Let’s just call it how not to add a garage (or rear addition) and leave it at that for now.
UPDATE: It’s now later and a plugged-in reader adds:
I lived in that brown house next door for 6 years and the box of a “garage” just covers the same sloping driveway with a basement garage that every other house on the block has. If you’re buying this for 600k you’d get a far better ROI by turning the huge basement into a second unit, as many otherwise identical houses on the block have done.
This house belonged to the painter Wayne Thiebaud, although he lived in Sac and so rarely stayed there. It was opened up to the narrow lot on the side, which has a small building in the back that was his studio. That doesn’t appear to be part of this sale, however.
Cheers.
∙ Listing: 538 Utah (3/1) – $599,000 [MLS]
Gak! Truly terrible despite the architect’s attempt to coordinate with the style of house. What’s interesting is that this house seems to have a decently sized basement. I wonder whether it would be possible to replace this wooden box with an excavated ramp downwards and retask part of the basement as a garage?
Either that or just tear the thing down and just use the pad as an outdoor off-street parking spot. The curb cut is already there so there won’t be any drama.
The house itself is nice and seems to be in good shape. Apply a little superficial sprucing up and it could shine. Kind of close to 101 though really convenient to the POC to Potrero Hill.
oh, please MOD! you know damn well an architect was never part of this hideous little shack of a garage.
I do love the attempt at Greek style ornamentation with the planters. Good start. wrong solution.
But you cannot use the front yard as a parking pad, curb cut or not. Planning code does not allow parking in the front yard setback. That is absolutely a horrendous solution. Unfortunately you see it a lot. There are several in Noe V that are just pure trailer trash ways to park.
The house is certainly cheap but needs tons of major work.
You never know whether an architect is involved or not. Look at St Peter’s Basilica for example. Michelangelo did a great job that showcased the dome in original design, and then the church decided to extend the front nave that obscures the dome view when approach from the square. That extension work was done by an architect also. Sometimes architect will do whatever a patron wants, whether it is esthetically pleasing or not.
I didn’t know that planning code would disallow parking on a pad in front of the house. I agree that it doesn’t look good though it would still be better than this funky little box. A basement garage would be best though I’m not sure whether that is feasible.
What sort of major work do you think needs to be done here? From the photos it seems fairly well cared for, just in need of refreshing.
How awesome would it be if the hysterical preservation society declared this garage historic because it was more than 45 years old.
I’d guess that a basement garage probably was technically feasible, but the owner didn’t have the better part of half a million to three quarters of a million dollars to add one. So she went with this half-baked approach. Usually when you see absurd “solutions” like this one it’s due to the owner being cheap or not having the funds available to do an adequate job.
For the same reason, I doubt seriously a licensed architect was involved with this project.
Joe, of course this should be part of historical preservation. The garage exudes quite a bit of charm and represents a post-modern cubic transformation of a Victorian, just like the addition in the rear. The lack of proper integration into the existing house shows quite a high degree of creativity and serves as a symbol of times past. We should treasure these gems and preserve them for future generations and not allow some brash newcomer to transform this beautiful specimen into a monstrosity.
In reality, we all know that an architect was not involved in any of the additions of this little house.
Most likely the garage and rear additions were done in the 40’s or 50’s, long before there was any semblance of a planning code. Things just got built back then with little permit involvement or oversight. That’s just how it was.
Fast forward to today, and the planning and building codes are in place largely to “protect the health, safety and welfare” of the public. The planning code, although at times incoherent and bureaucratic, seeks to improve our neighborhoods and streetscape. Certainly this little rat shack of a garage would never happen today.
And yes, the planning code does strictly forbid parking in the front yard setback, and not allowing any type of concrete pad either. Today they require landscape and plant materials. Make good sense for our neighborhoods.
There’s nothing in the planning code that would disallow parking in place of the garage here on a plat. Code doesn’t allow sidewalk to be parked on, but the house is set back much further than the sidewalk (hence the reason a garage could be built there in the first place).
This block of Clay St always cracks me up with its parking:
http://www.mapjack.com/?fDBnW5QybFND
Given that the installation of a garage will remove a public parking space anyway, why not allow people to reserve a parking spot via a fake “curb cut” regardless of whether or not the owner installs a garage? The owner saves a ton of money, the city can charge a hefty fee, and the public gets to avoid seeing another eyesore & pedestrian hazard.
SF Planning Code: Section 132 (f):
No motor vehicle, trailer, boat or other vehicle shall be parked in the (defined) front yard setback, except as permitted by Section 136.
Section 136 defines various architectural obstructions, such as fences, bay windows, steps, fire escapes that are allowing with dimensional requirements within the front yard setbacks.
Vehicles are NOT.
Garages are allowed (new construction) with extensive height and width restrictions.
As for the notion of “fake curb cuts” by Alai..ah, let’s not go there. I do hope you were not serious.
All we need are more “fake” or shall we say “illegal” things constructed in our fair city.
Once, again anon: you have NO idea what you are talking about. Why give out false information? The SF planning code is online for free for all to read and download. Go to sfgov.org.
All depends on one’s budget, neighborhood, etc. My neighbor in Pac Heights paid for a garage to be put under her house for only one reason. She wanted to be able to pull up to her house and park in front of her own house. It is a street with diagonal parking, so her plan works quite well. In fact, she gets two “reserved” spaces in front of her house indefinitely. The garage itself is almost useless — a very steep ramp to a very small garage — almost unusable for anything larger than a honda civic. She does sometimes store her car there when she goes on vacations.
An unusual situation — yes, but a very creative solution that followed the letter of the laws.
By “fake” I merely meant that it would be a red-marked zone which would be tow-away upon request of the owner, just as curb cuts are now, but with no physical changes at all (except paint).
Question for noearch:
All over SF people cross the sidewalk and park in front of their homes and/or apartment buildings — sometimes in driveways, sometimes on concrete or brick areas, and sometimes just on grass. Are you telling us this is not allowed? Or, if it already exists is it OK? Grandfathered in?
Please let us know. Thank you!!
I lived in that brown house next door for 6 years and the box of a “garage” just covers the same sloping driveway with a basement garage that every other house on the block has. If you’re buying this for 600k you’d bet a far better ROI by turning the huge basement into a second unit, as many otherwise identical houses on the block have done.
This house belonged to the painter Wayne Thiebaud, although he lived in Sac and so rarely stayed there. It was opened up to the narrow lot on the side, which has a small building in the back that was his studio. That doesn’t appear to be part of this sale, however.
@repro: Yes, you see that kind of illegal parking all over The City. It’s pretty ugly and very “unfriendly” to pedestrians and overall streetscape, but it happens. And yes, by pure definition of the Planning Code it is illegal. It’s not really “grandfathered in” either. It just exists. You cannot do that today, say if you wanted to add a concrete slab to your front yard. The planning officials largely ignore it due to costs of enforcing the issue, but a neighbor may file a complaint and that can result in fines and a hearing to correct and/or remove the situation.
@pedestrianist: Extremely unlikely to turn that basement into a legal unit for many reasons. Must be zoned RH-2. Must provide for 2 off-street, side by side parking spaces (not in the front setback) that allows for each parking space to be independently accessed. Tandem is not allowed. I suspect that many of the other houses on the block have done this illegally and without permits.
@alai: good try. your idea is still pretty fake. Can you imagine if everyone wanted to “reserve” a parking space in front of their own house by merely asking for a fake red curb? hmmmmmmm..
“By “fake” I merely meant that it would be a red-marked zone which would be tow-away upon request of the owner, just as curb cuts are now, but with no physical changes at all (except paint).”
I believe DPT can technically ticket or tow even the owner of the house if there is red DPT paint. You are better off not having the red paint, although some enterprising homeowners have tried non-official red paint.
noearch, is it legal to park in one’s driveway then? i do this all the time and wonder if someone can call me on it.
oh, so now you’re also know as “alai”? ok.
The idea has fake and cheating written all over it.
Just own up to it. The red painted curb must be put there by DPT for a legitimate reason.
jeezusss. what am I becoming? a damn traffic cop here?
go read the Parking code.
Or I’m gonna start charging for my advice.
Bonus points to Pedestrianist for coming up with the deets on this place. I wonder whether having been owned by a famous painter will trigger historical status.
I find it amusing that Pedestrianist had lived steps away from a pedestrian over-crossing.
It’s very easy to tell official red paint from unofficial. The typical homeowner is not going to want to risk forgery/fraud/etc charges by painting the city stamp themselves.
Oh, I realize it’s a somewhat radical proposal. I just don’t think that it’s right, when street parking is in such high demand, that a property owner should automatically get a reserved curb cut just for installing a garage (which is just as likely to be used for storage as actual parking). It’s like the city is giving a bonus for doing something which is contrary to its stated principles (of transit first, and of historic preservation of buildings).
Instead, garage owners should be allowed to reserve the spot in front of the entrance if they desire, but only with payment of market rates for the street parking which they gain exclusive control over. And once you’ve done that, there’s no reason not to extend this ability to property owners without a garage, the aim being to prevent this sort of thing:
http://maps.google.com/maps?client=opera&q=2400+washington+st&oe=utf-8&channel=suggest&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=2400+Washington+St,+San+Francisco,+California+94115&gl=us&ll=37.788878,-122.441468&spn=0.012684,0.018561&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=37.788868,-122.441612&panoid=zefuGqsGu8Z26Ny4UgLuUw&cbp=12,347.06,,0,1.98
But they do have to pay a fee in order to get a curb cut? Also to red curbs? Also property tax?
“By “fake” I merely meant that it would be a red-marked zone which would be tow-away upon request of the owner, just as curb cuts are now, but with no physical changes at all (except paint).”
DOT will not tow a vehicle in homeowner’s curb cut unless the homeowner (or tenant) can show that the garage is a functional garage (aka, there’s room for a car in there). They will ticket though.
Whatever, Alai: it sounds like you’re not a property owner and it sounds like you hate having to look for parking near your place of abode. Ok, I get that.
“Just for installing a garage”..? how bout to the tune of about $100-200k for starters. When the garage is legally done with permits, then the property owner is certainly allowed a legal curb cut. And whether a property owner parks their car (s) in the garage or uses it for their Barbie doll dreamhouse collection, is a moot point and none of your business.
I would certainly file a complaint if I saw someone painting a “fake” red curb in front of their house. Not gonna happen where I live.
I am sorry you can’t find a convenient parking place. I feel for you.
condoshopper, I believe that as long as you are not protruding into the sidewalk, you’re ok parking in your driveway.
I don’t know the code as well as Noearch does…perhaps it is technically illegal, but never prosecuted if it is.
But you can certainly be ticketed for blocking sidewalk access..even a little bit….that’s an ADA issue. A lot of people do it though, but parking enforcement will respond to complaints or even sometimes ticket on their own (they seem to periodically go on enforcement sweeps when the matter gets out of hand).
Dang, noearch, relax. It’s Friday 🙂
The property is zoned RH-2 (Zoning Code: RH2 – http://gispub02.sfgov.org/website/sfparcel/INDEX.htm). Getting approval for less parking does happen – and of course should happen more often, right?
“Also to red curbs?”
You definitely pay a fee for red curbs. I think it’s Around $150 — some for the application and some for the paint. You have to pay to get it repainted too, if it fades.
“DOT will not tow a vehicle in homeowner’s curb cut unless the homeowner (or tenant) can show that the garage is a functional garage (aka, there’s room for a car in there).”
I think sometimes they’ll even check if it’s being used for a garage — e.g. if you have a two car garage that has a double-wide curb cut, they may even check if two cars regularly park there.
Dang Pedestrianist! it is friday! time for happy hour. who’s buying?
Rh-2 zoning is a good start. Getting approval for reduced parking in an Rh-2 zone rarely if ever happens. Thru the 311 Notification process during Planning, most neighbors would demand the 1:1 parking ratio (off street) since it’s the code.
But, sorry, no. I support it. Build by the rules, or change the rules.
In that streetview of Clay Street, it looks like the bricked-over yard has red paint on the curb marking the “driveway”.
You can perfectly have a legal curb cut and surface parking:
Look at this
And there’s a perfectly legal sfgov permit for “(N) CURB CUT AND CONC. PAVING FOR DRIVEWAY”
Smart owner. The perfect sized car and a parking for a fraction of the “$100K-$200K”!!!
Your example, lol, is certainly real.
But it’s non-conforming and not to the current Planning Code.
Most likely that was installed years ago, and before the current code restrictions. I can see examples of similar parking all over Noe.
And yes, DPT will certainly ticket you even if you park in your own driveway AND your car is overhanging the sidewalk.
It’s both about the parking laws, and also about common courtesy to pedestrians. I have seen moms with strollers here in Noe have to walk out in the damn street to get around a car blocking the sidewalk. Not cool. Not legal.
Thanks Curmy. Of course, not blocking the sidewalk is common sense and nobody should be surprised at getting a ticket for it. the legality of parking in the driveway was very curious to me though.
Take lol’s example. Look at the neighbor to the left– he built a proper garage, which no doubt cost many tens of thousands. Now, which is the better result, and for whom?
The owner? The guy on the left gets a nice covered garage and some storage space, but has to pay tens of thousands more.
The city? Gets some construction permit fees and taxes on the labor. Ultimately benefits by a few thousand extra, I suppose, from the guy on the left.
The public? Either way they lose a street parking spot. IMO, the big garage addition, though about as nice as it could possibly be, is much uglier than the unchanged house on the right.
So let the thing on the right happen. Let the city charge a sizable fee for allowing the curb cut, and everyone ends up better off– it’s still cheaper for the owner, nicer, and better for the city.
In fact, take it one step further: the owner’s goal is to have a reserved spot, which is achieved by the red zone on the street alone, regardless of whether or not it leads to a garage or parking pad. So charge the owner a fraction of the cost of constructing a garage, paint the curb red, and everyone’s a winner, except the garage constructing companies, who can find something better to do.
Note that I’m not talking about $150 for the fee, which is a trivial sum for a reserved parking spot. I’m talking about a fee that’s more in line with what people would actually pay for a street parking spot– probably well over a thousand a year.
Also, I actually don’t drive, and I wouldn’t benefit from this proposal, personally. I’d like to see a less car-reliant city. I just see people buying up nice, old-school San Francisco houses and punching a big ugly hole in their sides, and it seems so pointless and so easily avoidable (since the owners would probably be satisfied with a red zone and no garage, even with a very high permit cost–but today the only way to get a red zone is to build that garage). These garages will likely stay there for the next century, and are a permanent subsidy to the automotive infrastructure, regardless of improvements to Muni or walkability or cycling. A red curb, however, can be revisited in ten years, and the entire cost can go toward, e.g., making Muni better– maybe the owner will no longer need the parking, or the price can be adjusted to reflect the changing situation.
Good grief: Alai: this is one of the most convoluted, twisted, backwards reasons I’ve ever heard of, for not building a garage.
But you support a sneaky, illegal, and cheesy way of getting a red curb zone, all for your damn parking space.
Why not just admit your bias against “garage constructing companies”, that you hate all cars, and that you’re basically loving old school San Francisco. You’ve been reading too many old Herb Caen columns about yesterday, and the horse and buggy days.
I have to admit, you do weave a delightful, albeit fairy tale of a story.
Here’s a house right across the street. It’s not hard to imagine the owner–or especially a new buyer– mulling over a garage addition. He’d likely make like Cole St. with a big box and corresponding driveway and red zone, wiping out that garden– but wouldn’t it be better for all concerned if he could just have the red zone, keep the garden, and pay the city a nice premium?
Alternately (and maybe more workably), the city should just significantly reduce the number of residential parking permits by increasing their price (maybe a Dutch auction for a fixed number of permits for each neighborhood, so the number of permits doesn’t exceed the number of spaces). If a permit came with a reasonable assurance of available parking, it would justify its cost, and the need for a garage would be much less pressing. Plus, again, the proceeds could be used to fund alternatives for people who are priced out.
Anyway, that’s my hobby-horse and I’m riding it!
Oh, and in response to that last comment (apologies for going on)– I’m proposing that it should be legal. Obviously it wouldn’t be illegal if it were legal. As for sneaky and cheesy, well, says you. 🙂
And I think avoiding the elimination of perfectly nice front gardens is a worthy goal. Cars are nice, and are useful, but it shouldn’t be necessary to spend $100,000 to accommodate them when the existing parking would be sufficient, if only it were managed better.
Incidentally, I’m a fan of the SFPark program (though I’m afraid of what the effect of handicapped placards will be on it).
Well…….some good thoughts perhaps. However:
The house across the street with the red garage door has a nice front garden AND a garage. So, both are possible.
Also: One can build a garage at the front of a property (in most cases) and engineer it for a green,living roof. Again: garage and garden are possible.
What the photos show and I rail against all the time here in Noe is this: notice the large amount of concrete sidewalk and the absence of curbside planting. One of the worst aspects in SF overall for our pedestrians and street character. Also the number of houses without a street tree in front. Noe V is as guilty of that as in the Sunset or Richmond.
I love front gardens and curbside planting. My own house has 7 trees (corner property) with extensive curbside planting. Trying to get neighbors to do the same thing is almost impossible.
But we keep trying.
Yeah, the red door isn’t too bad. I think the minimal approach width helps. I wonder– is it up to code? Somehow it seems that most new garages are bigger and wider.
The green house opposite is pretty bad– imagine it with the garden on the left repeated where the garage is. Its blue neighbor is OK. It’s just so common that you forget the alternative.
The twin double garages downhill from the red door are just awful. Totally prevent any street greenery to boot. And yet I guess that’s more or less required by code.
I don’t much care for garages with green roofs. Pleasant enough for the owner, I guess, but everyone else gets this view (and that’s taken by a camera several feet above the roof of a car, in the middle of the road! Now imagine the pedestrian’s view.) At least when the garage is set in to the house you can actually see the house.
noearch,
Had you done your own research (about 2 minutes on sfgov), you’d have noticed that the curb cut and surface parking I mentioned was permitted in 2003.
Alai,
I don’t get the point. This person used to park in the street. Not he parks his car in his driveway. 0-sum game.
Also, that house across the street you mention has a steep incline. A lot of material to move. And this is bedrock. The family who lived there a few years ago used to have 3 cars, all parked around the neighborhood. Talk about a big switcheroo before each street cleaning day. Had they decided to build a garage (at great expense), they’d have removed one street parking space thanks to – gasp – a curb cut, as well as 3 cars. It would have been a big positive for the block.
The second pic in the listing has a side view of the garage. Hahaha!
Anyway, you could prolly rent that for $1,500/month.
🙂
Moderator: upon error, like missing name or email, the re-displayed form does not show the challenge widget. So it cannot be submitted.
I don’t get the point. This person used to park in the street. Not he parks his car in his driveway. 0-sum game.
Well, 0-sum except for the loss of a front garden. And he’s unusually lucky– others need to pour a huge amount of money into a garage. Overall, it’s a net loss.
Also, that house across the street you mention has a steep incline. A lot of material to move. And this is bedrock. The family who lived there a few years ago used to have 3 cars, all parked around the neighborhood. Talk about a big switcheroo before each street cleaning day. Had they decided to build a garage (at great expense), they’d have removed one street parking space thanks to – gasp – a curb cut, as well as 3 cars. It would have been a big positive for the block.
Ok, so this particular family could’ve freed up two spaces, and all it would cost is $100,000 and another one of these for everyone to look at. Will that make parking easier for everyone else? Maybe a little, but I suspect that we’ve reached the point where the main factor determining how many people own cars is “how easy will it be for me to park it”. In other words, if a bunch of people build garages and the parking situation goes from “really bad” to “pretty ok”, then a bunch of other people will get cars (remember, 30% of San Franciscans are in 0-car households) and the situation will go right back to “really bad”. And the family would still have been out $100,000.
Better to cap the number of parking permits. To distribute them, you can use a dutch auction, or even “cap-and-trade” where if someone new wants a permit they have to buy it from someone else. The proceeds can be put into improving the local Muni lines, or, if you prefer, simply replace other local taxes.
This would benefit everybody who searches for a parking spot– even the 3-car family (and they could make a rational decision about whether they really need 3 cars, or whether they would rather spend their money on something else).
Here’s a (long) paper about an attempt to do something like that in an (admittedly very car-dependent) SoCal university.
You’re comparing campus parking to parking in San Francisco? I think you lose all credibility on this one…
Alai, this is a fantastic idea. Would require legislative changes, but could save our streetscapes and the cost and hastle of garage constructionn. In our denser neighborhoods, it would be nice to eventually allow existing garages to be converted to living space. That’s not how the planning code works now, but in places where lots of people ride transit, bike, and walk, it’s a great possibility that could also allow property owners to increase their home values.
The sale of 538 Utah has closed escrow with a reported contract price of $710,000.