The proposed design for 2200 Market at 15th Street via Curbed above. As the corner and Thai House Restaurant currently stand below.
As proposed the single story restaurant and surface area parking lot will become a restaurant and retail on the ground floor with 22 residential units in four additonal stories over, and 12 parking spaces (including one for car share) beneath.
I like. Simple, but nice.
Agree. This is a handsome building. It will be a nice addition to the street.
I suspect that the demand in this neighborhood for a quality development like this would be high. I wish there were 10 of these in the neighborhood. Inventory in this area <$1M sucks.
Simple and clean lines, but not just another brutal block of concrete and glass. I like it. And it looks SO much better than what is there now. Are the neighbors complaining about potential shadows or has that been mitigated.?
I live in this neighborhood because there are few 55 foot high buildings. Left New York for a reason high density urban living breeds rats, lots and lots of RATS!
I would like to keep it that way. Less rats.
The design is okay (2000’s boring) but I think all it will do in the long run is decrease the value of lower height Victorians homes on that block of 15th Street.
One looses the ability to see the hillside rise. the view of the pink building former St Josephs hospital, on the side of Buena Vista, or the treetops of thr rising streets in the Triangle.
You looose the ability to see the gently rolling hillside that give San Francisco it’s charm.
Obliterated by a big box that is not producing the type of housing this city desparately needs: low income and senior housing. How many more empty storefronts do we need on market street?
Maybe all these developers can move to Lexington, the dirt must be cheaper there.
The design is okay (2000’s boring) but I think all it will do in the long run is decrease the value of lower height Victorians homes on that block of 15th Street.
Um, so?
And, it will also allow 22 more households to live in the neighborhood, in the long run, no?
I can’t quite describe it, but it reminds me of a 5-story thai house (maybe the overhang on the top, the glass and the color?) If only it had a couple more floors…
i like it.
Are there any other diagrams/renderings for this building ? The Market side rendering doesn’t reveal the shape of the boulding. I’d like to determine whether this feeds my flatiron fetish. (this website has a fetish fetish, so I gotta get mine together :-).
Also I do not understand the comments comparing this building to Lexington, KY at all. Can someone elaborate ?
but do agree that it shouod have been 7-8 floors instead of 5.
One looses the ability to see the hillside rise. the view of the pink building former St Josephs hospital, on the side of Buena Vista, or the treetops of thr rising streets in the Triangle.
You looose the ability to see the gently rolling hillside that give San Francisco it’s charm.
I’m sure if you walk about 100 feet in any direction you regain your views.
I think it’s a great move for the neighborhood and the block. Not spectacular, but provides much needed housing (and some visual interest).
As for degrading the value of the Victorians on 15th… there is no way this building will be any more harmful to neighborhood values than Beck’s Motor Lodge (next door to this site), which is a notorious cruising spot.
Boy people are spelling poorly this morning. And Kathleen, please look up the definition of loose vs lose (I don’t think there is a definition for looose..).
Rats? Hardly rates response. There are tons of norway rats in my neighborhood and it’s all single family.
don’t worry, milkshake, this is an extreme flatiron building. Those end balconies highlight it…they’re probably not particularly useful, but they do suggest a Titanic moment to me, and would have a fantastic view nearly straight down Market Street.
finally, the only nimby sympathy I can come up with is the impact on the view of Corona/Buena Vista from Market. There’s something really special about the way you see the green hillsides rising up above Market Street. I’d actually have to get on the street and check it out, but at this height and size, I don’t think it’s going to be a major problem.
Now, if they can just find some financing to build it. Good luck!
Seems pretty cool. The balconies on the end will be outstanding for go-go dancing drag queens at Holloween.
mjp…since they installed gates a couple years back Becks is not the tawdry place it used to be…
this city is all about money, land values, and greed. and no, i’m not talking about the developers…
I like the orange accents, reminds me of Arterra. Is it the same architect?
I think it will be a great addition to the neighborhood. We need new residential construction in this area. I think it’s just a touch to tall but I can live with it…
“Boy people are spelling poorly this morning.”
I think anon’s spelling was meant as a joke. But that’s joost my guest.
I think it is a nice design. I had the same instinct as Anna regarding the Orange accents. Designed by the same Architect? I wonder.
It reminds me more of The Artani.
@ kathleen…yea, work on on your spelling. it’s lose not loose.
and uh….if you can’t see the hillside rising…you can always just walk a few feet to the north and look up 15th St…..just saying..
This is going to be a nice project. Simple, fresh modern facade..shouldnt offend too many of the Nimbys…hope this gets built very soon.
I think it is a terrific looking building; but at five stories, does it require a height variance? Anyone know?
^^^No, it’s within the height allowed for this site.
noearch, it’s also “yeah” and not “yea.”
Agree that this would be a huge improvement over that ugly restaurant space. Is having that few parking spaces to units typical though? I know it’s right by the castro muni, but you might want/need to drive into Marin or SV or take any number of day/weekend trips that would require a car. Maybe zipcar is far more reliable and reasonable than I would have expected?
Those glass panels are too slippery for rats to scale, anyway, but there’s potential for a verminous gecko problem.
p.s. I hear rats really like cheap Asian restaurants.
Kathleen: You must have taken the NY rats with you when you moved to SF. I moved to NYC a year ago and saw more rats in SF than I have here! I’m mostly just giving you a hard time. I do appreciate a nice rat sighting while I’m waiting for the subway train. Helps pass the time. 🙂
shza, how unreliable did you expect Zipcar to be? You book when you want a car online and you go pick it up. It’s not hard, it’s always reliable, period. For weekend trips I’d suggest a regular rental place though – I routinely get Enterprise or Hertz to give me a car Friday afternoon through Monday afternoon for $60 or so.
Kathleen,
>>Obliterated by a big box that is not producing the type of housing this city desparately needs: low income and senior housing. How many more empty storefronts do we need on market street?
Its nice but it really needs some victorian trim to make it blend with the neighborhood. A few more bay windows would also be nice. OH, and fewer units. I don’t want to high of high density. And can you keep the great Thai restaurant open while you construct it. Also no parking. But other wise I think it is a great addition to the neighborhood.
@ shza:
Yeah is an accepted and often used synonym for “yea”..
both are valid…look it up in any dictionary.
so there.
lol sunset guy
I think San Francisco should only have cute Victorian cottages on 10,000 square foot lots. So we can see views of the hills, don’t you know? Sorry if that means 2/3 of you have to leave the City…but my views are more important. Oh…and what’s with the Spanish-y name and design? San Francisco should have an all-American name that distinguishes it from big bad evil cities. Maybe “Pleasantville”? And hire the Disney Corporation to enforce the design regulations!
I keep seeing people posting as if views are sacred in SF. They’re not. “I’m objecting to that because I want my views” by and large will only gum up the works for a few months.
But that said, the planning department would certainly like it if everybody built faux Victorian. Heck. They will make you tack on another five feet or so of useless peaked rooftop so that it looks faux Victorian. That might happen even if you tried to make your roof flat in order for your neighbor to preserve his/her views.
Neighborhood thought police certainly does like Victorian. Lets just keep everything the way they remember it……….oops most of them aren’t from here. I forget who put them in charge?
By the way editor, I thought the little pun in the header of the post was pretty funny. I’ve been to this Thai restaurant a couple of “thaims” — and while it is fine, the proposed use will be an improvement . . .
Nice looking building. Giants colors. But I have my doubts it will be that attractive if actually built.
The units look like they will be very narrow. Will the building occupy the entire lot? I can’t tell if there is a setback or yard in the back.
“Neighborhood thought police certainly does like Victorian. Lets just keep everything the way they remember it……….oops most of them aren’t from here. I forget who put them in charge?”
Nobody. They aren’t in charge. DBI likes sameness, and that is a big problem.
well…not completely true that the Planning Dept. only likes Victorians…there is some good modern work being built in the neighborhoods, even in Noe V..
You can get modern work approved by Planning; it needs to be well designed and well thought out. trouble is, there are a number of hack architects out there (yes they do exist) who prefer to quickly crank out a “fake Victorian” facade cause it’s easy..and usually results in quicker approval time. I dont support that, but it’s reality.
On the other side, neighbors do need to educate themselves on good, modern architecture and be more open minded to accept more than just faux Victorian.
This posting has a link to the CUrbed article, which also has a view of the backside of the building. It took me a few seconds to realize what it was… But then maybe I’m just slow in this heat.
“One looses the ability to see the hillside rise. the view of the pink building former St Josephs hospital, on the side of Buena Vista, or the treetops of thr rising streets in the Triangle.”
I say move into a top unit!
Actually I think of Market St. as a auto thoroughfare and don’t pay attention to the views, much. It’s too “busy” (in more ways then one) to be taking in the views. Though any structure along Market that disrupts the view of Twin Peaks from downtown ought to be bombed. I think THAT view is sacrosanct. 🙂 I love standing on Market St. and either looking towards the Ferry Building or Twin Peaks. Especially looking towards Twin Peaks from downtown as the summer fog rolls in over the hills.
I like this building and hope it goes up. I think Market St. should be lined with such buildings (height-wise). Right now it’s just such a mix of spaces, including many (not all) loser spaces west of Van Ness. It would be beneficial to have someone other than homeless people live in that area. Density creates energy and vibrancy.
Next spot to go should be the old Gap store (now the pet store) across from Safeway. Don’t get me wrong- I love the pet store for my cats, but like many places along Market west of Van Ness the lot just feels awkward.
These are the most positive comments I’ve ever seen on SS. That’s great. But given the NIMBYs, I’m almost certain someone will try to turn the Thai House Restaurant into an historic preservation site to stop construction. Anyone remember the Daphne Funeral Home on Church & Herman? Historic preservation…don’t make me laugh when my lips are chapped.
This posting has a link to the CUrbed article, which also has a view of the backside of the building. It took me a few seconds to realize what it was… But then maybe I’m just slow in this heat.
I agree. This building doesn’t go with itself. the “front” and “back” are nothing alike (color or shape). I guess that’s fine… but I normally think a building should have some sort of continuity. It looks like 2-3 completely separate buildings.
(the front side is grey/orange, the back side is grey on the far left and far right, then white in the middle)
someone on the curbed thread stated they liked it as it breaks up the building… perhaps that was the intent, to make the building scale better for the ‘hood?
as for the orange: are you sure it’s orange, and not copper? There are a few buildings I’ve seen that are very similar to this one, except it’s not an orange color, it’s copper. If done well it looks great. It would look fine as orange too
Its like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. I don’t get it. Why not continue the same look around the building? 15th street really has a muddled, confused pattern to it.
The back is probably different to make it look like multiple buildings so it’s visually not as big.
The characteristics of the light, wind, and traffic are very different for each side of the building, so it makes sense that each side would have its own adaptations. The whole project has a kind of generic mix mastered modernity feel.
I am not a big fan of all the black — I think it is depressing and ages poorly, but overall the design is fine.
I think it is odd that someone thinks this shouldn’t be build because the City “desparately needs low-income and senior housing”. I am sure this place will have the city required amount of affordable units. But otherwise there is also a real need for more market rate housing in the City. This actually stand a chance of being built, so unlike more utopian ideas it is actually a reasonable proposal.
I think the design has curb appeal and is street friendly. 1:2 parking seems a good compromise for the area. Hey, what happended to the period street lights, the rail power lines, and the MUNI stop? Speaking of which, can we have a bus shelter to match the street lamp style? (Is it beaux arts?) 🙂
I find the attitude of some City dwellers and City government that developers pay exorbitant fees to subsidize low income housing despicable and anathema to encouraging a functional growth plan. Why exactly must this type of housing be built on expensive urban core land? Why not TODs along BART, Caltrain, and Amtrak rail? It would be *much* cheaper to build in the suburban areas and subsidize the train fares for employees of companies located in the City.
I say developer fees should be used for developing the neighborhood to ALL the residents’ benefit! Properly maintained roads, cleaner sidewalks, street level culture, and yes, rehabilitation programs for street dwellers (even if located outside City limits).
as a young architect many years ago, I was once quoted this little phrase by my mentor and the firm principal, Robert Marquis, with regard to making every elevation the same:
“consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds”…
“desparately needs low-income and senior housing”
There’s already plenty of senior housing … it’s called Florida.
@ diemos
so, when you moving there? I think your comment was uncalled for.
“…not producing the type of housing this city desperately needs: low income and senior housing. How many more empty storefronts do we need on market street? Maybe all these developers can move to Lexington…”
I know I should know better by now, but I’m still utterly dumbfounded by the logic of this statement.
I really like this building. And definitely better than what’s there now.
I would get rid of the orange hues, though. What’s that about?
“so, when you moving there? I think your comment was uncalled for.”
Not for one moment do I ever forget that living in SF is a privilege and not a right. A privilege that is given only to those who can afford it. When the day comes that living in SF becomes a luxury that I cannot afford you can be sure that I and the U-haul will be headed for greener (or at least cheaper) pastures. Denver, probably.
A while ago there was a sob story in the chron about an elderly lady who just couldn’t afford to live here and was arguing that she needed government help to get by. Then the article let slip that she owned her home out in the sunset.
And all I could think was, “Freakin’ hell lady. You have more wealth than I do. What do you need with my tax dollars. Sell the SF place, buy a place in Florida, and you’ll have all the money you’ll need to live comfortably until you die. And not only that, you’ll be freeing up a dwelling for someone who actually NEEDS to be here in order to be close to their job.”
Sorry noearch but my comment was not only called for it was poignant, cogent and apropo.
“so, when you moving there [Florida]? I think your comment was uncalled for.”
For me, for the 2010 tax year. SF will have to do without me (hold back your tears, SS’ers, lol). For tax reasons, solely (expiration of Bush era preferential capital gains treatment and other timing considerations require realizing a long held asset) – we’ve enjoyed living in CA.
Any other SS’ers out there planning to leave CA for tax reasons?
About diemos’ comment, they don’t call Florida “God’s Waiting Room” for nothing 😉
diemos – that sounds exactly like my thought every time someone makes the claim that without prop 13 seniors on a fixed income would “be tossed out of their homes”
“Any other SS’ers out there planning to leave CA for tax reasons?”
Taxes would have to become really onerous to get me to move out of the bay area. I truly think that the bay area (the whole region, not just The City) is special and worth the extra costs. Though I’d rather live in Mt. View than SF if the gap in ownership costs for the similar amenities remains so large.
No plans to move as of yet — I think a smaller, poorer, more realistic San Francisco is just what the doctor ordered. I think it would be a more livable city, and there are still lots of income earning opportunities here.
OTOH, my sister just put in a bid on a house in downtown Phoenix — 28K. She’s a painter and will use it as her studio. Life after the bubble is good, too.
sorry to disagree, but I do..I took the comment by diemos as being rather snarky and smartass..first of all, he’s sterotyping florida as being full of seniors and senior housing. does he prefer to ship all seniors there who cant afford to live here?
A great city is made up of a mix of ALL kinds of housing, low income and senior included. The trouble is, yes, this city IS becoming a city for the wealthy only. We need to build more housing of all kinds, for all kinds of people. And yes, having some seniors be able to live right in the mix of the Castro creates a more integrated neighborhood, not just a ‘hood full of young gay and straight people, and clubs and bars, but a real neighborhood of all ages and incomes.
I live up the hill on Buena Vista Terrace. I’m thrilled by the development – and hope we see more. What a great place for retirees. Close to the hospital, bottom of the hill (very little climbing), close to public transportation and stores. Hope they include good security.