CFAH

1332 Wright Loop
From the statement for 1332 Wright Loop:

Built in 1943 to accommodate the commanding general of the Ninth Coast Artillery District, this grand residence reflects a mix of Spanish Colonial Revival architecture and more modern elements of the period. Located in the Presidio’s Fort Scott area, above Kobbe Avenue, this secluded historic home has a grand entertaining space, 5 bedrooms, 4.5 bathrooms, 2-car attached garage and is a contributing feature to the Presidio’s status as a National Historic Landmark District.

Open this Friday and Saturday from 1-3PM and seeking a minimum bid of $14,000 per month, a plugged-in tipster adds: “Though not on the statement, I’ve heard the winning bidder will have to pay out of pocket to update the home (it’s old and not rehabbed).”
UPDATE (12/10): An aerial perspective for the property.
The Wright Stuff Redux: Aerial Perspective And A Reader’s Report [SocketSite]

Comments from Plugged-In Readers

  1. Posted by velociraptor

    This opening bid amount of $14,000 per month would have been fitting in 2008 when wealthy people were selling their houses at the height of the market, and then renting unique places like this just for the hell of it. Now, however, I cannot imagine this place will get any bids at this price. Due to the usual lag times with bureaucratic landlords such as Presidio Trust and the GGNRA I think they have not yet realized yet how much the demand for this sort of thing has gone down.
    The mansion on Pope St had a minimum bid of $20,000 per month in June 2008 (7BR 4 1/2 bath) and believe it was rented out. I think the Presidio Trust is hoping that the market hasn’t changed much since that time, but I’d be willing to bet the farm that we’ll see this re-bid in a month or two at a lower price.

  2. Posted by dr. who

    I don’t know, 14k is a lot in rent, but this is a very unique property. During one of my Presidio walks, I came across it the other week and was very impressed. Not only is it in the Park, but it’s all by itself on an enormous lot with a huge grassy lawn atop a hill with panoramic views from a really unique perspective (it’s almost like being on top of the GG bridge with the feeling that all of the Presdio are your “grounds”). That and the place looks enormous (not sure about square footage.
    Having said that, if it was a few k less, I would seriously think about renting it.

  3. Posted by sparky-b

    velociraptor,
    Do you have a farm to bet, because if you do I would be interest in your wager.

  4. Posted by Presidio Resident

    I wouldn’t pay half that! A $14k mortgage would support a $2.5 mm mortgage. Talk about a bad economic decision. Besides who on earth can or even wants to sell their home in order to rent in the fog! Honestly no one with the funds to pay $14k in rent is dumb enough to sell their home near a trough in order to rent at that rate AND sink a few grand down into rehabing a property they don’t officially own.

  5. Posted by Fishchum

    I may check this place out on Friday. I live right outside the Lombard Gate and I’ve walked by this place many times. I’d love to be able to get inside and take a look around.

  6. Posted by sallie

    I heard the lease is for 3 years. Why would you put money into a property when they’ll simply kick you out and jack up the rent for the next guy!

  7. Posted by Denis

    The Presidio is a beautiful location, but a $14k minimum lease. That doesn’t make any sense. You can rent homes on Broadway in Pacific Heights that have been updated for that amount. The construction is old. Unless you could own the property, why would anyone rehab the property themselves? $14k is 2006 pricing. This is laughable.

  8. Posted by Long Term Renter

    The folks in the Presidio Leasing office must be drinking the Stimulus Kool Aid. $14,000 is a joke. The world has changed.

  9. Posted by anonn

    The joke is on all of you who are putting on some sort of knowledge airs in your dismissals. This process is underway and it’s competitive.

  10. Posted by sallie

    anonn, if you know so much about the process, why don’t you enlighten us? How many bidders? What is the rent range they are seeing? How much out of pocket are people offering? Do tell…

  11. Posted by presidiotenant

    people pay high rents to live in the presidio. it is a lifestyle choice. in 2006 this would have been listed higher. i know one person who lives in the presidio in a house paying well over $10,000 in rent after selling his pacific heights home. there is a lot of wealth living in the park.

  12. Posted by anonn

    I’d never share that sort of information before the fact. Wait a week, or else go to the open houses. You’ll see.

  13. Posted by dr. who

    Exactly PresidioTenant – there are a number of homes in the Presidio that rent in that range (and are nowhere near as grand as this one).
    And I’m not surprised at all to hear that several people are interested in the property. It really is 1 of a kind even if it hasn’t been “updated” which half the time means some hideously generic remodel.

  14. Posted by sfrenegade

    “people pay high rents to live in the presidio. it is a lifestyle choice. […] there is a lot of wealth living in the park.”
    That at least seems slightly more believable than other fun realtor myths like:
    foreigners are snapping up condos in [insert SF condo building];
    almost everyone in SF who buys a house is a trustafarian or has Google stock options; and
    all houses in SF have multiple all-cash offers.
    I guess we’ll find out when the bidding is done. This seems like a unique property, but everything’s subject to market conditions. The property is 4250 sqft according to a posting:
    http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/apa/1502689821.html
    And also:
    # cats are OK – purrr
    # dogs are OK – wooof

  15. Posted by anonfedup

    I must say some of the more moderate rentals are a bargain in the Presidio. I just went on their rental site and saw a nice vintage 1br with den, fireplace, porch and view, with parking for 1795, or a huge 2br with view of the Golden Gate for about 2100 a month. If I was a renter this would be my first choice.

  16. Posted by anonn

    That at least seems slightly more believable than other fun realtor myths like:
    foreigners are snapping up condos in [insert SF condo building];
    almost everyone in SF who buys a house is a trustafarian or has Google stock options; and
    all houses in SF have multiple all-cash offers.

    ha. Why does that belong in this thread, other than the fact that you are a hater?

  17. Posted by sfrenegade

    “The joke is on all of you who are putting on some sort of knowledge airs in your dismissals. This process is underway and it’s competitive.”
    Why does that belong in this thread if you’re not going to share any information and other than the fact that you are a hater?

  18. Posted by anonn

    Huh? Several others with Presidio rental market understanding spoke up and concurred. You may like to dismiss things outright for no reason, or reading others doing same. In fact, I know you do. That doesn’t make it copacetic. Regardless, your very clever “I know you are, but what am I?” was duly noted. Still wondering what realtors have to do with this, other than you grinding a small axe?

  19. Posted by sleepiguy

    I’ll weigh-in and say this rents quickly and +/- 10% of asking.

  20. Posted by eddy

    I’d have to see the inside to make an informed decision, but I actually saw this on CL was sending it to “tips” when I realized it was already posted. It’s very unique and pretty open. I like it. 2 car garage and what looks like a parking lot across the way. The Bing Ariel view is pretty impressive to get a sense of what’s going on here.
    One thing to consider is the Doyle Drive (click name link) project commencing as we speak that is going to really turn the presidio upside down for the next few years. They were giving homes away on Pilot’s Row a few months back and think they still have a few unrented. There is a similarly nice home in Fort Mason that recently went without a qualified bid and it’s back on the market with a lower figure. There are too many variables when considering or making a prediction on rental markets that anyone using this to guess the state of the rental market as a whole is a just making a guess. Truth is, lots of corporate rentals in the city paying well north of 10k and would jump all over a better property if it came up. This place is unique.

  21. Posted by jlasf

    I know the previous renters and have been in the house several times. It has amazing views, but even more than that, one has no sense of being in the city. It’s like someone took a Hillsborough estate and placed it 15 minutes from Union Square. Inside, the living room has a huge picture window with a view of the GG Bridge. It’s old, but has character. Not grand and stuffy. It would make a great family home. As far as the Doyle Drive construction, the additional traffic through the Presidio does not matter to this property. It sits above it all. One of a kind. I’d rather live in this house than the biggest palace in Pacific Heights. Does 14K a month make any economic sense? The person who gets it will have enough money that it won’t matter to them.

  22. Posted by Observer

    Just because someone has way too much money and pays the asking price doesn’t mean it’s rational or a real reflection of market value. At $14,000 a month, this is ridiculously over valued.
    In this case, “unique” means surrounded by beautiful trees with old, drafty, maintenance ridden construction in an isolated location.

  23. Posted by diemos

    ^ No, if someone has the money and is willing to pay it then that is market value.

  24. Posted by anonn

    Yeah, I mean, compare how much it is to rent a 4000+ foot Presidio Heights house with huge grounds and massive views. Is there even one? I’m not sure why this was so disputed.

  25. Posted by The Milkshake of Despair

    Some say that this is not indicative of the market. Others say that it will rent at this price.
    I think everyone’s right. This is a unique place and those who can afford it know that this might be their only chance. Lease now or forever hold your peace.
    But this is a market of one. Its all very nano, bro.

  26. Posted by tipster

    Figure rental rates are running around $3700 per million of property value, give or take. $14,000 puts this property at around $3.75Mil. Would this sell for $3.75M?
    In the Presideo on a huge lot with views? Easily.
    Does the three year minimum affect the market. Yes. There’s lower demand for something that pricey that long. But it also helps ensure the tenant might put $18K into some updates, which works out to an extra $500 per month. You might update the countertops in the kitchen and baths.
    So I agree with sleepiguy. It may or may not go for asking, but I’ll bet it’s pretty close.

  27. Posted by eddy

    Not sure where the 3700 per mil comes from but it’s certainly not linear. Few homes rent north of 10k and 20k is about the absolute max and for that you could pretty much have just about any home short of primo gold coast, which don’t hit the rental market too often.

    IF this home were to sell it would probably be on the order of 1500 – 2000 psf. Even though its got a huge lot, it’s mostly all just park grounds and the physical footprint would be smaller. Rumor had it that Peter Thiel was paying between 10-12k for his place close to the Palace. And that place was on the market for ~7M.

    [Editor’s Note: 2140 Jefferson: Apparently “Lease To Own” Wasn’t An Option For Thiel.]

  28. Posted by sparky-b

    “This is a unique place and those who can afford it know that this might be their only chance. Lease now or forever hold your peace.
    But this is a market of one. Its all very nano, bro.”
    When I say something like that I get blasted.

  29. Posted by SocketSite

    An aerial perspective for 1332 Wright Loop: The Wright Stuff Redux.

  30. Posted by missionite

    This property will absolutely rent for more than $14k. I’m guessing the final price will be closer to $20k then $14k. There aren’t any similar properties to compete with this. Fluj is right on this one.

  31. Posted by Paul Hwang

    This one will be gone.

  32. Posted by stucco-sux

    And its so conveniently located near the awesome new Fisher Art Museum… oh, wait!

  33. Posted by sallie

    Paul – Your response surprises me. You have some multi million listings in the Marina near the Palace of Fine Arts. Aren’t you supposed to remind us of the good deals, opportunity to build equity, etc? Why would you throw $14,000 down the tube each month and be left with nothing at the end of the lease term? What kind of house could you buy for a $14k/month mortgage? A pretty nice house, no?

  34. Posted by BobN

    It’s like someone took a Hillsborough estate and placed it 15 minutes from Union Square.
    Except, of course, the Hillsborough estate wouldn’t have strangers jogging across the lawn. On the other hand, parking yourself in a comfortable chair, sipping a latte in front of the big picture window, gazing at the Golden Gate bridge as light from the morning sun creeps slowly down the towers, and enjoying the sight of firm-limbed runners puffing up the hill wouldn’t necessarily be all bad…

  35. Posted by CSK

    …in defense of Paul- he did not say that HE would rent it…or that one SHOULD rent it…just that it will be rented…
    The people who can even consider renting it are- most likely- not that concerned with “building equity”.
    This is a one of a kind property…nothing else like it in the country…the chance to live on a seemingly private legacy estate (can’t build fences or keep folks- or coyotes- out) with million $$ views in a national park that was once a military base for 3 different countries…and all within the city limits of a great city…
    …having lived in the Presidio for 6 yrs and oft rode by this place in awe and lust-the setting has to be seen to be believed-…and knowing folks who paid $10k for places in the Park with no views (relatively speaking)…I am confident it will go quickly.
    Have fun getting a pizza delivered there tho- 🙂

  36. Posted by dr nick

    For all those saying why pay 14k/month when you could buy a $2m home and get a similar mortgage rate, consider the risk of the house dropping in value over the 3 years. For every 10% drop on a $2m home you are losing $200k on top of the mortgage interest you are throwing away…

  37. Posted by anonn

    Paul, didn’t you get the memo? You’re not allowed to be a human being.

  38. Posted by The Milkshake of Despair

    A followup on the singularity of a property and how that affects its value : Of course “value” is a product of the actual value and the perceived value. Singularity is the same : if the prospective renter or buyer sees a property and has a Brigham Young “this is the place !” moment, then the property is unique for that combination of resident/home. The more unique a property is, the more likely a “This is the place” emotion is going to accelerate the signing of a deal.
    Uniqueness is the inverse of interchangeability and is also quite subjective. A condo unit would seem extremely interchangeable for most people, but if it was the unit that Ronnie Wood once owned then a Stones fan might not consider any other.
    If you’ve ever been disappointed by an outbid on your dream home and then later found a place even better, you’ll understand how subjective and slippery “uniqueness” is.
    This property seems truly unique : a country manor with a fantastic view in the midst of a dense city.
    Many will view this as unique and it only takes one to lease it out. But others will find that there are other properties that are equivalents in terms of bucolic setting, views, and proximity to urban comforts (though the urban comforts would be likely provided by another city altogether)
    I don’t recall any other property discussed on SocketSite being nearly as singular as this one. Not the Captain’s House, Sunny Jim’s house, nor any of the various over the top lofts. Sparky – what property did you get slammed on ? Maybe I missed that one.

  39. Posted by Rocco

    Someone will pay 14K a month rent here and be very happy, undeterred by the screams of Socketsite naysayers.

  40. Posted by Fishchum

    Jim T. – thanks for posting that link. This whole time I’ve been thinking that the Wright Loop property was the Simonds Loop property, which is the one I’m used to walking by. I’m not sure if I’ve even seen the Wright Loop property in person. Unfortunately Mapjack won’t take me by the Wright Loop property, so I’ll definitely have to check it out tomorrow.

  41. Posted by CSK

    You have to look for the Wright loop property…its off of Kobbe sort of behind Benard Hall…its out of the way and not well marked…
    …which is part of the appeal.

  42. Posted by Realist

    The soothsayers who ascribe purchase prices or rents based on Pacific Heights or Presidio Heights comparables ignore the fact that the use of and modifications to this home are governed by Federal rules. This is a rental and the Presidio will not allow the renter to do much to the house. A potential purchase price carries a significant discount to any near comparable because of the constraints. The rent also carries a significant discount because of all the constraints. Old charm is nice unless it’s your bathroom and can’t change it.

  43. Posted by Renter Envy

    Nice home @ pre-bubble rent. From that perspective, this isn’t really that unique. There are lots of nice condos at pre-bubble rents in SOMA.

  44. Posted by anonn

    This is a rental and the Presidio will not allow the renter to do much to the house.
    That’s not accurate. They realize that it needs updating throughout, at least in this case.

  45. Posted by Alexei

    I’ve walked past it. It’s nice. Sits on a hillside, with a dramatic slope in front. Quite secluded.

  46. Posted by marina girl

    if i remember correctly, the rent on the simmons loop place is $17k/mo, right? no idea when that lease was signed or where i read/heard that figure. that place is a stone’s throw from some of the broadway/upper pac heights palaces, so it’s a very interesting rental comp. beautiful place to walk by, for sure.

  47. Posted by eddy

    It’s odd that this has become a thread dedicated to the rental price of this place. Anyone have any interesting facts on previous renters, or a little ‘history’; you know, something other than mindless guessing / speculation about a totally unique and non-representative unit of rental inventory? 🙂

  48. Posted by anonnn

    1 Miur Loop is in the Simonds Loop neighborhood and rented many years ago and had extensive renovations done.
    1332 Wright Loop is in the Kobbe Terrace neighborhood and has always been occupied by a military official, making this occasion the first time the unit has been available to the public. The view from unit itself has only a glimpse of Alcatraz and a sprinkling of San Francisco Bay. The Golden Gate Bridge view seen on the statement is at the intersection of Wright Loop, Kobbe Avenue, Upton Avenue, Wisser Court, and Hitchcock Street.
    Part of the bidding process allows the tenant to choose a lease term along with a unique ability to submit proposals for any changes to the unit undertaken entirely by renter or shared with the Presidio Trust.

  49. Posted by presidio renter

    i am just reading this thread and it is so obvious that anonnn works for the presidio and is trying to generate interest. hilarious that the leasing agents are now resorting to socketsite to try to preserve bubble pricing.

  50. Posted by Fishchum

    I just toured this place today. While it certainly is unique, and in a bucolic setting, I could never in a million years understand why someone would pay $14K per month to live there – you’d REALLY have to fall in love with the uniqueness and historical significance of this house to justify the asking price.
    Outside of the price, the house is very nice – the living room is enormous, as is the dining room. The upstairs master bedroom leads out to a small sun room, and there’s a large cement patio in the back that you can access via the kitchen or one of the upstairs bedrooms.
    It does look as if the kitchens and bathrooms were updated at some point, but they would still need to be remodeled for a $14K asking rent. Overall, the house is very “military” in a sense – it’s all about function over everything else.
    As much as I love the Presidio, I think you can (and should be able to) get much more for $14K a month. There’s no question this property deserves a premium, but for this asking rent you could do much better.

  51. Posted by anonn

    i am just reading this thread and it is so obvious that anonnn works for the presidio and is trying to generate interest. hilarious that the leasing agents are now resorting to socketsite to try to preserve bubble pricing.
    I don’t work for the Presidio. I’m not a leasing agent eiither. And I think the term “bubble pricing” is obtuse for a rental. Everything is not a conspiracy.
    You know what? I changed my mind. My bad folks. You win. It’ll NEVER go for 14K! Nobody would ever pay to remodeal a place they don’t own! And the Presidio Trust wouldn’t allow anybody to change anything anyway.
    There. Sorry everybody. OK? Can we be Internet friends now?

  52. Posted by velociraptor

    Annon spends a lot of time monitoring this thread for someone not involved with this rental, and he sure makes it sound like he’s “inside” somehow.
    Either way he comes across as petty, overly emotional, and dim-witted.

  53. Posted by anonn

    Groan.
    Like I said. Sorry. Everybody who is totally wrong is right. My bad. Why don’t you want to be my e-friend, velociraptor?

  54. Posted by Dan

    Wrong is right?
    Or Wright is wrong!

  55. Posted by Lurker

    All the e-trash talking, e-bullying, and e-couch analysis aside, did anyone besides Fishchum even attend the open house to make a “real life” opinion? How was the turnout?

  56. Posted by velociraptor

    I’ll be your best e-friend forever Annon once you admit the exact nature of your vested interest in this rental. For someone so fed up with all the armchair analysis going on here, shouldn’t you be logged in with your real name like some of the other realtors on here?

  57. Posted by anonn

    I heard that there’s a lot of interest. That’s from several reliable sources, all who said it’ll go quickly. A lot of people on here agree about that. However, the majority seems to think it’s a ripoff. And the prevailing m.o. on here is “mob rule, say your piece, move on, don’t look back.” That’s it. I personally wouldn’t rent for that much money if I could afford it.
    As far as my name and all that? I don’t want to get accused of shilling all the time. Besides, what I do, and my particular area of expertise, generally isn’t of use to novices. I’m not lacking for clients anyway. I need to start seeing more inventory. That’s what I need.

  58. Posted by sleepiguy

    I’m sure some others went to the open house like I did…
    My quick thoughts. Price= ridiculously high for what you’re getting. Spectacular living room, but that’s it. The ceilings elsewhere are very, very low making most rooms feel unnecessarily cramped. The CL ad said it was something like 4200 sft. Well, let’s just say they must be counting the garage.
    My issue is that you can rent a REAL 5000 square foot home in Pac Heights (north side, with GG views) for 7-8k. I still think it’ll rent, but I’m not impressed.

  59. Posted by Marin Transplant

    I breezed through the open house today. Beautiful living room, nice secluded lot. The rest of it is totally uninspiring. Functional and serviceable, but way overpriced in my opinion. For that price, there are too many other superior choices. One wonders about asbestos and other problems with construction that is this dated.

  60. Posted by Navy Brat

    Jim T and Anonnn, the house you are referring to, 1 Muir loop has never been “rented.” After the last military tenant left, it was renovated and is the home of the executive director of the Presidio Trust.

  61. Posted by Tiger Wood's 99th Mistress

    I was also at the open house and spoke with attendees who (perhaps predictably) were already residents of the Presidio and took the opportunity to see a house which they had always been curious but never had the opportunity to see.
    The residents I had a chance to speak with all expressed overwhelmingly positive reactions to the residence, and these are people who alluded to paying rents nearly as high. It makes one wonder what places they live in that would elicit such praise.
    Yes, this property is dated. Aside from the living room, most of the house is far from spectacular with comments about low ceilings (at least in regards to the kitchen) and the out of place ceiling tiles in the dining room proving the point this house needs updating. However, the room sizes are very generous, and there’s a sunroom off one of the bedrooms/study that has a fantastic outlook of the bay and Alcatraz. The house is very clean and word is the landlord (your friendly neighborhood federal government) does an exceptional job with maintenance. The grounds are massive with a huge front yard and a good backyard space for a barbeque and entertaining. It certainly has no traffic and no issues with parking spaces.
    It’s clear after speaking with a few residents that many of those on Socketsite and on review sites like Yelp (which are mostly negative and makes one curious who this “Bonita” is: http://www.yelp.com/biz/presidio-residences-san-francisco) are of a different mind (and very likely financial situation) than those who occupy the Presidio (at least certain parts…most complaints seem to come from the apartments in Baker Beach, for example).
    I can’t imagine at what amount this place will rent, but if the crowds (must have been a dozen people in the house and the rain was pouring) and my conversations were any indication, it certainly will go to someone with a mindset similar to current Presidio residents. I also can’t imagine someone not requesting upgrades as mentioned on the second page of the property statement (that dining room really needs a new ceiling). We can rent the place out as a group. 10 couples makes each bedroom a low, low price of $1,400 per person. Who’s with me?

  62. Posted by confession

    We need to come up with a Socketsite commenter signal at these events to let each other know we are present.
    I lied at the open house. I said I heard about it through Craigslist. I didn’t dare say I heard about it through this site.

  63. Posted by Real Estate Bear

    Didn’t have a chance to visit the open house. Judging from the comments of those who did, it sounds like this a great location, but a bit of a disappointment when considering the asking price. Cool place for whoever rents it, but I’d never live in the fog for $14k per month.

  64. Posted by WES

    Marin Transplant — I have a hard time believing the Federal Government or Presidio would not remove asbestos from their rental units. Worth asking I guess.

  65. Posted by BobBarker

    I’m curious what the cost to fix up this building would be?

  66. Posted by Noobie

    Hey, a lot of the commenters here really seem to be “experts,” so I thought this would be a good place to ask, . . .
    My dad said there were three words that you need to know about real estate? I think that it may have been a joke, and you were supposed to repeat one word 3 times, but i forgot what the word was?
    Anybody?

  67. Posted by sparky-b

    Noobie was it
    Buy, Sell, Repeat, Retire…no that’s 4. I have no idea what he could be talking about. Of course this is a rental so his mantra may not apply anyway.

  68. Posted by Fishchum

    Noobie – Location, location, location. What a lot of people don’t realize is that my father originally coined this phrase, except his version was “location, location, location, LOCATION”.
    Some weisenhimer simply came along and shortened it by one word and presto! The catchphrase was born.

  69. Posted by Tipsta

    It rented.

  70. Posted by Chuck

    I used to live there. Anyone know what it rented for?

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