From a tire warehouse (Goodrich) in 1923, to a booze warehouse/office (Seagrams), to a printing plant and corporate headquarters (George Lithograph Company), to twenty-four (24) live/work lofts in 1996, 650 2nd Street is a true conversion building.
Which should help explain the half-bath in the master suite of #601 (with the two full baths a floor below). And the not so subtle seismic bracing in the living room as well.
∙ Listing: 650 2nd Street #601 (2/2.5) – $1,695,000 [650secondstreet.com] [MLS]
Um, there’s two gigantic steel beams in the middle of the living room of this $1.7M condo.
Clearly the owner knocked his head on them one too many times when he priced it!
I think I’m reminded of a line from a movie, Apocalypse Now: “Oh, the horror, the horror . . .”
The Zephyr Real Estate copy from the online ad says, “Visualize yourself living in a dynamic neighborhood which caters to sophisticated pallettes. . .”
But not sophisticated enough to know that it’s palates, not pallettes!
The copy also notes that you’ll be living close enough to be “catching a Giant’s game.” They actually mean a Giants’ game, of course!
When I see a property that I feel is priced like Microsoft was during the dot-com era (high of 119 7/8, never to be approached again, even after the split) I repeat to myself my handle: That’s Ridiculous!
Is that a safe under the bed? Or more Asian styling to go with the Buddhas? Either way after bonking your head on the steel beams, remember not to slide out of the bed at the bottom, or you’ll find its a long way down. No home runs here, I fear.
Ok, these comments are funny (the masks are ridiculous), but those beams look cool, and they visually separate the “main” part of the living room from the kitchen/dining area/hall behind it — it’s a nice execution of an open floor plan, if you ask me.
It looks like they moved a chair in the above photo (present in another one on the site) which would prevent a casual bonking, unless you are in such a hurry to get to the “Giant’s” game or to satisfy your “pallette” in the kitchen you walk over furniture 😉
wow… that’s a big price tag for something that doesn’t have a full bathroom to the master… or even on the same floor as the master. Looks like a cool place though – maybe they’ll ring in a sucker, but I doubt it. What kind of realtor values these things so high???
Unless the game belongs to the Giants, it’s a “Giants game”. I agree about the price, though.
The usage “Giants’ game” occurs in the sports section when someone writes, for example, “The Giants’ game today was a loss.” (But only in the finer newspapers.)
As for this wildly sophisticated urban property, I’m still amazed by the juxtaposition of the polished mahogany wall unit with the rough-hewn industrial planks of the ceiling. I’ve sanded and polished floors myself–do you think they
should do that for the ceiling here?
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think this building has no parking. That’s a lot of money for no parking space-even in San Francisco!
It’s a nice place-cool and creative use of space. I don’t have a problem with the steel struts-this is a loft, industrial suits it just fine-but I think the master bathroom will be an issue. With that said, this sells. Unique spaces in this city command a lot of attention, someone buys it within $150k of asking price-even in our current sky-is-falling real estate depression. Yep, these buyers will be idiots who will get years of enjoyment out of this property and then (gasp!) have to sell it around the same price they paid! Oh, the humanity!!
Buy, sell, repeat – retire. Only at Zephyr’s. Great line from 2007. Will always remember. They must have banged their heads against the steel beams in the living room one time too many. Great entertainment. And the Magnum photos are a killer. I like the Buddha. LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
There has been a progression from a house as shelter to a house as retirement nest egg to a house as a rapidly traded security. I predict that whoever buys this “home” will be selling it again within 2 years. These units are not even livable — concept housing at it’s most extreme. It’s fitting that they were converted from factories, since that used to be how we made money. Now, we just trade deeds of title with each other, and then run to the government (funded by foreign investors, living in countries with factories) when the money runs out.
Geez, tough crowd? This is a beautiful dwelling. The ceiling isn’t rough hewn lumber, it’s poured-in-place concrete that shows the imprint of the wooden pouring forms.
Every time I walk to the ballpark I look at this building and wonder what’s inside. Reminds me of SoHo.
Love the walk-in closet and the beams. Can’t tell if the entryway is the second bedroom but it seems looks like dead space that would never get used. Agree that the layout is strange but great style.
This place looks amazing. The styling, the conversion, the light, the artsy feel, the steam room, the wine cellar, the finishes, the roof deck with views…
You people amaze me with your tone so much so that I’ve been reluctant to keep up with the negativity-du-jour on SocketSite lately. Let the market decide what it’s worth and quit being cry-babies cause you can’t afford it.
Oh, please. Artsy, you say? No artist would live in a place like this, even if he could afford the monthly payment. It smells like retail real estate, overrun by interior designers, with pipes running across the ceiling! If that’s artsy, it hearkens back to the day when artists lived in tenements. And what’s with that amoeba-shaped living room rug? Do they throw that in with the purchase price? I hope so! And will someone explain how you can have a [wine] cellar in a penthouse?
This place is one of San Francisco’s first true conversion buildings – quite spectacular, IMHO. Has a true loft-like feel and quality about it, unlike so many of the other cookie-cutter type stucco pseudo-loft buildings that preceded it.
I think the space is pretty amazing – for those of you that are always so quick to pooh-pooh everything you look at on here, I suggest you take a look at the space when you get a chance. Unless you would rather just sit here and keep spouting the ‘negativity-du-jour’ as quakey b puts it – LOL.
er, I meant pseudo-loft buildings that came after it, not preceded it. It’s late.
@That’s Ridiculous
Jeez man, did the owner of this place run over your cat? It’s a LOFT-exposed pipes, vents, etc. I know they aren’t for everyone, but loft conversions look this way because they are meant to be (varying degrees of) raw space. Not for everyone-me included-but a great place for many.
I like the loft a lot more than I think I would like some of the vicious queens who comment on properties here.
It’s a nice looking property … but after hitting my head for the 10th time on the beams, I’d put it on the market just like that.
I’m not a loft person myself, and this place seems like living here might be somewhat of a challenge.
however, I also give the space credit for being a true converted factory. and it is pretty cool.
too often we see exposed ductwork etc. in brand new faux-lofts. those are trying too hard. it’s like Epcot center or something.
this place is what it is. a factory. there are certain people who want to live in a converted factory, and I’d assume they’d like this sort of place.
So overall it seems a good enough space.
I’ve never fallen out of bed, so it doesn’t matter to me how high up the bed is.
The problem with the bed (typical terrible design) is that there is only one way out of bed. thus, you better make sure the person getting up first is on the right side of the bed… otherwise the left side person has to crawl over the right sided person to get out of bed.
Likewise, I’d like to see someone shave using that sink. impossible to do.
that’s my #1 problem with the design of many modern spaces these days: style is more important than function.
these designers should make a mock-up of the place first, and then live in the mock up for a month to tweak the design a bit.
on a side note: they took good pictures. finally.
Yes, that’s right–it’s a converted factory space with industrial-looking pipes and beams for $1,695,000. Sometimes, I truly believe that virtually all of the people posting on this site are either real estate agents, mortgage brokers, or the actual owners offering the pictured property for sale. (Not that there’s anything wrong with that!)
It is a good-sized unit at 1700 sqft…however, look at those beams! That just about cut one third off the usable space in the living room. And who designed the bed? And that is supposed to be the master bedroom?
It should be marketed at 1BR/2.5BA with a bonus room/library/office/den.
At least, the photography is nicely done. At least they showed some professional work there.
Those of you who think this is currently worth 1.7M today should plan on admitting that the market has dropped 40% when it gets sold by the bank at the end of the year.
I’m not going to hold my breath waiting for that to happen.
Did anyone note that “palates” and “Giants” have since been corrected? Interesting, and probably a nod to SS… Even so, we should give credit to a well-designed web-site with excellent pictures and presentation. It is light years ahead of the marketing for the recent $5 million places featured here, which I find very hard to believe.
Anyway, I really like the place, I think it’s a very well-done loft. I do think the so-called master bath and the bed on the ledge would become a huge problem for the person actually living there, and I can’t really understand the reason for them. Everything else seems very well done and liveable (I personally like the beams).
Finally, with all that said, to appreciate the RE porn I just have to ignore the cost… ouch. I’m with tipster on that aspect… this is not going to end well.
The deck is lovely, and the funky-ass sink serves it and the master. Shaving would be something for one of the full bathrooms. The cabinets are awesome, but I wonder if all of them come with the unit or if the ones on legs are different. The bed position could be changed. The location is quite nice and close to everything without being up against I80 or Market.
The only thing that strikes a sour note for me is the narrow spiral stair. In a loft it should be possible to have a broad stair that provides views of the space when ascending and descending. That would take away from the living areas, but might still be worth it.
Wow. What a bunch of ill-informed vitriol.
Tipster: 40% drop? Sold by the bank?
You are unhinged and detached from market reality. That phrase is usually better applied to senseless market cheerleaders, but your doomsday crap is tired.
Wow, this place is coooooool. Although the 1/2 BA is a problem, it’s not insurmountable in my view. The rest of this space more than makes up for the minor inconvenience.
Curbed featured this property yesterday.
http://sf.curbed.com/archives/2008/04/02/own_the_bossmans_digs_at_650_2nd_street.php#reader_comments
Apparently it was owned by the property developer and is customized to the hilt. I actually like it, wish I could afford to be so eccentric.
Re: the wine cellar, it’s more a walk-in wine cooler. Don’t take the word “cellar” too literally, as they’re calling wine fridges wine cellars nowadays. http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7592937&type=product&id=1130981167227&ref=06&loc=01&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=7592937
@tipster
I’ve read some very insightful, well thought out posts from you on this site, but in this case I have to say you’re WAY off. The market has dropped 40%? Really? Have you actually shopped for real estate lately? The penthouse at 605 4th street-less than four days on the market, they got at least full asking. All four of the penthouses at 845 Montgomery-under contract within 2% of asking. At this price point, the unique places are still moving just fine. And even at the lower price points, where the market has been lagging, NOBODY has been hit for 40%. Again, NOBODY is selling $1,000,000 properties for $600,000, anywhere in San Francisco.
I agree that we are in a slump (it’s obvious), that this market is very different from the ridiculousness we experienced just a few short years ago, but let’s get a grip. It is indisputable that San Francisco has held up extraordinarily well in comparison to the rest of the country. Whether we will continue to do so is definitely up for debate, but we are nowhere near 40% down.
With that said, there is definitely downside to this market. Big downside, and not a lot of upside-at least not in the short term. Which really just means that you buy a place you love, that you can grow into and that you can see yourself living for at least five years, possibly longer. It’s time to start viewing real estate more as a bond that you hold and get utility from than a stock that you turn over in less than two years. If you don’t sell a bond, then you can’t “lose” money, unless the issuer defaults. If you buy and hold real estate, you can’t “lose” money until and unless you sell. If you can’t afford to keep a home, or you’re probably going to have to move for work, family, etc then DO NOT BUY. I remember when this was widely accepted as common financial sense…
When you buy a bond, you receive interest payments.
When you buy real estate, you make interest payments. Somehow, that strikes me as a “loss” of money…
I no more believe the market has dropped 40% than I believe this place is worth $1.7M.
And so I just made a subtle jab at them by stating that if they are right, and the place is priced nearly correctly, when it sells in the future, those of us who are not going to cheerlead every price will be reminding them of their cheerleading ways, and using it to argue (incorrectly – I might add) that the market has dropped by the difference between what they eagerly encouraged *other* people to pay, and the price for which it actually sells.
I never intended to state the market HAS dropped by 40%. What I was very subtly stating was that this place is probably overpriced significantly.
And doomsday? Goodness, I stated I thought this place would be long gone by now, but it’s still on, so I am not a doomsday predictor.
https://socketsite.com/archives/2008/03/through_and_through_and_throughout_on_a_sunny_saturday.html#comments
And it appears that One Rincon felt threatened enough by a resale to have Paul’s ORH listing pulled from the market. So something’s up there too.
And as for not losing money until you sell: WRONG. If the price of real estate goes down, you lose money with every payment you make, which is higher than it would have been had you waited.
So, although I am quite confident that real estate prices will continue to decline significantly, and I haven’t been drinking the same kool aid that some others appear to have, I really don’t see my analysis as a doomsday scenario. So far, I’ve been pretty correct.
@tom
It is a loss of money, but a gain of utility. I was comparing the interest payments gained from a bond to the pleasure and benefits of living in a home you own. And while the interest is certainly a loss, there are tax benefits and (hopefully) the benefit of gaining equity. Before I set off a tirade about the high cost of owning in this city, the break even point in a real estate transaction and the real danger of losing money on the deal believe me, I already know. My point remains-real estate should be viewed with a longer time line than we have been using in this city and large portions of the country. Or just rent, which is clearly money lost that you can never see again, but at least there are defined limits to your losses.
You people are insane. This place looks amazing. As illustrated by one person’s comment, many of you are not informed enough to comment. There IS parking in this buliding. Do your research before you fly off the handle people.
Like I mentioned before, this is a standout building among loft projects in this city – one of the original conversion buildings, very well known and from past history, fairly sought-after among loft buyers. Nothing major for many of you, however, worthy of much consideration when coming to a conclusion about whether it will sell and at this price.
@tipster
Fair enough, didn’t mean to put words in your mouth-I may have missed the sarcasm. However, we’re considering opportunity costs to be losses now? Sorry, I have to shoot a WRONG right back at you. Even in a highly theoretical mathematical model where all assets of a certain price are deemed to be identical (or nearly so) this argument doesn’t hold up. And real estate does not/has not/never will function in this way. The fact remains: If you never realize a “loss”, then it isn’t a loss. Ever.
This place does look amazing, but as a 30-something year old man, I am not going to sleep in a bunk bed. This looks like a good pad for someone obscenely wealthy and in their early 20’s.
If you never realize a “loss”, then it isn’t a loss. Ever.
Really? So lets take two people: one buys a condo for 1M. The condo drops and so someone buys the condo next door for 800K.
Just to placate you, lets assume neither one of them sell their condos. Ever. They just pay off the loan for 30 years and their families pass it down from generation to generation for 500 years, never selling. That’s your ideal situation, right: can’t take a loss if you never sell? Oh, but you can!
The guy who bought the condo for $1M will make monthly payments for 30 years that are 25% more than the guy who bought for 800K. That’s cash out of his pocket every month. That’s a loss. That’s not an opportunity cost, that’s moolah out a ma pocket.
You don’t have to realize the loss in order to take a hit, you’ll take a hit every month on the higher payments.
Got it?
Now, if, by some preposterous stroke of bad luck, you sell it at any time, ever, you’ll take another hit, even if it is selling for 1.1M. The guy who bought for 1M, not only makes higher payments, losing money time and time again, month after month, but to add insult to injury, when he sells it, he takes ANOTHER 200K hit that he would not have taken if he waited and bought for 800K.
So you get double your problems! You lose money every month and THEN you lose your 200K opportunity profit that you didn’t take. Even if you sell at a so called profit.
And if the measure is not selling for less than you paid, the $1M buyer loses AGAIN, because he has to wait longer before he can sell at that level, if ever.
So, no, you are wrong on way too many fronts.
Isn’t it bad luck to have that red cabinet under the bed? Or will that red asian chest fend off the evil spirits?
If you never realize a “loss”, then it isn’t a loss. Ever.
Really? So lets take two people: one buys a condo for 1M. The condo drops and so someone buys the condo next door for 800K.
Just to placate you, lets assume neither one of them sell their condos. Ever. They just pay off the loan for 30 years and their families pass it down from generation to generation for 500 years, never selling. That’s your ideal situation, right: can’t take a loss if you never sell? Oh, but you can!
The guy who bought the condo for $1M will make monthly payments for 30 years that are 25% more than the guy who bought for 800K. That’s cash out of his pocket every month. That’s a loss. That’s not an opportunity cost, that’s moolah out a ma pocket.
You don’t have to realize the loss in order to take a hit, you’ll take a hit every month on the higher payments.
Got it?
The real loss here is being exposed to tipster’s unending negativity.
I live in a place that I love. We’ve made it into an amazing place, and enjoy it with friends and family on a constant basis. While I bought it at a fantastic price and have made many upgrades, I may have “lost” money at this moment in time.
However, I would argue, the much greater loss would be sitting in my previous apartment. Unable to paint the walls without permission. Unable to change an appliance, much less knock down a wall or add a roof deck.
If I’ve lost a bit of money, I’ve still come out much richer in the end.
BTW – great loft. Weird layout. But the closet is worth it.
The real loss here is being exposed to tipster’s unending negativity.
Ha ha, wrong again. I’m optimistic that people will soon be able to purchase homes at prices more in line with their incomes, without sacrificing their lives to do it.
Paint the walls? There are thousands of families in LA, San Diego, the Central Valley and elsewhere who would have gladly given up the financial havoc their homes have caused in order to be restricted from painting the walls. Maybe you can ask them how much “richer” they feel from the experience. Is it negativity to tell someone to wait? Nope, it’s smart thinking if you ask those people. Most americans really don’t have money to burn. Unable to change an appliance? Wrongo: I can move to another place and change all the appliances for the cost of a move. Or in my case, I moved into a place with all new appliances. All high end. I won’t need any new ones for ten years.
And how many walls did you knock down in the last 12 months: I can tell you that a lot of people have lost their entire life’s savings in that period.
I have great confidence that soon, people won’t need to lie about their incomes to buy a home, or get mortgages that spiral upwards forcing them out of their homes within a few years and subjecting them to financial ruin.
What would really be unending negativity is if that weren’t possible.
Foolio’s Rule #1 on Renting:
Just paint the walls. It’ll cost you (at most) $2k when you move out. And, if you pick a nice color and do a really nice job, you may not even have to pay that much.
@tipster
No, I don’t “got it”. There is a fundamental difference between a loss and an opportunity cost. Let’s use stocks as an example. Your argument is basically this: I buy Google today at $450 and sell a year from now at $550. My friend waits three months and buys Google at $400 then sells it the same time I do for $550. You’re saying that-in this scenario-I “lost” $50 a share, compared to my friend. In reality, I never lost anything, I just didn’t gain as much. On the other hand, we both buy at $450 and the stock goes down. So, we decide to hold onto it and wait to see if/when it comes back up. During that time, the money we have in the stock could be used elsewhere: the very definition of an opportunity cost. We still haven’t lost anything. See how silly your argument is? And that is for an asset that is completely identical, that provides no utility during the ownership period. As Amused says above, many of us enjoy aspects of owning our homes that we never could enjoy in a rental. And many of us enjoy spaces which are unique, and not easily found-regardless of the conditions of the market. Again, you can’t “lose” money if you don’t close your position unless the asset ceases to exist (goes bankrupt or in the case of real estate it is destroyed or it becomes condemned).
If housing does go down as much as you think it will, I’m sure you don’t believe it won’t come back up. I know you aren’t saying that prices will fall, forever. Eventually they will rise again, yes? In the meantime, you can live in a place that you can make your own, have at least the opportunity to build some equity-should the market fail to fall by 40% during the time you own-and wait until you are ready/it makes sense to sell. Opportunity cost.
On another note, as we write back and forth Millenium is asking the highest price per square foot in the history of the city. And getting it. All sarcasm and jabbing aside, I’d love to hear what you guys make of that, whether you’re bearish or not.
@lies
Where is your monthly payment in your example. What? There is none.
News flash: there *IS* a monthly payment with a house for most people. So your example doesn’t work.
Here’s one that does:
If every month I buy groceries and so does my neighbor, but I’m required to flush 250 per month down the toilet and my neighbor is not, I think I just lost $250 each and every month. That’s what you get when you overpay for a house. Your MONTHLY PAYMENT IS MORE. EVERY MONTH. Not opportunity cost: CASH. OUT. OF. POCKET.
You’ve been drinking the realtor kool aid way too long.
lol-no realtor Kool Aid for me. I never said the market won’t go down or cheered for people to buy, buy buy! or anything of the sort. As a matter of fact, I said don’t buy if you don’t have a reasonably long time line during which you can afford to hold (and enjoy) a property. I just said you don’t seem to know the difference between an opportunity cost and a loss. I can recommend some good books, if you’d like to read up on it.
😉
If we were doing a rent vs. buy analysis, you’d have a point. But we’re not. Why not agree to disagree-I don’t see either of us swaying the other-and move on.
Millenium-how does that jibe with your analysis of the market? Not trying to be sarcastic (as above)-I’m really interested in what you and teh rest of the bears (and the occasional bull) on this site think about it. Do you think people who buy there are immediately going to be underwater next year? Are we really postulating on this site that the mega wealthy people buying into that building-usually paying all cash-are going to turn around and sell at a 40% loss in three years so those of us who waited can get in at the new valuation point? I know it’s a bit off topic, but Millenium does represent a price point that should be discussed, in light of the consensus on this site of a serious downturn….
Could it be because Mellenium is offering something better than a chopped up tiny section of a ratty old warehouse with $80K in fixtures and appliances for $1.7 mil, unlike the subject of this thread?
Just sayin’.
Re Millenium: Maybe I’m wrong about this, but so far all I’ve seen is rumor/speculation about those “all-cash” Milllenium buyers. Let’s get some hard data before we come to any conclusions on that project.
quakey b wrote, “Let the market decide what it’s worth and quit being cry-babies cause you can’t afford it.”
Umm…aren’t you an appraiser? Very objective and rational analysis there.
Back on topic, seems nothing in this building has sold for over $1.3MM, and that’s a recent comp (#604 sold last month). We’ll see how this showcase fares, though.
I have a bit of insight into what is happening at millennium. They have sold 70+ units thus far, including 7 within the past week and a half. Sold, of course meaning they have contracts and 10% deposits for those units. The Grand Residences and City Residences are selling the quickest.
This is what makes the SF market so unclear-an apparent downturn, a mortgage crisis, and still a project like this selling pretty well at a very high price point. It seems that-in this city-if you build it, they will come.