this price for five years according to the CC & Rs,”
Couldn’t this deplete the reserves ? After the HOA freeze expires in 5 years, the dues could suddenly jump just to balance the books and get on track to build a reserve again.
By law the budget has to be audited by an outside firm to make sure that the reserves are all where they are supposed to be. In order to guarantee a five year price, the developer/investors would be on the hook to make up any deficiencies.
I guess I really didn’t answer your question about after the five year price freeze. Sorry about that.
There is no guarantee that on year six the dues don’t go up substantially. One way around part of it would be for the homeowners at the annual meeting to vote to eliminate the more frivolous services although that won’t probably make much of a dent in the monthly dues.
At least when the homeowners are responsible for the reserves beginning in year six, their reserves will be in the black and where they should be.
There are no guarantees in life. The monthly parking fees by then will no doubt have gone up too.
I don’t know if this helped but a big majority of the current owners won’t be concerned because they will have sold before this is a problem to them.
“a big majority of the current owners won’t be concerned because they will have sold before this is a problem to them.”
I don’t see how this can happen without another housing bubble. The current owners are more likely to be underwater in 5 years.
FWIW, the happy buyer of #1407. “For the best views in the Infinity, you’re paying at least $850,000. Here, for significantly less, you get the best views from the building.”