Seventeen months ago 20 newly constructed two-bedroom condominiums dubbed “Valencia Triangle” at 3184 Mission Street hit the market with prices starting at $659,000 for #302 (which was subsequently reduced to $585,000). This week, “20 newly constructed” 2-bedroom condominiums dubbed “Mission Valencia” at 3184 Mission Street are hitting the market “priced from $599,000” (for #302).
And no, we don’t know what happened to the original offering (or what has changed since).
UPDATE: But a plugged-in reader does (know).
∙ Valencia Triangle (3184 Mission) [SocketSite]
∙ Mission Valencia (3184 Mission Street) [missionvalencia.com]
∙ Listing: 3184 Mission Street #302 (2/1.5) – $599,000 [MLS]
∙ Listing: 3184 Mission Street #401 (2/2) – $799,000 [MLS]
Valencia triangle was forced to halt all sales because they built out more commercial space than was approved. The approvals called for 20 units (2 bmr), 20 parking spaces, and 2 commercial units. The Mark Company, the original selling agent, represented that the two commercial spaces would be a children’s book store and a professional office. Then one day an application for a liquor license appeared on one of the doors to a commercial space. Someone discovered that there were actually three built out commercial spaces instead of two, complained to the city and state, and the public report was rescinded. It took them 15 months to get new approvals to start selling again.
[Editor’s Note: Keller Williams New Homes Division was the orignal broker (and not The Mark Company).]
One parking spot per 2 bedroom unit will hurt.
“One parking spot per 2 bedroom unit will hurt.”
Huh? Where in this city can you get new(ish) construction with more than one parking spot deeded per unit? One parking spot per unit is becoming a luxury (see One Rincon Hill, 733 Front, etc…) and the lack of second spot will have no effect whatsoever on the sale of these units.
the exterior pic reminds me of some of the ratty hotels on Lombard. Ugly building.
These take the neo-Victoria look to a new level
like this location though
so is there going to be a liquor store in the third commercial space?
[Editor’s Note: Not to put words in “mission’s” mouth, but we’re assuming it was a liquor license (as in restaurant) not a liquor store.]
This is truly on of the ugliest building i have ever seen. It is almost as ugly as the neighborhood. One positive: there is plenty of wall space to hang your guns so that you can protect yourself when walking to the corner store.
I honestly would ahve expected a price /sq ft. more around 450-500 for this neighborhood.
#302 would be more properly prioced around $399K instead of $599K.
give it 18 months.
Spencer, your comments are so absurd that the only conclusion I can draw is that you have not been to this neighborhood. It’s amazing to me how many posters on this board seem to regard any neighborhood outside Pac Heights to be some sort of dangerous war zone. Get a grip.
You can walk to 24th street in 5 minutes and cortland in 10 minutes from this location.
No liquor store is going in that I know of- the developer actually placed their offices in one of the spaces.
They rented out the units while they couldn’t sell and it looks like a lot of people are living there still. I had heard a rumor that there were a bunch of units waiting to close as soon as the approvals came in. At least one deed was already recorded.
Anyway, according to the MLS listing there is a “twilight reception” tonight so Spencer can bring his Kevlar and check out the neighborhood.
I agree that the building is extremely ugly, but any interesting design is pooh poohed by all the neighborhood groups.
The exterior pic that they use on the new website is of the interior courtyard, which is very bland.
The exterior facing the street is faux Victoriana. I’m not a fan of the style, but from the street it is inoffensive– certainly much better than the stucco apartments that were built across the street.
The neighborhood is actually pretty nice. Though Mission St. itself is a bit gritty, the building is right next to several excellent restaurants, and there is a new bakery cafe across the street. It is a short walk to the restaurants of outer Church St., to Bernal Hill, to Precita Park, and to 24th St BART. Not a scary neighborhood.
I agree with anono, though (s)he is more diplomatic than the first response that came to my mind.
Spencer: I’m originally from orange county and I know of some 24-hour guarded communities there that would suit you well. Don’t bother getting a grip, just run away. Far away.
The neighborhood’s not my favorite, and it’s a bit farther from from BART than I’d like. But unlike someplace like Citrino, I feel fine walking around this area alone at night. $450-500/sf would be lovely, but unfortunately not going to happen no matter how ugly the exterior is.
I will be there with Kevlar on.
I have been in this neighborhood many times and do not consider it to be desirable..to each his own.
i’m not interested in guarded communities as Kaya suggests. I’m interested in living in an area where no guards or guns are needed. And yes, i do currently live in pacific heights as a renter.
am looking to buy in next 15-24 months, and am hoping soem neghborhoods clean up by that time as Pac Hts is just too expensive. i am not crossing my fingers for this area to clean up enough + it is too far away from the things I enjoy.
Plus i just looked up the stas on sf crim maps and am not interested in this level of crime.
past 90 days within 1000 ft.
ASSAULT 26
BURGLARY 4
DRUG/NARCOTIC 15
LARCENY/THEFT 26
ROBBERY 5
VANDALISM 12
VEHICLE THEFT 16
Grand Total 104
also, i think 500/sq ft is very reasonable for this neighborhood and we will see it in 08-09
KEVLAR?? Very funny. While I agree that this particular stretch of Mission is a bit weird and charmless…it’s not really the Mission, not really Bernal. And the building sucks. But it’s not unsafe here! I’ve lived in a deeper-Mission more charming tree lined part of the Mission for about 20 years, and I have to chuckle when people talk about the danger of my neighborhood. It’s perfectly safe if you are not in a gang. And the sun shines brightly. The restaurants are the best. There are families and people of all ages and colors. Frankly, I wouldn’t be caught dead in Pacific Heights except to go to a therapy session or something. Dullsville. Too many white people with kevlar in their closets. Besides, your money is better spent on a nice old Victorian on Shotwell, Treat, or Lexington….
Actually, within 1000 feet of 3184 Mission St, in the last 90 days, here are the crime stats:
Offense Category Total Chart
ASSAULT 10
BURGLARY 3
DRUG/NARCOTIC 6
LARCENY/THEFT 13
ROBBERY 2
VANDALISM 11
VEHICLE THEFT 11
Grand Total 56
And for Fillmore St and California St, in Pacific Heights, here are the stats:
ARSON 1
BURGLARY 12
LARCENY/THEFT 45
ROBBERY 1
VANDALISM 5
VEHICLE THEFT 4
Grand Total 68
More violent crime within 1000 feet of 3184 Mission St, but more overall crime within 1000 feet of California and Fillmore Sts.
Spencer wrote he searched within 1000 feet, but instead he searched 1/4 mile.
If you search within 1/4 mile of California and Fillmore Sts, you get a total of 117 crimes, still more than the 104 within 1/4 mile of 3184 Mission St.
“so is there going to be a liquor store in the third commercial space?”
I think there is a liquor license moratorium on this stretch of Mission. The only chance that a liquor license will be approved is if it is a restaurant. Even then, some of the newer restaurants nearby have only a beer/wine license.
And if you think you have to go even further north, into the Marina, to be safe: within 1/4 mile of Chestnut and Scott, in 90 days, there were 96 total crimes, including 9 assaults.
Interesting, I’m in that neighborhood a lot. Cole Hardware, The Front Porch, Emmy’s, El Rio, The Knockout, Good Frikin Chicken!, etc. I was wondering why they stopped selling.
Yeah, faux Victorian, blah. In between two very busy streets, a hospital, sort of an in between neighborhood. But it is a neighborhood that has come a very long way. I can think of at least six more killer restaurants than the ones I mentioned the top of my head. And it is not dangerous at all. There isn’t even any gang activity that I’ve seen. But yeah, they are busy streets and all walks of life can be found on busy city streets. Staggering home drunk at 2:30 a.m. might invite some trouble if you do it over and over again.
california and fillmore is lower pac heigts, closer to fillmore area (high crime).
Pacific heights proper starts at sac
Actually, we were in the neighborhood yesterday. It was noisy, but other than that, seemed just fine. Fluj is also correct – there are some very good restaurants around the development. From what I understand, the corner commercial space in the building is going to be a local coffee shop/cafe. Units look very nice inside.
I live in the building right now, but will be moving out in the next two weeks.
The management company has been terrible. They’re currently strong-arming all of the tenants into refurbishing the units back up to new condition by withholding security deposits. This is, of course, illegal, but it remains to be seen whether or not we’ll band together and take them to court over it before everyone disperses.
To the best of my knowledge, few, if any, of the tenants living here are going to stay. They offered all of us the opportunity to buy our residences with the first year of rent applied as an incentive.
In the past year, we’ve had three break-ins. If you drive by the place, you’ll notice that there are fake owls on many of the second and third floor mission-side patio railings. These are to ward off the pigeons, who turn the patios into toxic wastelands faster than you can blink.
The apartments are nice in some ways, but unremarkable in others. Rooms are small, closet space does not exist, and we were instructed not to hang anything on any of the walls shared with bathrooms, because they contain plumbing and wiring that would be easily destroyed by nails.
As much as I hate moving, I can’t wait to get away from this place.
If you look at within 1000 feet of Fillmore and Washington Sts, so the southern tip of the 1000 foot circle is California St, one gets 50 crimes, versus 56 within 1000 feet of 3184 Mission St.
But on second thought, Spencer, it is very, very dangerous south of California St. I recommend that you (and any Marina/Cow Hollow folks reading) never, never, go south of California St.
(Especially, never, never, try to go south of California St to try to get in to Range, the Front Porch, or Foreign Cinema when I’m trying to get a table there….)
Spencer you must be a real sissy
Are you a vertical gated community dweller too?
the faux Victorian fits ok. Not my preference either but clearly not horrible
And I guess to each is own, but I think this is one of the more diverse and interesting parts of SF. Really eclectic restaurants and bars, mixes of people, and near by B. Heights is interesting too
There is also some great opportunities for in-fill out this way juxtaposed with buildings as old as the inner Mission. I might be mistaken but this spot used to be a fast food place wasn’t it?
You might even meet a local out there
There used to be a Taco Bell there.
It’s kind of an inbetween neighborhood, squeezed in by Glen Park, Bernal, Noe and Inner Mission It’s a ten minute walk for me and it’s good to visit whether to eat or shop, day or night. Plus you’ve got Mitchell’s right there on San Jose. That’s a huge plus.
But if I was to live there I would choose to live at 199 Tiffany, corner of Mission and 29th. Not sure if this link will work,
http://sfarmls.rapmls.com/scripts/mgrqispi.dll
MLS#331468
I agree that the Tiffany Avenue properties generally are better than the Mission Valencia. More functional layout, and they actually have closets. It was a little bizarre walking through the Valencia Triangle (now Mission Valencia) and seeing no closets at all in the bedrooms. Tiffany Ave is much quieter and nicer than the intersection of Mission and Valencia- though that’s right by Taqueria Cancun. Mmmm.
The 199 Tiffany property for sale is the first resale in that building, and both buildings were built by the same builder.
The architect must have been truly inspired because these units have windows that open vertically and windows that open horizontally. Brilliant! European elegance!
I like the Mission, generally–it has the best restaurants in the city. But it is pretty dodgy at (drunks, drugs, homeless, vandalism). No denying that.
as to the comments about 199 Tiffany, I live close to this area, and I’ve heard really bad things about the situation with the common space (internal patio for the residantial area) and tenants in the commercial spaces demanding to use some of the condo’s common area/facilities for their customers. There have aparently been some serious security issues because of this fact. Sounds like an ugly battle to get caught up in after spending what is actually a lot of money for something jammed into a busy block of this little gritty urban enclave.
the common area dispute at 199 Tiffany is sloooowly being worked out. Note that one the three partners of the slimy developer that created that situtation also built 3184 Mission.
Anyway, did anyone attend the “twilight reception” at 3184 Mission? What did you think?
As of now, when one goes down an outdoor staircase to the restrooms at Goood Frikin Chicken, one has access to the common courtyard of 199 Tiffany.
That’s interesting to hear about 199 Tiffany. We visited the building and thought the exterior was beautiful, and the interiors were very nice as well. But the courtyard did not appeal, as well as havnig the exterior metal walkways that allowed strangers to pass by your windows.
anono – why would you call the developer “slimy” – what have you heard?
There are only two things separating the Mission from the rest of the city in the quality of life category: 1) crime is usually gang-on-gang, working class latin on working class latin, and if you don’t belong to one of those groups, you get a free pass; and 2) my MIssion neighborhood is filthier than the rest of town, unfortunately. If you can deal with a little grime, the housing stock (ginormous Victorians with big back yards), weather, restaurants and culture are ALL superior.
I would love to provide all of the info on the slimeball developers of 199 tiffany but there is too much litigation going on now. Check out 199tiffanyave.com, “disclosures”. The courtyard mess is being worked out before a mediator. A lot of realtors stopped taking clients to this building due to the developer’s misrepresentations, and the same listing agent and firm are now the agent for the first resale. It will be interesting to see if anyone bites. Great building, unfortunate litigation mess with the courtyard.
This would never happen in Los Angeles.
From reading all the comments about neighborhood quality of life, I am simply amazed that anyone would spend $600K or more to live at the corner of Valencia & Mission. This lot before was a Taco Bell and Church’s Chicken.
In less than one year, I can guarantee that you will be tired of living there because of the crime, homelessness, graffiti and theft. You and your family will not be happy. Your place will be like a prison and you will only leave by car. You will get harassed walking just 5 blocks to Bart.
I am 45 years old and was born and raised in San Francisco. I pretty much know every single neighborhood it’s pluses and minuses.
For the past 30 years, a lot of neighborhoods are still the same as it was back then. Many areas have never changed, for good or bad.
Anyone, especially people from out of state, not familiar with San Francisco areas, needs to really do their homework before spending one dime on buying any property.
Marina, Sunset, parts of Bernal Heights, Noe Valley, Twin Peaks, Eureka Valley, Pac Heights and other areas were always great places to live back then and still is today.
I live in Noe Valley. Do you think that Noe Valley just all of sudden became a great neighborhood to live in? Absolutely not, it’s been like this since I was born in 1962. Even though crime has been up for the past year.
Hunter’s Point, many areas of Mission St., Ingleside, parts of Bernal Heights, Western Addition, Excelsior, etc. were not so desirable back then and still is not good today.
REMEMBER: What makes an area good or bad are the people who live and patronize these areas, not the new or rehabbed buildings that these developers try to sell to some “born a minute suckers”.
TIP: Drive around an area that you like at all hours (midnight, etc.) of the day to see what it’s like living there before spending your $$$.
“In less than one year, I can guarantee that you will be tired of living there because of the crime, homelessness, graffiti and theft. You and your family will not be happy. Your place will be like a prison and you will only leave by car. You will get harassed walking just 5 blocks to Bart.”
I know this neighborhood better than Noe Valley Daniel, and I have to disagree.
I’ve lived just up Bernal hill from the Mission Valencia development for the past 12 years. I walk down from my home to that area all the time, including at night, when I patronize neighborhood restaurants. I walk to 24th St. BART frequently.
I have never been victimized, robbed, harassed, or had graffiti on my property in my 12 years here. I can’t remember being asked for money by a panhandler.
In contrast, when I lived in 94114, I was robbed (twice), harassed, assaulted, and asked for money on a near-daily basis.
I agree with Dan – and also must disagree with Daniel – we were out for a rather late dinner just the other night at Blue Plate – about 1/2 block from the Mission Valencia development – and there was little to nothing going on in the area. Other than noise from traffic on the street, it was relatively quiet. We walked several blocks to and from the restaurant and did not feel threatened or unsafe within the least. Didn’t notice much graffiti either – not nearly as much as up the hill in Noe, where we live.
Kaya says it’s a bit farther from BART- maybe she’d like to live in BART, This property is about 3 blks away from the 24th St. station.
I wouldn’t particularly want to live on 2 busy street frontages. The neighborhood keeps improving by leaps and bounds every year since I’ve lived there (9 yrs.)though Chicken John sold the Odeon 🙁
The Kelley Moore site is another to be developed and if the socialists can keep their hands off private property the neighborhood will improve that much more. ((and if Salvation Army was righteous it would sell some of it’s property nearby and build or renovate the rest of its property the area would shine even more, imo.
I do appreciate the comments of the person that lived there and is moving out- I would heed those words were I to consider living there.
I have to disagree with Dan & movingback.
It depends on who you are. If you are a single man, you will not get harassed as much as a single woman or single woman with kids.
Walk anywhere along Mission St., from 16th St. to 30th St., how many families do you see walking during the day? Not too many? Unless you live there. How many families do you see walking along 24th St., from Diamond St. to Church St.? Much more families?
For sake of argument, I use a simple test, it’s called the Starbucks Factor. If there’s a Starbucks nearby, it’s okay. Give it a try, it works.
No matter who you are; man, woman, single, married, with kids, whatever, even if you have never gotten harassed, robbed or beaten in your life. Those neighborhoods are very dirty, drug dealing, gang bangers with loud music, etc. Would you want to subject your kids and family to that type of atmosphere?
Like to SF crime blog proves, it’s the violent crimes (shootings, murders, robberies, etc.) that matter the most.
To Dan & movingback, are you telling me that the area around Valencia & 30th St. & Mission St. is more popular than 24th St. near Castro & Sanchez St.? Even though you claim there is more graffiti and you were robbed twice in the Noe Valley area.
“Walk anywhere along Mission St., from 16th St. to 30th St., how many families do you see walking during the day?”
I see lots of families on Mission St.– or do they not count if some are Latino?
“I use a simple test, it’s called the Starbucks Factor. If there’s a Starbucks nearby, it’s okay.”
If the presence of a Starbucks defines a good neighborhood for you, than you have different criteria for a desirable neighborhood than I do.
There is at least one Starbucks in the Mission. But if Starbucks tried to open up on Bernal’s commercial streets (Cortland or the Bernal stretch of Mission St), there would be strong opposition.
Anyway, Mission and 16th St is a different neighborhood than Mission and Valencia Sts. The commercial strip around Mission and Valencia serves Bernal Heights. Clearly, you don’t spend much time around Mission St at Valencia St, as your perceptions are far from reality.
In terms of your question of which neighborhood is more “popular,” I’m not sure what you mean. When I was buying a house, I looked at Bernal Heights and Noe Valley. While I could afford to buy in either neighborhood, and I liked both, I found that I could get more house with a better view in northwest Bernal. The Noe Valley stretch of 24th St is pleasant, but a bit dull. And it is much faster and more pleasant to get downtown on BART than on the J-Church.
It would not be my preference to live right on a busy street like Mission St, but I like that I am able to walk to its great restaurants (better than 24th St), walk to stores like Cole Hardware, walk to independent coffee shops rather than to a Starbucks, etc.
The point of my posting to disagree with you, Daniel, was not to compare the relative merits or popularity of Noe Valley vs Bernal Heights or the Mission, but to state that for those who live there, this neighborhood does not resemble your description.
Daniel – just to clarify, I have not been robbed in Noe or the Mission. There is no denying that anywhere along 24th street in Noe Valley is popular-and you can have your pick of coffee shops. Personally, we prefer Bernie’s – the location of what used to be Tully’s, next to Bell Market. My point was we were in the area for dinner the other night and didn’t see anything out of the ordinary going on. Just our experience. Of course it’s noisy, it’s the Mission. However, you can’t embrace living in a city if you are scared of it.
I also live in the building and am a bit worried about the management company – hearing from other tenants that have moved out, the management company is keeping HUGE amounts of of security deposits in violation of SF law which allows for security deposits to be used only for ordinary wear and tear. If the management company is willing to take such questionable actions now, it makes you wonder about how their practices will continue in the future. Despite tenants expressing their concerns to the mgmt company, no explanation have been given to the tenants at large.
To Dan & Movingback, I would like to apologize for a discussion that was sometimes heated. There is no need to bicker back and forth. Opinions are opinions, you have yours, I have mine. There is no right or wrong.
I am a man who can take care of myself in any neighborhood in SF. There are many nice restaurants along Mission St. near Valencia St., but to me, doesn’t justify living there. I have been to Mi Lindo Peru and the Blue Plate restaurant on many occasions.
Since there are many people from out the area reading this website, my goal is to make sure that they know there are many neighborhoods to choose from and to do their homework. Spending $500k or more on a condo or house is not pocket change. They need to make the right decision without regretting it later. It can and will cost you $$$ thousands.
I live off Precita Park, walk to 24th Street Bart and frequent the businesses on Mission south of Cesar Chavez regularly. You could not pay me to move, this neighborhood simply rocks, for the people, the food, the convenience, and the sunlight.
Spencer, a renter in Pac Heights, you sound like a real piece of work. Keep your cable bill paid up and stay home, and you’ll be fine.
Daniel, since 1993 I’ve lived in Noe, the Panhandle, the Tenderloin, Nob Hill, and now Precita Park, and each has its advantages. My personal knowledge of violent crime however is Cole Valley (friend pistol whipped), the inner Sunset (friend shot and killed). With all due respect, this is a city and stuff happens. Even in Noe, even if your neighborhood prejudices are to the contrary
p.s. The building at 3184 Mission Street would be SO MUCH BETTER if it wasn’t PINK.
Don’t mess with members of the cult of Bernal:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2006/01/20/carollloyd.DTL&hw=cult+of+bernal&sn=002&sc=999
“Spencer, a renter in Pac Heights, you sound like a real piece of work. Keep your cable bill paid up and stay home, and you’ll be fine.”
I have no idea what this means.
I don’t have cable. I am an extremely active eprson wo is hardly ever home. In fact, just got back from a triathlon in bermuda. I like going to the mission for the restaurants as much as anyone else. i just prefer coming home to peace and quiet and safety.
I have lived in different neighborhoods in SF. I have been mugged twice and stabbed during one of these muggings. Based on my experience, living in a “lively diverse and up and coming neighborhood” is not worth the price when i can visit and come home to a quiet friendly peaceful home. I rent a 2bdroom 1 blk off Fillmore for $2100/month for me to buy in a less than safe nighborhood such as this one, pay double my rent in mortgage and have to deal with my car getting stolen, would just be plain stupid. Instead i can sock my money away, wait for the 20% market haircut and buy a nice 2bdrm in pac heights for $800K in 2009. Security and the peace of getting a good night’s sleep is worth the premium.
Spencer, you hit it right on the mark! No doubt Mission St. has some great restaurants, but why do you have to live there to enjoy a meal? I live in Twin Peaks where it’s also quiet, have peace of mind and safety. And most importantly, why over spend on buying a property in a neighborhood (Mission St.) when there are other numerous neighborhoods that are much better? A couple of restaurants doesn’t make a great area.
As a young woman moving to SF from LA, I am looking into this area, as it appears to be more reasonable in price compared to other areas. Reading the comments, it seems that there is a divide in the perception of the Mission street area. Is it advisable for a single woman to live here?
Movinggirl,
IMHO, no way. If i had a sister or girlfriend moving into SF,I would absolutely try my hardest to talk them out of it. There is a lot og gang activity and petty crime in this area. IMHO, it would not be safe for a single woman after dark. As a tall athletic single male, I would choose not to live here because of the crime as well.
There are a lot of safer areas that are also less expensive than Marina, Pacific Heights orRussian Hill.
For instance , the inner Richmond, inner Sunset, USF area, Twin Peaks, Diamond Heights, Cole Valley are much safer than this area.
If I were to live in the Mission, It would be West of or on Guerrero
I am amazed that some of you can even live in San Francisco given how afraid you are of walking down the street. This area is fine. I know because I live there. My wife walks to and from the 24th street BART station- Gasp!- after dark- double Gasp!!- by herself!
My building has many single women who also walk this entire neighborhood. It’s classic commentary to hear people who don’t live in this area talk about popping in to eat at Blue Plate- a decidedly mediocre, overpriced restaurant that apparently is the only thing the Pac Heights/Marina dwellers know about this area of the mission.
Next time you’re in the area with your kevlar on and uzi’s at the ready, skip Blue Plate and head to Front Porch- if you can find your way through the gangs and roving bands of criminals that apparently stalk the area.
The perception of this area does knock some money off the price of a condo. If you go two blocks on either side of Mission- Noe or Bernal- from Blue Plate, you will pay at least 200-300K more for the same place. We decided to save the 300K and tough out the extra two blocks. It’s more than worth it.
The stretch of Mission St near Mission Valencia is the commercial district for NW Bernal Heights. Demographically, Bernal has one of the highest concentrations of lesbians in the City. Hence there are lots of women walking around without men to protect them.
Stay in the Marina and Cow Hollow, if you like. You won’t live longer– it might just seem longer.
Oh, and I agree– the Front Porch is much better than Blue Plate. But let’s keep it quiet, OK? It’s hard emough to get a table there.
movinggirl, go check out the area for yourself, you’ll see its a lot of fun and nowhere near as dangerous as some people try and make it out to be. I’ve never felt unsafe there.
p.s. is the front porch really that good? Maybe I went on an off night but I wasn’t overly impressed.
There have been 27 reported assaults within 1000 ft of this address over the past 90 days.
Some people are comforted by the perception of safety, but once it happens to you, you begin to value security much more.
personally, i would rather pay to live in a safer area.
Ok Spence, do that.
Thank you everyone for input…I will try to check out the different areas I am looking at when I visit over the holidays.
I’m trying to figure out spencers motivation here. You could pull out scary numbers from all over the place. this is kind of silly.
baron- there was a brief (6 mos.?) time went something went awry at front porch and we had to avoid it. But now it’s back in its full greatness.
I’m trying to figure out spencers motivation here.
as a previous victim of violent crime, i am terying to inform people that there are certain neighborhoods that people are moving into that may not be as safe as they grew up in. there is a lot of perceived security in this city and a lot of hapless victims.
crime and gang activity have been rising in Sf over the past few years and there are people paying exorbitant amounts to live where it is not safe. I think they should know or at least think about these things.
Gentrification is not all its cracked up to be sometimes.
Ultimately it would be nice if we could get people to the polls to vote out Gavin newsom and Kamala Harris and put in people who are tougher on violent crime, drug use, and homelessness so that we could all feel safe living anywhere in the city
Spencer wrote: “There have been 27 reported assaults within 1000 ft of this address over the past 90 days.”
Actually, Spencer, I corrected you already on this thread:
Within 1000 feet of 3184 Mission St, in the last 90 days, here are the crime stats:
Offense Category Total Chart
ASSAULT 10
BURGLARY 3
DRUG/NARCOTIC 6
LARCENY/THEFT 13
ROBBERY 2
VANDALISM 11
VEHICLE THEFT 11
Grand Total 56
As I posted above, there have been 20% more reported crimes around Spencer’s neighborhood in Pac Heights (within 1000 feet of California and Fillmore) than within 1000 feet of Mission Valencia.
Spencer wrote: “as a previous victim of violent crime, i am terying to inform people that there are certain neighborhoods that people are moving into that may not be as safe as they grew up in. there is a lot of perceived security in this city and a lot of hapless victims.”
Thanks for your concern, Spencer. I grew up in Beverly Hills, but I feel pretty safe in Bernal Heights, near Mission Valencia. I too was the victim of a pretty horrific violent crime, but it took place in a fancier SF neighborhood.
Movinggirl, since you’re moving from LA, my LA analogy would be if you got advice from guys from living in Brentwood, who were horrified that you might consider living in Silverlake.
Dan, thank you for that analogy. Silver Lake is not bad at all…my cousin lives there (a young, single woman, like me).
Do you people REALLY believe the Mission is safer than Pacific Heights? I’ll bet part of what the statistics don’t show is that a Pacific Heights resident is far more likely to file a police report for a crime than someone in the Mission.
While Mission St itself, between Cesar Chavez and Randall Sts, is sometimes called part of the Mission, the surrounding area, even 1 house off Mission St., is NW Bernal Heights. The 3 houses closest to mine in NW Bernal that sold in the past year fetched between $1.3 and $1.5 million. And yes, we here in Bernal Heights are just as likely to file police reports as people in Pac Heights. The last precinct captain at Ingleside Station communicated closely with neighborhood groups, and encouraged us to be on his email list.
There are some assaults and other crime in and around the bars along our stretch of Mission St, but if you look at the # of crimes reported by setting the 1000 foot circle just off Mission St, you’ll see that the adjoining neighborhoods are some of the safest parts of the city– about 20 crimes in the last 90 days, all non-violent, versus 2-3 times as many in much of Pac Heights.
sorry Dan. I was actually looking at 1/4 mile for this address.
regardless, within 1/4 mile of this address, there have been 27 assaults reported over the past 90 days.
eithin 1/4 mile of sacramento and fillmore (edge of pacific heights), there have been 5 reported assaults in the past 90 days…so the assault rate is 520% higher.
And people in pacific heights are more likley o report crimes based on socioeconomic measures in crime reporting studies.
anyway, i don’t want to argue. i just think it’s good for people, especially single women or out of towners to know the facts about a neighborhodd before they become a victim.
Hey, I know this is a little off-topic, but could the locals kick down a couple of the best eats/best drinks in this area for me?
All within a block or two of Mission and Valencia Sts:
Food:
Front Porch: Caribbean/California (on 29th just west of Mission)
Emmy’s Spaghetti Shack: Funky decor; Cal-Ital.
Jasmine Tea House: Solid Chinese, with some excellent dishes; quick delivery
Dusit Thai: Love the eggplant with crispy basil. Delivery. Good value.
Pad Thai: Another solid choice for Thai, though I tend to go to Dusit.
Lotus Garden: Vietnamese. They love this place on Chowhound– I need to try this place again.
Mi Lindo Peru and Inkas: Two inexpensive Peruvian restaurants– each worth trying, though my experience has been mixed.
Goood Frikin Chicken: Takeout rotisserie and grilled chicken; sit in restaurant with the chicken and pretty good Middle Eastern food.
Yo’s Sushi Club: Really fresh, thick slices of fish, and good value. Just has some excellent nigiri and sashimi there last week.
Also many pupuserias and taquerias and other Latino restaurants, including El Zocalo, Altena, Cancun.
Bars include: El Rio– esp. Fridays after work, with raw oysters on patio.
Argus Lounge
The Knockout– bands, DJs.
Oh, didn’t mention Blue Plate, Nervous Dog Cafe for coffee, and Socha Cafe for coffee and baked goods.
The real dangerous places to be in SF are the projects in the southeast, Oceanview, Lakeview, the buchanan corridor, Webster between Haight and Grove, and Turkwood. And the Metreon on Friday or Saturday nights. This is gang stuff and violent gang on gang drug related activity. But they will occasionally mess with civilians. This is unlike some of the Mission hoods, who don’t care about civilans. The Mission gangsters will generally only get mad at you if you try to reserve the astroturf soccer field at Garfield square and you aren’t a kid’s or a woman’s team.
By the way, another really good neighborhood resto over there on Mission is Angkor Borei. It’s Cambodian. I never had it before the other day. It’s really interesting how you can totally taste how the country sits between Vietnam and Thailand.
Oh yeah, didn’t mention Angkor Borei for Cambodian– since it’s another block or 2 down Mission from the other places I listed. And if one goes that extra block or two down Mission, there’s also Indian food at Spicy Bite and at Zante.
Also, there’s a new cafe opening up at 3184 Mission. And, opening soon at Mission and Precita, Baby Blues BBQ.
thank you!
This neighborhood (Valencia & Mission) sucks! My car has been broken into twice in the past month on Coleridge. Once during the day and one and night. There was nothing to take. Shattered the passenger window for no reason. Thank god my lease is up. I’m outta here! I’ll just come here to eat, but never to live.
Cars get broken into on the street in every neighborhood in the city because there is so little police presence combined with so many drug users and homeless people. No matter where you move to, if you park on the street long enough, someone will vandalize your car.
I agree, I live here and the only time I’ve had my car broken into was while parked in a more upmarket neighborhood.
I just moved here. Absolutely loving it.
welcome to the neighborhood. Check out SoCha, the neighborhood’s newest spot, if you’re in to tasty baked goods.
I wanted to post my recent impressions of Mission Valencia since some of the only info I could find about the place came of the blogs. I saw several of the units at an open house last week and was most interested in #302, which is currently on the market for $549K (reduced price) with 2 yrs paid HOA. This is one of the smaller, cheaper units.
The unit was very nice and new with a great kitchen and living room. However, the bedrooms were tiny and the bathroom layout seemed odd with the washer/ dryer taking up a lot of the space. The unit also overlooks busy Mission St. and the BART grates, and when the trains went by (which is very often) it was quite loud. There was almost no storage space in the unit, just small closets in the bedrooms. I did not see evidence of the pigeon problem that I had read about on the blogs, but there was a fake owl on the balcony. The balcony was really small and not very usable–I would’ve rather had storage space.
You have to make your own decision about the neighborhood and how safe you feel there, so I won’t go into that. The parking is secured and overall the building seemed secure. You can walk to 24th St. BART and there is bus service on Mission right outside the building. But other than the bars and restaurants in the immediate vicinity of the building, I don’t think you’d be able to walk to very many fun places (Noe Valley, Bernal Heights) very easily. But they would be a short drive/trip away.
Overall, the building is nice and new, but the unit still seemed overpriced for what you get even with the incentives and price reductions. However, if you are looking in this price range, it is one of the nicer things I have seen for below 600K. If the price comes down another 50K, I think it would be a great buy. Hopefully, this will help someone out there.
Looks like they just closed on one of the units there #401 for $705,000 or about $603.60 a square foot on 05/15/08. Not exactly the armageddon predicted by the SS doomsayers.
These places are closing for huge discounts to the original list prices and pretty big discounts to the prices of this spring. #401 sold for $705K, way down from $799K (and the real original list price of $849K way back in May 2006). #302 closed for $547K, down from an original list of $659K and a revised list price of $599K. By the way, #401 is clearly the best unit in the place and I suspect further discounts are in the works.
Huge price reductions here now, just as I have long predicted.
There is a 1350 sq. ft. top floor unit listed at $599K. I think half of the market rate units are still available and the developer is advertising a close-out sale.
This property and neighborhood seems to be quite polarizing.
My roommate bought one of the Mission Valencia units and we moved in 9 months ago. So far, I have nothing but great things to say about the property. While I was not crazy about the neighborhood upon first sight, it grew on me very quickly. I never feel unsafe, have never had any issues with crime, and have never had to stray more than 3 blocks from my apartment as you literally have EVERYTHING you could ever want in that radius.
Two thumbs up from me.