The “official” range of dates for The Infinity’s first close of escrow: Q1 2008; the first release of inventory in the second tower: Q3 2008 (although some swear they’ve been quoted as early as March); and the completion date for the whole shebang: Q2 2009.
The “official” numbers we haven’t received: sales to date on tower one and the mid-rises. And while we’ve heard some rumblings of around seventy (70) percent reserved (which actually seems a bit low), we’re really looking for some hard numbers (or at least percentages). So if you’re plugged-in and have the inside scoop, it’s time to cough it up. And yes, you know we’d do the same for you.
∙ The Infinity: Pent-up Demand (For Discussion) [SocketSite]
∙ Same Location, Building And Amenities (Just Without The Views) [SocketSite]
That 70% comprise of both the tower and midrises(treetops) and is probably on the low end.
I can tell you this much – the last few weeks, Infinity has only been advertising the treetops with scarcely a mention of the tower (check the Sat/Sun Chronicle the last few weeks). Also, on Aug 13, Infinity sent out an email promoting the treetops as a less expensive alternative to the tower.
So since Infinity has stopped advertising the tower, it’s probably 90-95% sold out on the tower and maybe 50-60% sold in the treetops?
A pretty healthy number if you ask me…
I’ve also heard the tower is just about sold out. And if they’re no longer promoting it they must be close to 100 percent no?
That’s a great shot of the building’s location. The proximity to that waterfront is wonderful. What a priceless amenity!
That building just looks better every time I see it. Looking at these dates, however, I’m left wondering if those who move in to the midrises and first tower are going to live in a construction zone for a year? Will the common area in the middle be done or will it house construction gear for the second tower. I’ve planned on moving in during April, but don’t want to move in until I can use the entire property.
“So since Infinity has stopped advertising the tower, it’s probably 90-95% sold out on the tower and maybe 50-60% sold in the treetops?
A pretty healthy number if you ask me…”
You make a guess and then you qualify it as a healthy number?
Does anybody have any real stats about the infinity? More than just a guess?
I like the tower but am worried as to how the second tower will crowd the site.
I thought move in dates was starting in March?? They plan to close 10 the first month and more the following. The first to close is the midrise on Main.
Dont quote me on this but that’s what the sales office told me 5 months ago.
The building does look beautiful!
I just have to say I’m VERY excited to know folks will be moving into Infinity and One Rincon Hill within the next year. You do have to watch out for the construction folks in their work zones…. if I weren’t paying attention a few months ago on a Saturday morning, I would have been smushed by one of those pallet loading things by a driver who decided to back up all the way across Main and up onto the sidewalk beside the US postal service building. Pedestrians need jet packs in this town, honestly.
Does anyone know the floor plans in the 2nd tower? Is it the same as the 1st tower? It seems that with the majority of the corner units in the 1st tower have the same layout — I think it would be a shame if the 2nd tower had those same layouts.
Yes, I was told the midrise on main will be the first to close (it has all the amenities). I was also told that they’ll finish the exterior of the second tower before moving everyone in so that the remaining construction will be inside the units. I don’t see how that’s possible given how much is left to do on tower 2, but….
For those you bought, have you locked in rates? If so, what and why and with who?
What is the expected timing for the second tower?
Good info Mike!
I thought they were going to move people in slowly when they continue to build the 2nd tower. I would hate to move into the building when they are still building the 2nd tower. Makes sense for them to wait the move in until the area is livable.
So instead of March, most likely it’ll be pushed back?
Anybody with the info?
“I thought move in dates was starting in March?? They plan to close 10 the first month and more the following. The first to close is the midrise on Main.
Dont quote me on this but that’s what the sales office told me 5 months ago.”
I was told the same thing when I was at the office in June except it would start in Feb. Maybe they moved it down a month. Since the midrise will finish first, do anyone know when folks will starting moving into the tower??
Regarding the sales number, back in June they had about 15 or so units left in the tower to show me. The tower has approx 250 units. I was told the treetops were around 50% sold. Given those numbers, that leaves the tower at around 90-95% reserved. Still not “official stats”, but probably as close as we’ll get unless someone gets the sales office to spill the beans….
I was told by my sales rep three weeks ago that they will start moving in people in February. 25 the first month with 50 each month after that until it is full. She said they would be flexible with when you move in. I’m excitecd to move in, but if I was an investor, I’d try for the latest move in date possible. It’s like capturing appreciation without paying interest, HOA’s, or taxes.
That makes sense Mike.
The treetops hold the gym and pool so the first residents will still have most of the amenities when they move in. I certainly hope though that they finish the glass curtain-wall before letting folks move in. Then hopefully they can ‘wall off’ the second tower and put all the construction gear on the Spear st. side.
Anyone have info on the retail and restaurant establishment that will go on the ground floor? Are we still getting a high-end restaurant, cafe, and gourmet grocery?
Move in for buildings will start in the Main Treetop then to the tower, and last to the Folsom Street Treettop building. The exact time is fuzzy since it depends on the city, PG&E etc., for occupancy OK. Buildings inevitability have some level of revision to plans or permits during inspections and the city is sometimes unpredicatble on their turn times. There is also a capacity in which move-ins can happen (as noted in previous posts). February is realistic for initial move-ins but very few buildings meet their forecasted timeline from 6 monhts out. Amenities should be mostly complete when the first move-ins occur. e.g. building is generally complete but your weight machine may not yet be assembled.
Based on the speed and weather, most of the structure for tower 2 should be complete (no more pounding) and the work will be internal by the time move-in start.
Just some OPINIONs based on a long history of new construction efforts and from discussions from informed and creditable sources.
Mies van der Rohe would be proud.
I sense that Ludwig Mies van der Rohe would find The Infinity more than a bit messy, undulating and complicated.
See the Farnsworth House, the Barcelona Pavilion. Or, for twin residential towers, 860-880 Lake Shore Drive.
My salesperson also said 30 or so move-ins late Feb, then 50-60 month. I recently got a 6-3/4 7 yr IO ARM with a lock till July. While I was negotiating the 30 yr went from 6 3/4 to 7/ 3/8 in a few days so the sub-prime crisis must have started. I’m hoping rates settle down so I can float down when I settle.
anon – did you go with Wells Fargo?
I recently locked in a floating 7/1 interest only ARM for 6.125 with two points. It will float but stay .125 above the standard rate.
I recently locked in a floating 7/1 interest only ARM for 6.125 with two points. It will float but stay .125 above the standard rate.
Wow. Not sure how it makes sense to pay 2 points for a floating IO, but if those are the kind of tricks people are pulling to get into the Infinity, it’s bad news indeed.
That’s my question as well – why are people still getting interest only mortgages? So much talk of “building equity.” News flash: the best way to build equity is pay off your debt.
Mies is rolling over in his grave!
You’ll build equity with an IO loan because real estate in SF only goes up in value 😉
Actually, an IO loan might make sense here so when you walk away from the place in two years after the value of the place drops considerably, you won’t have put in as much (but the 2 points makes no sense).
I wasn’t being condescending, I’m seriously asking why anyone, given the current turmoil in the market, is still looking at I/Os? More importantly, what lender is still providing them without a serious down payment? An interest-only loan is the equivalent of renting with 100% downside risk if prices fall.
An IO loan isn’t a bad strategy if you plan to hold for 5+ years (and you got in EARLY).
It may get ugly in 08/09, but over the long term it could very well turn out to be a fine investment.
I have a friend that bought during the first week of release. 3 months later Infinity was selling comparable units at 10-15% markup and selling well. The ones that bought at the market rate may not get much appreciation, but the early birds get a little bit of a cushion when prices softens so sometimes it does pay to get in during the initial release…
OK, here’s a hypothetical. Prices fall slightly over the next 2-3 years. Say they go down 10%, which is not a doomsday scenario. Then the market stabilizes and starts appreciating at a normal rate, like 3-4%/year. By year 7, you’re where you started, have built NO EQUITY, and your payment is about to balloon. What then?
An IO loan isn’t a bad strategy if you plan to hold for 5+ years (and you got in EARLY).
It may get ugly in 08/09, but over the long term it could very well turn out to be a fine investment.
HOW? When rates were low you could make the argument that the money was cheap and you could profitably invest the rest elsewhere for a higher return. But with a floating IO and interest rates rising, it seems more foolish than it’s ever been.
dude – I am considering a IO loan. I’ve been a traditional, 30 fixed guy on ten years and consider myself on the moderate risky side (despite that conservative past decision). Although I have to admit that my infinity purchase requires somewhat aggressive assumptions to even break even (I’ve built the depreciated cash flow analytics, etc.) when buying this place., I purchased partially from an emotional side — simply, I like it and feel it will be close enough financially to renting, and maybe if the stars align, a slight upside.
With that said, I am likely to go IO this time around. Why? 6.75% on a 7 year ARM vs. 9% in the market. I’d rather take the chance in the stock market with that money vs. paying off the loan at a guaranteed rate of return. Folks can debate the assumptions all they want — and that’s what makes the market so pure and interesting in my opinion.
And I wasn’t being a smart aleck (well, a little). If you think prices are going to fall, but you think, “what the hell, maybe they’ll go up,” it does make some sense to put as little skin into the game as you can, i.e. an IO loan. If the market does let you sell at a profit, you come out ahead, and if it tanks, you walk away with less of a loss.
Not a particularly good strategy overall, but if this is your mindset, an IO loan is not a bad way to hedge since the bank takes most of the risk.
When I said an IO isn’t a bad strategy I forgot to include that the loan shouldn’t have a pre-pay penalty. I’ve owned several properties over the past 4-5 years and I always got a IO loan BUT with no pre-pay penalty. That way, I can pay make a fully amortized payments, but have the luxury of paying IO if needed.
Now the person (like my friend that got in early at Infinity) who gets an IO loan, may only pay interest and hold for 7 years (fixed, not floating for 7 years). Yes, he’ll have little or no equity and may lose 4-5% commission + transfer tax etc., if he/she sells. But will still be in better position than a buyer that bought at market rate and be completely underwater.
This correction will hurt, some worse than others. I was just pointing out IO loans aren’t all that evil if you know how to manage it (pay some principle) and not stretch yourself to the limit.
missionbay – you mentioned transfer tax and real estate commissions. I am likely selling my current place — what can I expect to negotiate as far as commissions to an agent, and do the sellers or buyers typcially pay transfer tax (I bought new last time and paid those).
To each his own. But I’m going to generalize here at the risk of offending many of you: my guess is that you go interest-only because you can’t afford a traditional loan. Which, again, is why I’m amazed people are still doing this despite what the mortgage market is going through right now. Maybe I’m old fashioned, but if you can’t afford a traditional mortgage, you can’t afford the property, period. But it’s your $ and your risk.
Commission these days can run from 4-6% (split between the seller’s and buyer’s agents). I personally have never paid 6%. 4-5% is more the norm now but keep in mind if you pay 4% you may not get the full service (and attention) from your agent. Also paying 4% may discourage some buyer agents from putting your property on the top of their list when showing properties to their clients. Paying a higher commission to the buyer agents may also be beneficial since it could attract more attention from those agents (i.e. 2% to the your agent and 3% to the buyer’s agent).
Sellers normally pay transfer tax unless you buy from the developer.
Hope this helps…
I should add that the “logic” I put out there supporting an IO loan only works if you are able to put very little down. I’d be amazed if any lender would permit that these days. And if you do have the money to put a decent size down, then I agree with Dude: it makes no sense to go with an IO loan.
IO makes a ton of sense if you hold the property a long time. I have a 10 year IO and every month I will take (at a minimum) the difference between a non-IO and an IO loan and invest that in stocks (probably S&P + international). The odds that I don’t come out ahead after a decade are very low — all I have to do is beat 5 – 6% or so (the math isn’t that easy because there are a lot of assumptions to make). Even if I sell or refi before 10 years I’ll most likely come out ahead.
Ok, I agree with Dude that a person shouldn’t stretch themselve to the max with an IO loan.
But I stand by my strategy that getting an IO loan (with 20% down) with no PRE-PAY penalty is OK as long as the person has the ability (and dicipline) to make fully amortized payments or even partial amortized payments (as long as some principle is being paid).
If there’s some unforesee event and the buyer needs a little extra cash for a month or two, then the IO option comes in handy.
It’s certainly not an option for those that can only get by with IO payments (unless they have tons of equity), but for savvy investors and financially stable buyers it’s really a no-lose situation as long as they are able to make the full payments.
“But it’s your $ and your risk.”
If only.
When he walks away and the lender can’t sell for enough to cover the loan it will be whatever pension fund that put up the money for the MBS that get’s the hit.
Unless there’s a bailout in which case it will be the taxpayer who takes the hit.
I haven’t the slightest problem with people gambling / investing their own money. But it’s MY pension fund / money market fund / bond fund / tax dollars that they’re playing with.
“Also paying 4% may discourage some buyer agents from putting your property on the top of their list when showing properties to their clients. Paying a higher commission to the buyer agents may also be beneficial since it could attract more attention from those agents (i.e. 2% to the your agent and 3% to the buyer’s agent).”
huh? I thought all agent’s want a good deal for their clients eventhough the commission??
that’s what all the agents on this site claim to do….
I’m curious if anyone has insight into the average price premium (if any) that second towers have sold at in san francisco (e.g. Metropolitain, Brannan). When I was in the sales office 2 weeks ago they indicated that sales prices would likely increase about 10%, driven somewhat by increases in construction materials.
In July, we bought in the low teens floor in the tower and at the time there were very few units in the tower left. As we complete the contract, we had a chance to look at the open units sell sheet and it was sparse. Seems like the higher sales percentages (e.g. 90%) seems resonable. The building is really coming along nicely…while there may be short term flucuations, I liken the investment to Tower 1 of the Brannan. Quality and location sell.
Has anyone else worked with the Wells Fargo Rep? Experiences? I’ve not been impressed but do like the programs they are offering.
I’m not reading all the comments, but I think I started the interest only thing. Well, it is a financially smart move for me. I get paid $300K + a year, I can afford it. My money works harder for me than my condo likely will. IO is a tool that smart people use to maximize their wealth, and an idiots tool to foreclosure; I’m the former.
Oh, and when I said floating, I meant it floats down, not up, until I lock in the rate at closing. It will be the lowest rate between now and when I close plus .125. That is why I said 7/1 ARM.
I am confused! An attractive high rise that is pleasing to look at, well located with awesome views, and deeded parking got built in San Francisco? Balconies, dryers that vent to the outside, an established neighborhood that is safe and fun to walk in, I just don’t get it. After so many projects claiming to be “luxury” buildings in “neighborhoods” that in reality are not “neighborhoods” at all, Infinity really seems to be the one project to get it right. Thanks to the team that put this project together for not trying to build something that would ruin the skyline, and for adding an attractive work of architecture. Some people say people here are too negative towards new projects, but have you ever noticed that if the project is well designed nobody trys to put it down?
This is a quality project, through and through.
Just like in the dot com mania, when I saw brand new networking companies with no management team, no profits and no business models getting valuations like top flight companies like Cisco, when I saw people comparing other projects to this one, I figured we were in a mania.
Of course, when I saw Mint Plaza go up, I *knew* we were in a mania, but I digress.
I can’t say enough good things about this place. And the arguments that you have to cut all these corners (like location!) but people should pay almost the same price because, well, that’s SF, are just the rationalizations of people caught up in a mania.
That’s a beautiful photo that shows what a great SF project should look like.
“I can’t say enough good things about this place. And the arguments that you have to cut all these corners (like location!) but people should pay almost the same price because, well, that’s SF, are just the rationalizations of people caught up in a mania.”
Tipster, I could not agree more with your comments regarding Infinity. To think that there are other projects, some in areas unsafe to walk or drive through, some without any of the features of Infinity (Parking, etc.) charging as much per square foot or more all because it is in San Francisco, and therefore it should be priced the same whether it is on Russian Hill, or next to a freeway or train line is beyond insane. When this market finally returns to “quality”, Infinity will be my pick for the one new mega-project to hold and increase in value. Just looking at the picture is a pleasure compared to most of the ugly dated new towers.
I would just like to add to the above posts that from a senior’s perspective the Infinity is hard to match. Not only is there fine architecture and many amenities but it is the location that places this project in a class by itself.
For a senior to be one level block (I will be in tree tops building A) from the Muni light rail stop at Folsom and Embarcadero is priceless.
From there it is three stops to ATT Park and Safeway in one direction and four stops to the Symphony and Opera in the other. And all without stairs. And you are in a walking neighborhood that is two blocks from the Ferry Building and a short distance from downtown.
No place is perfect but this may turn out to come close.
“From there it is three stops to ATT Park and Safeway in one direction and four stops to the Symphony and Opera in the other. And all without stairs. And you are in a walking neighborhood that is two blocks from the Ferry Building and a short distance from downtown.”
I couldn’t agree more. Infinity is located in a great ‘walking’ neighborhood. You can walk to the waterfront, Muni stop, Hills Plaza, and 2 brand new restaurants in a heartbeat. Ferry building 5 minutes away. Financial district 5-10 minutes away, ATT park/South Beach 10 minutes away. All without hills or stairs and in a relatively safe location.
And seniorbuyer, you don’t have to take Muni to Safeway. There will be a grocery store on the ground floor along with a restaurant and cafe.
When compared in inferior developments like Palms, SomaGrand, OneRincon, etc., Infinity is competively priced against them all, but with the prime location, pleasing architecture, and DEEDED parking.
“Infinity will be my pick for the one new mega-project to hold and increase in value.”
Careful, there Morgan, when people bought Cisco during the mania, they were buying a top flight company, but they had to compete with other people buying during a mania.
They bought it for 80, it dropped to 15, now it’s up to 30. Although a lot of companies folded, and 30 is better than 0, buying anything in a mania is a big gamble and even the best of anything is hard pressed to hold mania values after the mania goes away. The only companies that didn’t drop after the mania were companies who didn’t have to compete with people participating in the mania. This place was sold in the peak of the mania, so I don’t think it survives unscathed, though you never know.
The best you can expect to emulate is Amazon, which dropped from 60 to 6, and is now back up to 74, about break even on an inflation adjusted basis 6 years later. Yes, you can say it “held its value”, but it sure would have been a lot better to have purchased it two years later at 6 than to pat yourself on the back that you didn’t lose any money at 60.
Nevertheless, senior buyer has it exactly right. If you don’t want to, or can’t, wait (or waiting was not going to help you), then this is the place to be. And senior buyer: keep walking. It will keep you young for many years! No need to take the train to Safeway: it will be a pleasant walk. And walk right on by the grocery store downstairs: all that’s going to do is help you feel older that much sooner.
Good analogy with Amazon – a quality company that has returned (almost) to its 98-00 mania heights. AMZN actually cracked $100 (split-adjusted) a few times back then – so it’s still not even back to its peak (and it is being boosted by a mania-like triple digit PE ratio).
Good point though – quality properties should do fine in the long run. But you still might be able to get them cheaper next year.
The more I look at the Infinity, the more beautiful I think it is. With all the amenities, this place is a winner.
The location cant be beat. Its safe to call it the best new condo development now, but 10 years from now; Infinity will still be #1 in SF. Nothing compares to it now and whatever is in the pipline. This includes all the new residential condos/hotels/office retail buildings….
I’m also an Infinity lover, but one question:
why did the build this tower first, the one further away from the water?
is it to fool Tower 1 purchasers about what the view will actually look like? (since tower 2 will partially obstruct Tower 1’s water view)
or did they figure that Tower 1 is the appetizer, getting us ready for Tower 2?
Thanks ‘missionbay res’ and ‘tipster’ for the kind words. I do walk alot and plan to walk to Safeway in good weather but its great to have light rail nearby for inclement weather and for the return trip with groceries.
One new walking area to mention that is near Infinity: there is a new promenade that has just opened behind the renovated buildings on Piers 1,1 and a half and 3 just north of the Ferry Building.
It is surrounded by handsome bronze fencing which is imbedded with memorable phrases about SF from icons past and present: Herb Caen, Charles de Gaulle, Oscar Wilde, Mark Twain, Jack Kerouac, Walter Cronkite, et al. It also has several benches situated along the way.
This is not a special destination per se but a great spot for reading or for the coffee or sandwich from the Ferry Building when that venue gets too crowded. A fine addition to the waterfront and to the amenities near Infinity.
“I’m also an Infinity lover, but one question:
why did the build this tower first, the one further away from the water?
is it to fool Tower 1 purchasers about what the view will actually look like? (since tower 2 will partially obstruct Tower 1’s water view)”
No no, Infinity isn’t out to fool anyone. They have both buildings as well as the proposed towers across the street (post office lot) laid out in their sales office. Buyers know exactly what view they’re getting. The agents there will even show you the actual pics of the views each unit will have if you’re really interested…
Look for the pricing on the second tower to be 10-15% higher than the first building since it’s taller with less obstruction of the bay (this according to the sales office).
Interesting web page on interest only loans. Anyone contemplating one should read it:
http://www.mtgprofessor.com/A%20-%20Interest%20Only/misperceptions_about_interest-only_loans.html
“Does anyone know the floor plans in the 2nd tower? Is it the same as the 1st tower? It seems that with the majority of the corner units in the 1st tower have the same layout”
The floor plans of the second tower will be pretty much the same as the first tower’s. However, the architects have made improvements to address the needs for those who prefer a more flexible dining situation. This feature was very cleverly done without having to change the floor plans at all (the Millennium tower will be implementing this feature as well). According to Carl Shannon, the second tower will start selling about 10% higher than the first tower, and then from there on the prices will be “substantially higher” especially for the view units.
I’ve been given presentations from the Millennium team. The Millennium tower (the only project in the pipeline that I consider competitive to the Infinity) will feature a range of superb finishes, but not enough to make up for the Infinity’s location advantage IMO. Once construction ends, the site surrounding Infinity will create very strong sense of neighborhood feel. I see Infinity residents enjoying as much time outdoor around the waterfront as they would within this truly magnificent complex. In comparison with all the projects under construction or proposed, there really is no substitute as there won’t be another waterfront location near downtown that offers deeded pkg for every unit again.
Having seen the earlier iterations, I was somewhat skeptical about the mid-rise at first. I thought the final version was too civilized. But as the two mid-rises get completed, they are starting to transform into some of the prettiest buildings in the area. I agree with most people that this development keeps getting better as things come together.
For those who enjoy looking at the Infinity, here’s a website that has lots of images:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=67546&page=16
1. Is the 2nd tower the one that will be higher? if so how high will it be?
2. When they say inventory released in Q2 2008..is that when they start taking deposits?
“1. Is the 2nd tower the one that will be higher? if so how high will it be?”
The 2nd tower is actually “Tower I” that sits at the site’s east corner. It will be 5 stories taller than the 1st tower. You can visit their official website for more information:
http://the-infinity.com/index_flash.html
“2. When they say inventory released in Q2 2008..is that when they start taking deposits?”
Sales will start sometime in the spring. Buyers on the A list will be able to make their picks and put down checks first.
With Google taking up office space (leasing from Gap) in Hills Bros. building, that provides about 800 folks who would probably like to live in the neighborhood.
I think the two towers will be beautiful but I don’t like the mid-rises. They are too boxy, too high, too close together and very metallic. They look like a tetris game. I wish they were lower and less dense which would make the two towers look less stubby. Otherwise, I think it’s a beautiful addition to the neighborhood.
Blahhh…don’t get me wrong, I love the complex but are you sure you’re not working PR for the Infinity? Some of your posts sound like they are taken directly from the Infinity presentations and website.
“Sales will start sometime in the spring. Buyers on the A list will be able to make their picks and put down checks first.”
What “A” list? Will buyers from the first tower get first opportunity to purchase units in the second tower, or will they go by priority or prequalification?
The buildings are nice but I am not so sure about the views. Unless you are high enough, most of the units have or will have their views blocked off by the existing and future developments.
“Blahhh…don’t get me wrong, I love the complex but are you sure you’re not working PR for the Infinity? Some of your posts sound like they are taken directly from the Infinity presentations and website.”
anonosaur,
It’s ok. 🙂 I’m not associated with the Infinity. If I were, I’d be more conservative and perhaps try to provide a “balanced view” in public just to sound more credible. I am, however, probably the biggest sucker I know for highly conceptual designs in architecture that successfully transform into reality. In S.F residential market, the Infinity is a first that qualifies into this category (and probably last within all the proposed projects I’ve seen). The initial proposal wasn’t always like this. I’m really glad Bernardo Fort-Brescia came aboard and envisioned something so spectacular here for San Francisco.
“What “A” list? Will buyers from the first tower get first opportunity to purchase units in the second tower, or will they go by priority or prequalification?”
Yes buyers of the first are one of the groups in the A list.
“Yes buyers of the first are one of the groups in the A list.”
So they will be encouraging speculative/investor purchases?
I work right there and can’t wait to leave the area when I get off work. Unless I want to hang out with convention goers and people from the Tracy on “date night” at the overpriced restaurants. Pretty boring area that is too touristy. Views are great if you have them, but my friends who did live in the area never stayed there. I like the building, looks great. If you can afford it and afford the very high HOA, that is great. I just don’t get all the raves about the location as I don’t think it is so great.
“Yes buyers of the first are one of the groups in the A list.”
So they will be encouraging speculative/investor purchases?”
Well, since prices will be at least 10% higher I would say the majority of Tower 1 buyers may pass on buying tower 2 unless they have the financial means to do so (and ability hold the units long term).
The developer is probably just offering them the first choice since they would’ve already proven their ability to close by purchasing in the first phase…
“So they will be encouraging speculative/investor purchases?”
I’m pretty sure their job is to incourage purchases of any kind, that’s the reality of the business. As far as this particular opportunity, however, I believe they are trying to sell to friends and family of the first buyers. And/or people that want to invest in a second spot. I know I may pick up a unit in the second tower if I see a good deal, then just rent it for a bit.
“prices will be at least 10% higher”
Is that in the contract? The really smart people will use a HELOC to extract their “instant equity” and use it to buy more units. You can then rent them out for half your mortgage and get REALLY rich.
“With Google taking up office space (leasing from Gap) in Hills Bros. building, that provides about 800 folks who would probably like to live in the neighborhood.”
Why does everyone always assume because you work for Google you must be rich? Unless you have stock options from the early days, the jobs there pay pretty regular pay. So I’m doubting the secretaries, the assistants, or even the engineers can afford to buy in that neighborhood or in this building.
And why should anyone assume just because they work near the Infinity, they’d want to live there? Does everyone want to live near where they work? Some might prefer an older established neighborhood with some charm, some conveniences and some street life. The city is small enough that a commute to downtown doesn’t take that long.
The Infinity says it is 75% sold out. And most of the high floors are gone. Does anyone know if “sold out” means really sold out, or could some of those folks back up now that the mortgage market has become more difficult. Just wondering if I’ve missed my chance at one of the high floor, northeast facing units.
[Editor’s Note: Until they’ve closed escrow, nothing has actually “sold” in this or any other building. Just how many contracts, or which units, will fail to close remains unknown (more on this tomorrow).]
Hey not Amused,
Someone does. I work at the emabrcadero and can’t wait to live near there. First, I currently take Muni from 4th and King and can tell you that the ride is somewhere between 15 and 50 minutes; it will be great to know that I can walk and it will always be 6 minutes. SF has tons of public transportation, but it is not exatly the most reliable or fastest.
As to the steet life, I love the streets just north of the building, along with the [Ferry] building just a few blocks away. An it is only going to get better in the immediate future and much better in the mid range future.
Color me excited.
An ex girlfriend works at Google. Smartest woman I ever dated. She started there several years ago, but well after the IPO. Under the pre-meltdown zero down qualifications, she qualified for about $700K, but she only wanted to spend $600K. I don’t know what she would qualify for now, but there is no freakin way she would qualify for more than about $500K based on her downpayment: she has options (they actually give out pseudo options: they basically just pay you a bonus based on the stock price if the stock goes up: they call it “Google Stock Units” but it’s just a bonus) but it’s not like they give those out like candy.
Everyone wants to work there because it’s a challenging place and your work can make a difference. Think of it like movie and TV studios in LA: You can get away with paying people less when you have a crush of applicants. Don’t get me wrong, she’s well paid.
I was dating her when she accepted the offer, and it wasn’t much different from the other companies she was looking at, all of whom were based in SF. So, although it’s no doubt more than the Old Navy Corporate people were making there, it isn’t like you get gold bricks to take home at the end of every day. And it wasn’t much different from 1000 people who already work in that neighborhood, and I didn’t see them rush to buy there either. Something to be said for not working so close to work anyways.
And most of the people I’ve met who work at Google are Mission hipsters (her included). I’m an Infinity fan, but she wouldn’t be caught dead in that building or in this neighborhood, any more than SeniorBuyer would have bought a grunge loft in the Mission.
Different strokes, folks, different strokes.
Of course folks want to live near their work place (assuming they don’t work in the middle of Baghdad), but I agree that “how close do you want to live” is a personal decision. Since I’m bored, I looked up the average commute time in California according to the Census Bureau – it was about 30 minutes in 2004. Let’s say you could reduce your commute to 10 minutes by moving closer to work – you’ve just given yourself 7 full days of time to do activities other than commuting to work. Rich or poor, we can’t buy that time back.
I don’t think anyone assumes Google employees are rich by default, but the company’s stock price has been going up. If a Google employee even makes “regular pay” (under $60,550 per year for household size of 1), they can possible get a down-payment assistance loan of up to $150,000 from the City on a condo priced at $620,000 or less. I’d say that’s pretty helpful along with a sweet down payment from mom and dad (I assume most Google employees are from an atypically high socioeconomic background since is costs a lot to be a smart cookie these days).
I live in Mission Bay and commute to the Financial Dist (Mont St.) daily. Part of the reason I moved to Mission Bay was the easy access to Muni and Caltrains. Taking Caltrains is fine, but the Muni light rail is an absolute mess! On the rare occassions it’s on time and runs without delays, my ride is a crisp 15 minutes. Add 5 minutes walk time my commute totals 20 mins.
Unfortunately, I can honestly say that only happens once or twice a week at best.
My average Muni commute goes like this:
Reach the Muni stop (T or N line), wait 5-10 minutes for a late train. Board the train, wait 5 minutes to the train to leave. When the train finally leaves, it crawls down King St until it finally reaches the tunnel. There it waits another 5 minutes before crawling into Montgomery Station. A one-way commute that shouldn’t take more than 20 minutes routinely take 35-45 minutes! (And the reverse commute is sometimes worse)
Would I love to live at Infinity and take 10 minutes to walk home?? That would be a godsend! And according to Jamie, all those saved minutes could amount to an extra 8-9 days a year. Now that, my fellow readers, would be priceless… 🙂
missionbay res,
It seems like walking the whole way would be a quicker option for you.
I’m in the same boat with the T-N muni. I love the fact that they chose to put two stations on one corner instead of one. There is one on King just West of 4th and one on forth just south of King. Every morning I end up at the wrong station. Even when I wait until I see a train coming, I inverably get on the train that chooses to wait for the other train to arrive and pass us. The only reason I can think of for not puting one station on King just East of 4th would be to give the Cal Tran crowd the choice of avoiding the T line crowd. Stupid decision.
Anyway, I’ll take my 6-7 days a year with a smile.
Jamie, you are the best!!!
Faced with the prospect that Google Employees have ordinary wages, you argue that their *parents* must have more than the average amount of money!
Or if Google employees are really not making out, they can get a housing subsidy from the city. Of course, the fact that the housing subsidies are only for SFHs (and thus wouldn’t apply to Google Employees wanting to buy in SoMa) and that you would need to to get a loan for 8X your income don’t appear to be a problem.
Hey, I know when I’m beat. You win!
Missionbay res:
Go to the bus stop at Third Street between Townsend and Brannan. Wait for the first bus that shows up: the 45, 30 or the blue Jitney bus. You’ll rarely need to wait more than 5 minutes. The muni buses will get you to near the Montgomery St. station in under 10 minutes, and the jitney bus ($1.50) takes about 5 minutes.
Thanks tipster… you’re the best too. 😉
It is true that you can’t get a DALP silent second on a TIC, but it will help buy a studio condo.
Folks shouldn’t throw their arms up in the air and move to Walnut Creek without checking out the possibilities in San Francisco, that’s all I’m “arguing.” Even janitors who save up their money the right way can become millionaires.
“It seems like walking the whole way would be a quicker option for you”
It actually is. At least I know there won’t be some unforeseen delay. Walking typically takes me 30 minutes. But most days I’m carrying a 10 pounds of paperwork + my lunch container, jacket, etc. so walking is not always feasible. But on days I’m ‘light’, I do walk home and enjoy it.
Tipster, thanks. I’ll give that a try. I’ve just about given up on the light rail…
Missionbay Res
Try walking up 4th, turning right on townsend, and looking to see if any of those buses are waiting there. They each wait at different stops, and similarly to the T/N problem where you don’t know which one to take first, I always ask the driver when they are leaving so I’m not sitting for 10 minutes while the other bus leaves.
If neither one is there, I walk up to the other stop on 3rd street where they all go to the same place.
The guy who drives the blue bus FLIES. You can call him and he’ll tell you where he is (it’s up to you to figure out when he’ll be where you are – his round trip takes 10 minutes). 415-793-3762. He just goes from caltrain, up 3rd street, left on market, then back to caltrain (frequently via 5th street a few blocks after market). Runs during rush hours. You have to flag him down on third street when you see him turn left onto 3rd from townsend. I have a muni pass and I still pay to use him, he’s so fast, if I see him before the other buses come.
I love the Infinity, it is one of the best projects in the city. I’m glad Tishman Speyer chose such an outstanding location and am looking forward to its completion.
” …And most of the high floors are gone…Just wondering if I’ve missed my chance at one of the high floor, northeast facing units.”
I believe most of the high floor units in the tower are pretty much gone. One of the last corner 3bd units just went into contract at $2150 psf (3.5mil) to a cash buyer from oversea. If you are serious about buying there, I guess one thing you can do is visit the Infinity’s sales office and put your name down on the waiting list for a particular floor plan you chose. What happens now is when someone does back out, the developer would raise the price to current. So most likely you will get it at a higher price than the last guy did, but it’ll still be a lot cheaper than a similar unit in tower 2. Good luck!
Thanks tipster. I’ll try the 30 or 45. It’ll drop me off on 3rd and Market, then it’s a 10 minute walk to work. Better than the snail rail 😉
I will probably rent at Infinity next year if it’s not too high, or maybe look into buying a 1 bedroom.
Another great thing about Infinity’s location is that while it’s close to Financial district and downtown, it’s not “in” downtown (i.e. Millennium) and will feel farther away than it really is…
I knew a Google employee who’s salary was about $40-45k. He was one of the first 500 employees, so he had millions (have NO idea how many, but I’d guess about 10) in stock options. Retired in his 20s! But, when he went to buy, he couldn’t qualify for a loan bc his salary was only $40k.
And Jamie, his parents lived on like a farm somewhere. They used to still send him birthday cards with $5 in it.
At the risk of beating a dead horse, my tongue in cheek quip about highly-academically credentialed folks probably coming from well-off families probably isn’t too far off from reality – if they choose to be rich and cheapskates, whatever then. Private school costs and public school quality in the City is for someone else to discuss.
Rewind to my initial post mentioning Google moving into office space in Rincon Hill soon, and it said nothing about buying or renting or the amount of money Google employees may or may not make – I simply said that provides “800 folks who would probably like to live in the neighborhood.”
You can say Gap employees are in the same boat, but I would suggest that I’d be a lot less optimistic about my future with Gap Inc. than I would with Google Inc. How many folks has Google laid off this year?
Anyway … God bless folks willing to work for cheap and lotsa stock options.
blahhh,
you’re certainly an encyclopedia when it comes to Infinity. Just curious where you get all the info on sales numbers, etc?
I work right near the Infinity and would say living and working in that area would be very limiting. Most places close after lunch and every other place is a hard core tourist restaurant. Very boring place. Great looking building but a very boring place to live, especially if you don’t get out of that area.
“blahhh,
you’re certainly an encyclopedia when it comes to Infinity. Just curious where you get all the info on sales numbers, etc?”
Blahhh is a secret agent for Tishman.
“Blahhh is a secret agent for Tishman.”
Whatever he/she does, he brings great insight to the project.
Blaahh, any other info you haven’t shared? Didn’t they raise the price again, recently?
“blahhh,
you’re certainly an encyclopedia when it comes to Infinity. Just curious where you get all the info on sales numbers, etc?”
Most of the info I share with you folks here are available to public or at least have become so by the time I share it, it’s just that not everyone has the network and time for the research. I hope they were helpful to some.
“Whatever he/she does, he brings great insight to the project.
Blaahh, any other info you haven’t shared? Didn’t they raise the price again, recently?”
Ever wonder what condos are like in South Korea with all that technology? If things happen as planned, buyers are about to get a taste of it at the Infinity…
Thanks blahhh, the info is very helpful. Please keep it coming 🙂
“Ever wonder what condos are like in South Korea with all that technology? If things happen as planned, buyers are about to get a taste of it at the Infinity…”
um, what does this mean?