As Noe Valley SF previously reported:
Friends of Noe Valley is hosting a meeting on July 15 to discuss the potential sale of the parking lot on 24th and Sanchez to the City in order to create permanent open space. The meeting will be at St. Philips at 6:30 PM.
The purpose of the meeting is twofold. First, FONV will provide a status update about the sale of the parking lot and what is needed in order for the lot to become permanent public open space. In addition, FONV is seeking input and suggestions about how the current lot could be converted into open space (a town square).
Keep in mind that this proposal is not intended as a replacement for the contentious Noe Valley Plaza plan. That being said, no word on whether or not the Noe Screamers will be out in force. But you can bet the camera phones will be rolling just in case.
Doesn’t this at least raise the question *why* this isn’t a viable substitute? If it’s about Starbucks, there’s a Martha’s across the street. Maybe the Starbucks yuppies don’t want to hang out with the Martha’s locals.
This is great news! and this site has so much potential to become a permanent Noe Valley town square…without closing off a street..
Great idea..tons of work ahead. let’s make this happen.
there’s a Martha’s across the street
Not anymore. It’s called “Bernie’s” now and is as local as it can get.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/innoevalley/detail?blogid=159&entry_id=48882
Bernie’s is a block down, no?
@lol: There is, in fact, a Marthas coffee directly across the street from this parking lot..I mean future Noe Valley Town Square.
Bernies, who also serves great coffee, is just up the street next to Whole Foods.
noearch. I spoke too fast. I miscontrued the sentence “If it’s about Starbucks, there’s a Martha’s across the street.”, into “Martha’s across from Starbucks”. I don’t even recall what was the name of the coffee shop before Bernie’s. I wish Bernie’s had more “cafe” seating, though the current setting is quite convivial.
Not anymore. It’s called “Bernie’s” now and is as local as it can get.
That was Peet’s.
Crap, I meant Tully’s.
Wait. wasnt Spinelli’s before the Bernies?
Is it me or is it Twee?
I mean town square? Will it be designed by Laura Ingels-wilder? Will the ladies be required to ride side saddle?
It’s a neighborhood in SF – its not a town, despite some peoples Thomas kinkade fantasies.
ok, Joe. you can call it what you want. I wouldn’t be so hung up on a name, used here in context, for just talking about it.
Call it Noe Valley Plaza..call it whatever you want. Don’t be so negative. This has great potential for a long term, permanent use as a public space.
Spinelli is before my time. I only knew Tully’s at this location. I never went to that Tully’s or Starbuck’s for that matter (big believer in shopping local whenever I can) but I have now tried Bernie’s and their coffee is kicking a$$.
Yeah, Spinelli, but I wasn’t trying to account for the space’s entire coffee history. 🙂
Point being, NV could have something with all of the benefits of the Noe parklet and more right here and still have coffee and shoe shopping adjacent. I think you could probably get Italian food that is at least as good as Pomodoro at the 24th St. Cafe. In fact, if I were working for the Noe project I would be a little pissed about the timing of this initiative.
God, I’m sounding like a campaign worker.
The Spinelli’s chain was bought out by Tully’s in 1998.
Part of what I really like about the “Noe Valley Plaza” plan is that you don’t have to go there specifically. Even if you’re just passing through it’s an inviting and pleasant break from the street. A pocket park like this is certainly nice, but lacks that. Also, it’s a lot more expensive, obviously.
Finally, on the question of crime, I think a plaza on the street, with businesses fronting on it and people passing through it is much less at risk than a small park tucked between blank walls (not that this is a criticism of parks).
We have to pay full retail for the Parking Lot, but reap little benefit for the back 20%+ of it as a park. With it backing against the wall, people will be leery of going back there without large groups, because there is no way out but the way you came, which could be blocked. It also leaves more possibility of attracting undesirables than the “back” of the plaza which fronts onto Noe Street right by people’s houses. There really isn’t any “hidden” spot in the plaza design, the pocket park has that flaw.
Interesting comments here…wouldn’t better use of this land be for housing instead of a plaza considering the proximity to transit and shopping?
In true Noe fashion the frequenters of the park will be diverse in that some of the white people with have blues and the other white people will have brown eyes.
With it backing against the wall, people will be leery of going back there without large groups, because there is no way out but the way you came, which could be blocked. It also leaves more possibility of attracting undesirables than the “back” of the plaza which fronts onto Noe Street right by people’s houses.
You’re kidding, right? You wouldn’t happen to be pro Starbucks-parket, would you? Because this level of hysteria is unprecedented in my experience of the NV. True, I don’t go to Upper Noe Neighbors Assoc. meetings, but still.
Sadly, the commentary above about the “back” of this proposed plaza is seriously flawed. The comment attempts to stir up future fear and danger which is pure speculation. This fear based criticism is darkly reminiscent of the Bush years.
And this ridiculous comment about “people being leery of going back there” is without merit. Good urban design and plaza design is very cognizant of designing safe open spaces and view corridors to eliminate dark corners.
This hysteria already being fueled up about the dangers of this potential public space is simply wrong and should be ignored. Sadly, the commenter is not kidding, and appears to maintain the single myopic view of closing off Noe St. as the only logical choice.
“In true Noe fashion the frequenters of the park will be diverse in that some of the white people with have blues and the other white people will have brown eyes.”
that’s cute. Is Noe Valley really white? I hadn’t noticed.
I think we still celebrate diversity up there
1. The picture illustrating the Noe Valley Open Space article has been foolishly photo-shopped. That serves only to undermine the creator, whatever his/her stand. The actual, close-in horizon is a solid wall of highly visible residences.
2. The suggested plaza seems a great idea. Perhaps someone could move/open a coffee shop which forms part of the back of the plaza. It would draw many people into and through the space.
3. After 17 years in the valley, my personal vision includes 24th St dedicated entirely to people, not drivers, from about Castro to perhaps Sanchez (except, grudgingly, a single meandering bus lane and early morning delivery truck access.) It’s just a matter of will. Happens all the time in Europe and Japan and China.
Sorry to burst your bubble Jack: but that pic is not photo shopped. I walked by there this afternoon and stood in the exact spot the photo was taken.
It’s accurate. The grade slopes down to the south from the parking lot, so the houses are below the top of the fence line. The exception is the house at the right side of the pic, which is largely obscured by the street tree.
So, there’s no solid wall of “highly visible” residences.
are you comparing noe valley politics to bush politics? now I have heard it all. f noe….thats what i say
of course not. go back and read what I said..carefully. I’m referring to one specific comment by one specific commenter about creating utter fear in peoples’ minds about what may lurk in the back of this proposed plaza.
Bush tried doing the same thing..create fear, so the people will listen to you.
I call it bottom feeding.
Actually what I am afraid of, due to reading comments on the internet…
If I am sitting in a plaza on Noe Street at 24th, I will be blown into the wall of Rabat due to the wind-swept nature of that spot. However, this is fortunate because if I were not blown out of my ugly street furniture, a man would die of a heart attack and go careening through the street plaza and run me over. This would be very bad news for me because since the road is blocked, emergency vehicles would not be able to come rescue me! And even if they could get through the road block, it would be impossible because of the Manhattan-esque traffic descending upon Noe Valley due to the blockage of the street, and circling forever because they can’t find any parking due to the lost spots.
Is Joel Panzer going to throw another of his temper tantrums? If so, I am coming and bringing popcorn.
NVJ – come no matter what and say hi.
This debate should not be framed to view this spot as a substitute for the Noe Street locale. If we get into that debate, it would force those that prefer the Noe Street locale to pick apart the Ministry Lot locale – I fell into this trap above, after being trolled by the catlover.
There is every reason to believe that *someone* won’t want a park in that lot. Describing the potential issues with this spot will just provide the ammunition to kill this project. I’m bringing popcorn and tape over my mouth.
And a camera 😉
Signed – Karl Rove
Oh you’re clever John, but not that smart.
For many people this parking lot, in fact, offers a viable alternative to the Noe St. closure for a plaza. It should be part of the debate, and it will be, as long as I have a voice.
Energetic, passionate and even spirited cross talk is the most open and democratic way to respect all voices. No shouting is strongly encouraged!
There is absolutely no harm in comparing the pros and cons of several sites. For those knowledgeable in architecture and urban design, comparison dialogue is one of the key elements of ultimately choosing the best solution for the “client”. The best design professionals never fall into the “trap”, as you say…of being hung up, focused and obsessed with one singular solution. One ends up missing opportunities and lacking vision.
Only amateurs think that way.
Why settle for either/or? The more parks the better.
Though I have to wonder where we are going to scare up the millions that the this lot will cost.
To noearch (and possibly others), I stand corrected. I revisited the site: the photo was not photo-shopped. In any case, hemmed in by houses or open to the sky, the lot would make a very pleasant pedestrian square.
I am missing some of the history on this lot. Can anyone fill in the detail? I recall that several years ago, there was a proposal to develop housing and retail (to replace the former gas station). That proposal was controversial, and the Noe Valley Ministry swept in and purchased the lot, I believe with national church funds that were specifically intended to provide parking for churches. (I believe the minister at the time was also quite wealthy and very connected, but I don’t remember the details). Needing parking for the church always seemed like a bizarre concept to me, and I haven’t followed the story since. But I do find it odd that only a few years later the church should decide that it, in fact, has no need of the parking.
For the record, I have no problem with a “town square” at that location, as long as the farmers market stays. The site needs to be largely hardscaped…no bucolic green park necessary in this location.
The only issue I have with it is expense. Comparing this to the temporary street closure proposal really is apples and oranges, because the cost of acquisition is going to be significant.