Soma Grand (1160 Mission)
While Soma Grand’s sales office appears to have sold the 1,031 square foot two-bedroom #1207 for $810,000 in August ’08, they moved the 1,043 square foot #1507 for $645,000 in May ’09, and they’re asking $785,000 for the 1,031 square foot #1907 today.
1160 Mission #1407
Yesterday the 1,043 square foot two-bedroom 1160 Mission #1407 hit the market as a resale asking $645,000. There is no 13th floor.
∙ Listing: 1160 Mission #1407 (2/2) 1,043 sqft – $645,000 [MLS]
∙ Listing: 1160 Mission #1907 (2/2) 1,031 sqft – $785,000 [MLS]

69 thoughts on “Four Sevens (And One Resale) At Soma Grand (1160 Mission)”
  1. SOMA Grand is located in an up and coming area near the Civic Center, with above average finishes. I was suprised at how much I liked some of the views there. I am especially enamored with the views of city hall.
    What makes SOMA Grand different and relevant is that they have poached much of their staff from the hospitality industry. You can tell the staff is highly trained and give a connotation of professional service.
    Some good deals out there still

  2. Paul, if I am not mistaken, won’t some (if not all) of those views of City Hall be blocked by the colossal Trinity Phases II and III?

  3. Good Point Mr.E,
    Since City Hall is below and phase II and III would be in front, and because of the angle,I think the top floors would still have a view of City Hall.

  4. I believe the trinity phase on the market st side is quite a few floors shorter than the first phase — views should be OK from upper floors, though I could be mistaken.

  5. How is the neighborhood around Soma Grand?
    In an “up and coming area” according to Paul Hwang (i.e. realtor talk for “currently not so great”).

  6. The neighborhood is sketchy. I seriously considering buying in this building but couldn’t justify it because of the location and seediness in the surrounding blocks. I am sure the neighborhood will improve over time assuming the mid-market redevelopment continues but I didn’t want to live in the current neighborhood for 5-10 years waiting.

  7. Convenience wise I think the location is great. BART is right behind the building, and it’s walkable to the Westfield, Civic Center/Concert halls, and Hayes. There are however a good number of loiterers here and there but it isn’t really a safety concern I’ve found.

  8. The imeediate area will change a lot once all of the Trinity Buildings are completed, and people start moving in.
    Also, there will be retail on the bottom floors put in a Trinity.
    Should create a whole new vibe for the block.

  9. I’m a long-time, relatively-wealthy resident of the area (1/2 block from Soma Grand on Minna, CLOSER to 6th Street).
    It’s fine. My 11-year-old son skateboards to and from the Civic Center MUNI stop on his own every school day, my 4-year-old daughter meets up with her friends on a daily basis in the playground on Russ & Folsom, and my wife regularly heads to Tu Lan by herself in the dark to fetch some food. We have *never* had a serious issue with crime. On the few occasions we have seen criminal behavior, we called the police and they showed up within a few minutes to deal with it. Such is life in the big city.
    Now imagine how nice it would be to be able to walk to work. Then imagine not needing a car at all.

  10. Trinity has completed phase I and move in’s will begin in early 2010. However most of the people moving in are from the existing Trinity tower so you aren’t getting many “new residents” to the area until phase II & III are built. As far as I know, no construction has begun on those phases which means it is at least 2 years before you will see the benefit of new residents.
    Also – 6th street is one of the worst if not these worst streets downtown. I wouldn’t feel safe there at night, let alone have my wife walk around there by herself. That’s just me. To each his own.

  11. Minnarrez, you’re not suggesting that your 4-year-old leaves the house on her own and goes to the playground, are you? Because that would really destroy any credibility in your post.
    Also: this is basically the tenderloin (spillover). JJ is right about 6th. I wonder what you consider “relatively wealthy.”

  12. Good gosh no, my daughter does not go to the park by herself, and neither do any of her friends. It’s an unfortunate fact that there are many, many convicted sex offenders living in those SROs. Not ideal, but not an ever-present threat either. Even the 11-year-old cannot go to the playground by himself…although he probably will soon, because he has grown up in the area and has his street smarts.
    “Relatively wealthy” equals an income of very-barely six figures (just me, my wife doesn’t work).

  13. No, anon, I am not letting my daughter go by herself to the playground. I will not let my 11-year-old do that either.
    “Relatively wealthy” means having a (just barely) six-figure salary. But I am the sole income for my family and will not be sending the kids to private school anytime soon.

  14. It is nice (and rare) to hear of someone making low six-figures who’s actually spending the appropriate multiple of salary on housing (i.e., ~$350k). I’d consider that squarely middle class for SF HHI though. At $450k (and no trust fund), I feel barely “upper middle” (and priced out of anything I’d want to buy) here.

  15. Wow. Amazing to think that someone making “barely 6-figures” for a family of 4 considers themselves well off. Even on 3X that income my wife and I can’t quite balance the books (and it ain’t the mortgage – $1300/mo in our case).

  16. I also live in that neighborhood (further south between howard and folsom). It’s it an eclectic mix of people from all walks of life, and while it is urban, it’s not rough at all. Up and coming may be a strong, but it’s definitely turning a corner. I frequently see families walking the streets, heading to the playground at near Russ St, and couples are out at night using local services. Minnarrez is right about crime — what I do see (usually drinking in public) is reported and SFPD usually shows up in a few minutes. Homeless transients picking through trash are the biggest nuisance but unless you live in the hills in this city (they seem to stick to the flat areas) you’re going to inherit those folks. There’s some great stuff happening along Folsom between 6th and 9th and with Trinity coming in and The City’s concerted efforts to improve 6th, I only have good impressions about West Soma.

  17. Amazing to think that someone making “barely 6-figures” for a family of 4 considers themselves well off.
    At $100k, “You’re in the TOP 0.66%
    richest people in the world!” I guess there are there are the 39,615,049 people who are richer than that to be jealous of… Show me the money.

  18. EBGuy: “Real SF.”
    I know you know this but obviously what $100k gets you in a third world slum isn’t relevant to the lifestyle it affords here. Minnarez isn’t sending his kids to private school for a reason: at $40-50k/year for 2 kids, it would basically swallow his entire post-tax income. My annual costs for nanny (market rate, probably more than market hours) and preschool for 2 kids are around 70k post-tax. Literally unaffordable on 100k/year pre-tax.
    On 100k you can’t even afford a 3BR in Bayview today without stretching yourself well beyond what’s reasonable. (I’m calling reasonable 2.5-3.5 x income — personally I’d never go beyond 2.5).

  19. I should follow up on that to say that I don’t mean to pile on or demean Minnarez at all. He’s likely a pretty happy person and better off than someone making 5x as much and feeling like it’s a struggle. I wish I had the disposition or lack of materialism to feel wealthy/content with what I make. I am sure I’d be generally happier.

  20. Thank you Shza for that last post. I was getting a little sick to my stomach with people saying that at 450K per year they felt barely upper middle class. (I know that wasn’t you). In fact, earning 100K per year in most places in this country makes you very comfortable indeed. In SF, not so much, but certainly above average. Although without a working partner, Minnarez’ “relatively wealthy” has a very strong stress on “relatively”. But it goes to show that it is all about managing with what you’ve got. I personally don’t have a lot of sympathy with anyone struggling to afford a nanny and private preschool and whatever else eats up a 300 or 400 or 500K annual income. At least in the grand scheme of things…
    And, given the season, I would like to make a plug for anyone in that lofty territory to remember the less fortunate who are truly struggling in this awful economy. The SF Food Bank and many other worthy charities would really appreciate your donations.

  21. Shza-I would be certainly happier if people with your arrogance hadn’t infested our city but we all have burdens to deal with. Thanks for not being demeaning
    70k for your nanny and preschool? 40-50K for two kids in private schools?
    These are the elite private school in SF
    SI, which I am sure is beneath your offspring, is $15K per year. SH would be less I am sure. How much would St Cecilia’s be for K-8?

  22. “Even on 3X that income my wife and I can’t quite balance the books (and it ain’t the mortgage – $1300/mo in our case).”
    So what are you doing with the other 10-12K per month you take home?
    I assume your post was satire?

  23. I’ll ignore your ad hominem, Zig, and just state the facts:
    Standard nanny rates: $15/hour for 1 kid, $20/hour for 2. I don’t know anyone paying less. Ours is with our younger one full-time (8-7), 5 days a week, and with both during non-preschool hours. This means annual pay of ~$45k. Daycare is not an option, given the hours my wife and I work (we’re both lawyers) or the requirement that you pull your kid if he’s got a cold.
    Preschool for the older one: roughly $15k all in.
    So I guess it’s more like $60k. I wasn’t complaining about it though. Just pointing out that we couldn’t afford it on a household income of $100k a year. Different people make different choices, have different flexibility in their schedules, and have different needs. As I went on to point out, I envy Minnarez’s contentment. That was sincere–not some condescending or “arrogant” faux-sentiment.
    BTW, “SI” (no idea what that is) at $15k x 2 still = $30k/year, which in my book is not nearly affordable on a pre-tax $100k.

  24. And I thought this post was about SOMA Grand.
    The MLS listing has 14 photos. Only three are of the unit that is for sale. I don’t know what a “lifestyle condo” is, but that bathroom didn’t look very upscale to me. Having to step into a bathtub to take a shower is not my idea of high end.
    These prices are starting to look reasonable, but they seem to be selling all these amenities, such as a club house (how often are you really going to use that?) and concierge (one more person to tip at xmas).
    Once all the units are sold, will the HOA have the option of dumping some of these services and reducing the HOA fees? I can make my own restaurant reservations, buy my own theatre tickets, and vacuum my own home. I really don’t see the value in these amenities, unless you are half a step away from needing assisted living.
    I walk past this building twice a day and can tell you that the loitering drug addicts, ex-cons, and homeless are on all four sides of this block – constantly – not “a few blocks away.” Some days it is like walking a gauntlet to get past them.
    If the presence of U.S. Marshalls and security cameras at the courthouse and federal building don’t keep them away, additional tenants in the building next door aren’t going to make much of a difference.
    I think “up and coming” is beyond marketing and without any merit. The only neighborhood that I have seen go from seedy to desirable is Hayes Valley, and it took and earthquake and a freeway demolition for that to happen.

  25. “If the presence of U.S. Marshalls and security cameras at the courthouse and federal building don’t keep them away, additional tenants in the building next door aren’t going to make much of a difference.”
    Hahaha! Yeah, I don’t think this hood is too “Grand”.

  26. Shza
    SI is Saint Ignatius, the best Catholic High School in San Francisco and a well regarded one(at least in some circles). Its run by the Jesuit order.
    That fact that your preschool costs as much seems a bit odd to me but this is a choice you make which is fine since you have the means.
    But you don’t struggle so please don’t say that you do (I’ll admit I was conflating your comment with another of the person who can hardly make it on 300K). You people live in a bubble with all of the “real SF” crap on this board.
    Real SF is the Excelsior, Richmond, Ingleside, Mission Terrance etc. You know, where like 80% of the people here live.

  27. Sorry for hijacking this thread but I have one more comment to make.
    The majority of children in the private Catholic schools in this city are not from rich families. They get tuition aid. Some just come from middle class families who work hard.
    SI, the best Catholic high school is 15K or so. SH and Riordan high would have to be less
    The K-8s are much less than this.
    I have all sorts of family and friends who have gone or are sending their kids to these schools and hardly a banker or lawyer in the bunch
    Just a little perspective as this board gets pretty heavy with the BS sometimes

  28. “hardly a banker or lawyer in the bunch
    Was that a religious stereotype or what?”
    No a class stereotype. Sensitive much?

  29. Minnarrez- don’t know about the Catholic schools, but $100K income (and even higher) would get tuition assistance at most of the independent private schools….

  30. “If the presence of U.S. Marshalls and security cameras at the courthouse and federal building don’t keep them away, additional tenants in the building next door aren’t going to make much of a difference.”
    Good lord, the security staff at the federal building aren’t there to chase away booger picking panhandlers. The building is a terrorist target and they’re there to protect their occupants from harm.
    If a shabby homeless person were to approach the entrance of the fed building with a full shopping cart, then you’ll see a reaction from security. They’re concerned that the cart might contain something more dangerous than recyclables. A sharply dressed lawyer dragging a cart full of documents will receive similar attention.
    On the other hand the presence of Soma Grand residents will have a much greater effect on reducing the petty quality of life street crimes. Eyes on the street from common concerned citizens can have a significant impact by alerting SFPD to problems and encouraging them to act.

  31. Thx WSS, that’s actually ideal as a I’d probably burst into flames upon stepping onto Catholic church property. 🙂

  32. I try to avoid that area at all costs. There are far too many people with serious mental health & substance abuse issues just walking the streets. It’s probably safe but the stench of urine and other human waste is too much for me to handle. For those who live in the area, do you think you have simply adjusted to the quality of life issues and are conditioned to the general decay? I used to live in the Tenderloin and thought it was OK until I moved out and realized how bad it truly is.

  33. I’ve walked this area many times while looking at Soma Grand.
    I don’t smell urine at all.
    When I’m in the Tenderloin, it smells really bad.
    But I really don’t smell anything around Soma Grand.

  34. “I don’t smell urine at all.
    When I’m in the Tenderloin, it smells really bad.
    But I really don’t smell anything around Soma Grand”.
    What is sad is that things are in such a state of collapse that we are happy when a street does NOT smell like urine. “Look, no feces on my driveway today” What a city! Sigh….

  35. “What is sad is that things are in such a state of collapse that we are happy when a street does NOT smell like urine. “Look, no feces on my driveway today” What a city! Sigh….”
    Just a need to address social issues strewn throughout the city. Not the end of the world. I just hope the city could do something in a politically correct way to benefit the facts of life that face many residence throughout the city.

  36. “in a politically correct way”
    Just curious, what is exactly is the “politically correct way” of stopping people from pooping on the streets? A while back a rather popular Mission website blog posted a picture of someone laying on the street collapsed with his vomit and feces nearby, and the author was attacked by various posters as being “too white” and “Too Marina” for pointing out the decay of Mission street conditions. There is something terribly wrong when the political culture of a city frowns on anyone pointing out unacceptable behavior. Nobody should use San Francisco streets as a toilet.

  37. What I can never figure out is why, whenever someone complains about urine and feces (or crime or anything negative, for that matter) in SF, you get all these people on SocketSite (and other local blogs too) saying, “you should go live in Contra Costa County if you can’t handle living in an urban environment.” Those sorts of comments are really non-responsive to the complaint — the people giving the criticism do like many elements of the city, but also dislike certain elements of it.
    The right answer would be to want to improve the city and fix its negative elements. For better or for worse, Giuliani did a better job of fixing these sorts of problems in Manhattan, than the mayor/BOS has ever done here. Residents of SF should be more solution-oriented about the city’s problems, rather than being complacent with the poor status quo as some sort of misplaced civic pride.

  38. The politically correct comment was more or less my way of mocking how politics work sometimes. In other words, not seemingly capable of doing enough to clean up the streets without having some group complaining resulting in doing nothing.
    I totally agree — facts are facts and without acknowledging the existence of social issues that surround many parts of San Francisco, nothing can be done. Sitting tight and pointing fingers really isn’t going to do much for an issue that has been around for years. I’m sure there is no easy solution but there needs to be some progress for the obvious.

  39. Sigh has it right. People on those types of blogs make those criticisms even when someone points out a crime that occurred! Do only white people and residents of the Marina want a better San Francisco? Of course, you have to add the fact that the ironic types will say something like “LOL, Mission’s still got it,” (see the link below) again as some sort of misplaced civic pride. It’s sad.

  40. “The right answer would be to want to improve the city and fix its negative elements”
    Totally agree. I spend much of my life in Manhattan and the changes that were done to the city are quite incredible and a bit of a symbol for showing that something CAN be done about issues on the streets here in SF.

  41. Posted by the LISTING AGENT:
    Unbelievable, what blogging turns into.
    This is a great unit. There are numerous photos on the MLS. The building has so many great amenities. It’s really an oasis in the city. More so than other high rises I’ve visited. The HOA is higher because I’ve included the parking maintenance fee of $73. There are view photos soon to come. Some of the terrific views are still being obstructed by SOMA Grand’s advertising. However, there are water and city views. There is nothing comparable to this property, in this price point currently on the market. Just look at the inventory on the MLS and in new construction. Granted there are some challenges with the neighborhood, there are challenges in almost all neighborhoods, especially ALL areas of districts 8 and 9. San Francisco IS block by block and Mission between 7th and 8th Streets has and continues to transform into an attractive location to reside. You won’t find new construction, with these views, location and square footage anywhere else in SOMA. This is the southwest corner and does not view city hall. An excellent value. We have a great amount of interest. And welcome all parties to attend. We will be open from 12-4 PM this Saturday and Sunday.
    Happy House Hunting!

  42. $73/mo to maintain a parking space ? Nearly $900/yr seems kinda high to me.
    What sort of maintenance does a parking garage require ? Annual replacement of lighting and monthly sweeping ?

  43. Is it true the units do not have air conditioning? Also, why is the “parking maintenance fee” seperate from the HOA fee?
    I would gladly sweep my own parking space every month to save the $800 a year maintenance fee. I am surprised a garage would require such high costs to maintain.

  44. Translation:
    “[standard cheerleading] [standard “it’s all micro, bro”] [standard unable to differentiate between this condo and all the other numerous overpriced condos South of Market]
    But at least I’m disclosing that the building has stupid ads that block the views.”
    Does the ’08 block have better views than the ’07 block in this building? I noticed that #1907 costs more per square foot than #1708, but less than #2208.

  45. Sorry, I meant to say that #1907 is almost the same per sqft as #1708 (maybe $3 difference) — so it sounds like maybe ’08 has a better view and a price premium.

  46. “I don’t smell urine at all.”
    “I don’t smell urine at all.”
    Ummm…I was heading to Bossa Nova a couple of Fridays ago and a gentlemen was relieving himself right in middle of the Federal Building Plaza. The sad thing is nobody was around (or cared) to do anything. This area is OK to hang out for drinks or dinner but living in it is a little too overwhelming for my liking. Of course you can adjust to live in any environment but with the glut of condos honestly why bother?

  47. anonconfused – you owe me a coke.
    As to your question, I’d guess that Soma Grand has unbundled parking from the residences which I think is a great idea. If you don’t want or need a car then you don’t have to bear the costs of a parking space.
    This is a great part of town to live if you use transit.

  48. Willow:
    Blame it on the Bossa Nova
    With its magic spell
    Agree — with all the other overpriced condos you can buy, I don’t see why one in a marginal area (the Bottom Sirloin? the Round? if we’re going by British cuts of beef, it could be called the Flank) is compelling.

  49. To answer a few questions regarding what I know about the building.
    1) Parking is maintained by a separate company and therefore is separate from the HOA (they handle Valet parking, etc). Although for residence, valet parking is optional and you can park in the separate designated private portion of the garage in any spot that is not independently owned (which is a fee of 40k+). There are no issues finding a spot in there.
    2) Not sure if parking fees differ case to case but it is normally $93/month for maintenance. Yes with HOA it is pretty up there but compared to other new developments it isn’t anything different. You do have a lot of amenities and twice a month housekeeping.
    3) the 08 stack has different views and a different floorplan. It is actually eastward facing (towards downtown) and every room has a view east. It also has a larger floorplan with a small den/nook area with the living space and a quasi-balcony standing area.
    The 07 stack is southwest facing (corner unit) and floors 14-20 currently have an advertisement (that is actually transparent, so not too bad) on 2 of the 4 windows which should be down when the last (

  50. “you owe me a coke” , indeed I do. Sorry Milkshake, I posted and then saw your post along with mine and became REALLY confused as to which one was mine. (Another reason for my name)
    Did not mean to duplicate your thoughts.
    BUT, back to a another question I have always been curious about, which is why no air conditioning in certain new S.F. high rise condos, including the Soma Grand? A friend told me he was recently attending a party in this building, and although the views were amazing, the condo was cooking because the windows could only be opened so far.
    Is it typical for newer San Francisco high rise units not to have air conditioning? I would think a south facing unit could become quite warm, even in the moderate climate of San Francisco.

  51. Well the neighborhood is what it is….so really it depends on your tolerance level. To me, being so central is an advantage, but ironically, you may need a car to get in and out safely!
    As for the SG units themselves – I agree with the poster who commented on the bathroom being poorly finished – it is that – very, very basic. Also when I went by a few times to look at some units there was black dust around some of the air vents in the units. I was told this was from early testing…nevertheless…unfortunate that whatever it was got into the ventilation system. Overall, the place just seemed to be a little careless.

  52. Ah, valet parking. That explains the high maintenance fees. 24/7 staff is not cheap.
    As for the heating of south facing units, the best bet at controlling heat would be to cover those windows with some light colored shades. The greenhouse effect could cause them to cook like a car parked in the sun.
    It is too bad that the windows do not open wider because a nice cross draft would neutralize the greenhouse effect. What was the rationale for not allowing windows to open wider ?

  53. “On the other hand the presence of Soma Grand residents will have a much greater effect on reducing the petty quality of life street crimes. Eyes on the street from common concerned citizens can have a significant impact by alerting SFPD to problems and encouraging them to act.”
    Really? How exactly is that going to work? The entire Stevenson Street side of the federal building is one continuing cement bench, about a block long. The 7th Street side has dozens of cement blocks, probably intended to keep anyone from being able to drive a truck through the building. They couldn’t have designed a better magnet for the homeless, drug addicts, and SRO residents who have nothing else to do and nowhere else to go. Walk by this place anytime of the night or day and there are unsavory types – a lot of them – hanging out here. And when they have to go to the bathroom, you can be sure they don’t walk down Market Street to the nearest pay toilet.
    If they had simply made these surfaces round, inclined, or peaked, these people would be hanging out at the Civic Center public library, where they belong.
    The Market Street side of this block is chock full of people openly selling drugs and the non-stop “sidewalk sales” of junk, most of which were probably stolen out of people’s cars.
    Yes, every block of this district is different. What is unique about this one is that all four sides of it are overrun with bums.
    I can’t imagine that having more people living on the block is going to result in any improvement. What percent of the homeowner or tenants of the apartments next door are going to start a community group or even call the police? Unless violent crimes are being committed, these people will be allowed to monopolize this space and make unattractive for any decent people who might want to use it.
    It’s sad that so much effort went into designing that federal building to be environmentally friendly without considering the effect the design would have on the human environment.
    Mr. or Ms. Real Estate Agent: If I buy a condo in SOMA Bland, where would you suggest I go when I need a bottle of aspirin or half gallon of milk? The liquor store on 7th Street where the dealers and beggers buy their pints? Where would you suggest I take my dry cleaning?
    As another poster pointed out, as close as this building is to BART and Muni, the neighborhood unfortunately makes a car a necessity.

  54. “As another poster pointed out, as close as this building is to BART and Muni, the neighborhood unfortunately makes a car a necessity.”
    Everyone has his and her opinion and if that’s how you feel then the place is not for you.
    To answer a few questions about the area: Walgreens not too far away, harvest urban market a half block down 8th, dry cleaning downstairs. Any loitering can be mentioned to security and they will have the police move them. Soma Grand also has community meetings with the Police captain in order to talk about ways to improve the comfort of residents in the area monthly.
    Personally people sleeping in the alleys don’t prevent me from walking around the area and using public transportation.

  55. “if that’s how you feel then the place is not for you”
    Apparently, they are not for more and more people every day, if they are dropping 15% per year in price.

  56. You misinterpreted my comment bgelldawg. I never said that Soma Grand residents would fix the problems, just that their presence would have a greater effect than the fed building security staff.
    I stand by my comment that the soma grand population will improve conditions, how much I don’t know. Enforcement of petty crimes is in part driven by political pressures. Insertion of a thousand new voters who care about this particular area will have an effect.
    That’s interesting about the fed building architecture accommodating loitering. I’d think that experienced architects would be aware of the principles of affordances and would have imagined how this area would be used. Perhaps this was intentional ?

  57. Is it the temperate climate, or a civic indifference of the general population of San Francisco that has caused the current problems that are being discussed around the Soma “Grand” and other parts of the city. I have read before where people excuse these problems because of San Francisco’s density, climate, or political acceptance, but should that be the end of the discussion?
    How is it that a city government allows the plazas and parks around it’s administrative buildings to become the public sewer they have in recent years? One of my fascinations is the bar at Zuni Restaurant which is nearby. While patrons sip wine, a parade of homeless moves along outside, and many times they stop and will stare back through the windows trying to get recognition, or at least a reaction. Zuni is off my list of places to take out ot town visitors since the experience to many of them is almost Third World as if we were British Colonists sipping tea while the general population outside starves.
    So now with the Soma Grand, my curiosity is, what is it like to sleep directly above such squalor below? I have long felt that the middle of the night yelling and howls heard in this neighborhood and other parts of the city is the homeless person’s way of reminding the comfortable that they exist. I don’t know what the solution is, but I do know that this problem is by far worse in San Francisco that any other city I have lived in, and those other cities were much larger and less wealthy on a per capita basis.

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