Purchased for $2,177,000 in April 2006 but significantly expanded and remodeled by architect Jonathan Feldman and interior designer Joseph Oroza since (including adding a new bathroom, turning outdoor space in, and remodeling the kitchen and dining), the now 3,106 square foot designer home with big glass doors and some big city views at 55 Buena Vista Terrace returned to the market in September 2008 asking $3,395,000.
Withdrawn from the market in November 2008 but then relisted anew in January 2009 asking $2,995,000, the list price for the designer home was reduced to $2,695,000 that February and then $2,595,000 that April before being withdrawn again that June.
Listed anew once again this past September with an “original” list price of $2,295,000 (and an official one day on the market per aggregate industry reports), as a plugged-in reader notes, yesterday the list price for 55 Buena Vista Terrace was reduced to $2,100,000.
∙ Listing: 55 Buena Vista Terrace (3/3.5) 3,106 sqft – $2,100,000 [MLS]
∙ Big Swinging…Doors (And Here Comes The Competition) [SocketSite]
∙ Riders On The Storm (The Doors Of 55 Buena Vista Terrace Reduced) [SocketSite]
∙ From Easy Profit To Likely Loss For 55 Buena Vista Terrace [SocketSite]
A house that sold for $2.177 during the bubble is being listed for $2.1. Oh sure, they’ve spent some money sprucing it up in between. But not much of a crash, is it? Out in the central valley you can find houses that sold for 400k during the bubble that are at 150k now. That’s a housing crash.
If a drop from 2.177 to 2.1 is what we are seeing in the worst SF real estate crash in our lifetimes, imagine what prices are going to do when the crash is over.
[Editor’s Note: Keep in mind that we’d be willing to bet the sum of that “some money sprucing it up” alone is more than the $250K loss you mention. And quite possibly, more than the entire $400K value of that hypothetical house.]
What did the new construction and remodel cost that they are giving away? 10k? 100k? 1 million? Any estimates or guesses? I have no idea, although the fact that they first added $1.2 million to the price when trying to sell in 2008 would lend one to believe it was not cheap (or they were delusional – a possibility). Since this is not an “apple” we can all argue about what it indicates market-wise, but reasonable estimates of the remodel costs will add to the discussion.
They apparently made existing lower rooms into livable space. That’s going to cost money but not as much money as some other remodels can cost. YMMV.
[Editor’s Note: That’s true, but that new steel beam below would suggest it was a lot more costly than simply refinishing the space.]
Ha, ha, “significantly expanded and remodled” becomes “sprucing it up” only in the minds of the permabulls.
He makes losing a half million dollars sound as easy as fluffling a few pillows. Unfortunately, they probably poured a year of their lives into this thing and now they have to pay the bank to let someone to take it off their hands! Now THAT would make anyone bitter.
But face it, sellers are getting more and more desperate and will do what it takes to bail out of this market before their losses get even worse. And that fact is assured.
A quick click through DBI show permits at about $200k or a little more. What is reasonable – about double that for real costs? If so, that’s about a 20% decline, which would be right in the ballpark.
Even at face value, you’re looking at a bigger loss (at asking) than those loser buyers in the Central Valley suffered in total dollars.
OTOH, this place looks very, very nice.
Per the stated costs on the building permits (which can be much lower than actual costs) the total is $210,000. This includes a $25k new roof completed 2 weeks ago.
And *still* no way to deal with the flies 🙂
It’s funny how the styling looks dated already. All brown and gray… Makes me drool over 85 Buena Vista even more.
this place has a split personality. its modern downstairs and traditional upstairs. hard to believe they thought the original price was possible.
“If a drop from 2.177 to 2.1 is what we are seeing in the worst SF real estate crash in our lifetimes, imagine what prices are going to do when the crash is over.”
A) Haven’t some permabulls been posting this very same idea for the last 2 years? Which begs the begs the question, do they think the crash is over? When WILL the crash be over?
B) To answer the implied question, prices are likely to do little but drift sideways for a long period as the job market slowly recovers the 8 million jobs lost and absorbs the 100K monthly increase in job seekers, buyers face tighter credit standards, interest rates likely rise from these historic lows, the market absorbs the 3 Million home overhang left over from the bubble, and wages drift up with inflation.
While improved, there is nothing in the current economic outlook to suggest a strong return to demand that would start driving prices. From all that we can tell at the current time, at best, prices will begin to stabilize, nothing more.
Oh c’mon paco, you were here during the boom. Their expectations were totally in line with the 2004-2007 appreciation curve. It is just that their product came to the market at the absolute worst timing. Had this been ready six months earlier they might have hit close to $3M.
As for the costs we also need to include the architectural, design, and engineering plans. Yes, I realize that the owners did much of this themselves though sweat equity counts too. Perhaps the designers and architects here can give a ballpark figure of what they would have billed on this job.
… and I’m really looking forward to see how the Bourne Mansion turns out after it is spruced up.
“Makes me drool over 85 Buena Vista even more.”
That’s the problem with this market. There are so many homes for sale, there is always another home, better and cheaper than yours!
And it’s getting worse! According to redfin, there were more than TWICE as many homes, condos and townhouses listed in the last 24 hours than sold during the entire previous week!
When listings in a single day are twice the number of sales for the entire week, it’s going to be a long, cold winter. And right when the jobs report was a disaster!
sub-par house in sub-par location. they didn’t actively add value. short hold. i’m surprised how well good seats are selling. for the record, i don’t believe in interchangeable luxury condos.
those of us in the trenches know prices have bottomed and the medians are up year over year and the perma renters are doomed to schlepp their families from rental to rental.
you guys don’t understand how things really work… there are many good buildings in good nabes in es ef.
Interesting house…
…and I know it doesn’t come with the house…
…but I would be seriously creeped-out having the Wicked Witch silently screeching at me in my own home 🙂
this is a VERY livable house, I would live here.
my only qualm with the actual remodel is those weird doors that hinge in the middle… they should have put in a beam and then you could have patio doors that open all the way up. a relatively big bang for relatively small work IMO.
clearly the top poster was disingenuous implying that the drop in value has only been $77k. but the amount of drop will always be in contention given different valutions of the remodel and also the sweat equity of the previous owners
MLS statistics on the other hand will simply state “77k loss” (assuming it sells near this price)…
—
my original timeline for housing recovery (that I made back in 2006-2007 before we even had a recession!) was set at Dec 2011, but I was initially surprised at our leader’s unwillingness to tackle the problem and their willingness to zombify our banking system. Thus, who knows when this will end.
on the positive side: we’ve had a few positive economic numbers lately including the increase in the jobs number (although it failed expectations), however on the negative side it has required a substantial amount of government largesse to achieve, and we still have not really addressed the major structural problem in our economy (insolvent banking system). How will the govt behave going forward with the new power shift?
it’ll be an interesting year!
He makes losing a half million dollars sound as easy as fluffing a few pillows.
From the timing of the original sale, it seems clear (at least to me) that they were going for $500k tax-free with a two year hold. Zack/deVito they’re not.
“””And it’s getting worse! According to redfin, there were more than TWICE as many homes, condos and townhouses listed in the last 24 hours than sold during the entire previous week!
When listings in a single day are twice the number of sales for the entire week, it’s going to be a long, cold winter. And right when the jobs report was a disaster! “””
listings probably doubled because last week was christmas holidays (when no one lists).
you’d have to check prior years to see if it’s typical or not.
I’ve been an occasional lurker here for years.. first post.
Why post now? I felt compelled to write just now after seeing that this property had come back up.
This exact property was how I found my way to SocketSite back in 2008. Specifically, I was attending an open house, and the showing agent proudly cited the fact that the property had been featured on SS. –What’s SS? I replied innocently…..
I’m certainly glad he pointed me to SS! I surely do enjoy following the lively back and forth, and have learned a lot about SF real estate in the process.
-Raschio
Jeez, gives these guys a break. It’s a great house and I am sure that they put their heart and soul into the renovation. I feel sorry for them.
I mentioned on the 85 BVT thread the few places up here that aren’t selling. I watched a few of these homes sell back in 05-08 and never understood the pricing or buyer mindset. You’re basically a step away from the haight and duboce; nothing wrong with those areas but for that $/psf you can find very nice homes over in D7 and than BV Park you’re not really walking distance to anything. There are a few other up there on the market on the terraces suffering as well. Don’t really know enough about the market there to make a prediction but I assume they will do OK, but will be off peak for sure as buyers realize their money can buy better location. Plus, the mayor will spending less time in this part of the city too now I assume.
ex SF-er – I may be wrong but I think those pivoting doors might slide to the side and out of the way…seems like a lot of bang for the buck considering the amazing views and the high end touches. If I had the money I would definitely pick this one over the 2.3 million listing on Prosper in a heart beat!
[Editor’s Note: That’s true, but that new steel beam below would suggest it was a lot more costly than simply refinishing the space.]
Not to mention degree of excavation, amount of foundatino, etc. Hence YMMV, and “refinishing the space” is all you
Welcome Raschio
When in doubt, use a haiku
Better than cranking
Earth shivers lightly
Expectant pause, is this it?
Winter winds pass by
What happened to my post?
ex SF-er – I may be wrong but I think those pivoting doors might slide to the side and out of the way…seems like a lot of bang for the buck considering the amazing views and the high end touches.
I don’t think those slide to the side. They should, but they don’t
anybody know for sure?
I don’t know for sure either, but it doesn’t look like there is any track on the bottom to slide. I agree with you, from your earlier post, that this would have been better as one big sliding door unit.
I like this place quite a bit, even the doors. I’d have at least gone for symmetry and had two of them swing the other way, but hey.
The thing I find odd is that it seems you have to climb through the bedroom window to get to that upper deck. In this price range a door shouldn’t be too much to expect. Perhaps it’s just well camouflaged.
As I said in the 85 thread, the fact that this hasn’t leapt into contract even at this price doesn’t bode well for 85’s ask.
Also,
Yeah, but that’s a 20% haircut from ’06, not from “peak.” That’s gotta hurt. The timing was all wrong on this job, poor fellas.
I might like 85 even more, but at not that much more than half the space, it would need to drop a good bit to compete.
about a 20% decline, which would be right in the ballpark.
Based off a guy doubling the DBI 200K figure, and admittedly not knowing? Then creating a percentage to match his already held opinon? No.
OK, Schmartypantz, what do you think a fair assumption of money spent on the reno would be? $210K is the permit #, and we all know that’s quite a bit lower than the actual total. If doubling it were unrealistic, I think it might have been challenged more vigorously by more people earlier in the thread. Do you honestly think it’s that far off?
Of course, that number doesn’t even touch on the amount of personal professional expertise the owners sank into it, or the other professional fees such as a structural engineer for that steel beam and whatever other seismic work got done. What do you think a realistic number might be for all that? Suddenly 20% is looking conservative.
The fact that the roofing job is listed at 25k is an indication to me that the reported costs are probably pretty accurate. 25k seems about right actually. Just an observation.
“The fact that the roofing job is listed at 25k is an indication to me that the reported costs are probably pretty accurate.”
Yes and no. Someone like sparky-b could correct me on this, but aren’t permitting costs somewhat “standardized” by the department and not really based on reality with respect to specific materials and work being done? If you’re replacing a roof, there are far fewer variables (especially if you’re replacing with the exact same thing), far fewer unexpected factors to worry about, and the permitted cost is likely to be more accurate.
There are actually a lot of variables involved in roof replacement. What sort of material were used ? Is it just an overlay or a complete rip out and replace ? Was any remedial work done on the structural members supporting the roof ? Were gutters and downspouts replaced ?
… and then of course there’s “Was it a taxpayer funded green roof ?” 🙂
Still $25K seems on the high side for a roof replacement. I don’t know about flat roofs but a complete rip out and replace of an ordinary sized pitched composition shingle roof including gutters/downspouts goes for about $10K
And finally, it’s in contract. After 2.3 years! If they had listed this for 2.5 back then, they could have gotten it.
Instead, they had a bunch of friends come on SS and gush about it when it was listed at nearly a million over the market. You can spot the shills immediately: names no one has ever heard of gushing about how great it is. So they lost hundreds of thousands of dollars all because they couldn’t accept the market realities.
https://socketsite.com/archives/2008/09/big_swingingglass_doors_with_city_views_55_buena_vista.html
“Instead, they had a bunch of friends come on SS and gush about it when it was listed at nearly a million over the market.”
It was probably misguided to have your shills overuse the word “fly,” since one of the complaints with the swivel-doors is that there was no way to keep flies out:
“This house will fly off the market and command top dollar without a doubt.”
“At this price point , this will fly off the shelf imediately.” [sic]
Listed almost $1.3M lower, that’s just embarrassing, especially since this house needs $2.36M just to keep up with inflation.
I just happened to goggle today. We are ones that sold it in 1996 for $540,000, after spending about 200k on remodeling, after my inlaws died.
They had owned it since 1952 and bought for $17,000. They died 1989 and while we remodeled, the earthquake happened, high interest rates, and the price kept falling.
Seems like the same thing happened to the 2006 owners.
PS – we thought fixing would increase value and when it was first inherited we had offer of $695,000 and turned it down and it was as is and then we started to pour the money into it, as the values reduced.
For the early 90s housing bubble, 1989-1991 was a peak in values, and 1996 or so was roughly the trough. It sounds like you guys still did pretty well — thanks for sharing your story.
actually, we did not do well, as we spent many years of our lives and never can recover that.
The probate court appraised at at nearly 700k in 1989 and we had to pay inheritance tax on that. At that time, 600k was the max you could inherit without taxing.
and with the money spent on remodeling, and selling for 540k and commissions, we have a big IRS loss than can be taken off at 3k per year.
We kept the edwardian charm, beams, pocket doors, etc and seems to be all gone.
Sent pixs to relatives and all feel sad, but life moves on.
!~~~~
this might interest, the HUGE deck was there since about 1969, floor to ceiling glass windows with a sliding door to open, but no opening from kitchen. Under the deck, the now zebra area was finished on 3 sides and was going to be a family room that never happened. They did not have to do steel beams, and excavate unless new SF codes required that.
It was a 4 br house and the upper 2 were combined to make a master suite it seems.
You could only get a model T in the garage and we had to excavate the driveway and regrade to fit a car inside.
So most of the gut work was done, copper, circuit breakers, etc……………………the roof was copper and had 50 year guarantee, so not sure what happened there. I think it was put on about 1975.
oh there was a lovely brick fireplace between kitchen and dining and that seems to be gone and opened up. Lots of family gatherings in what was a stately old edwardian house.
We do not recognize it now.
No regrets that we missed out on the boom, but sorry we did not take the as is offer in 1989 of 695k and not spend so many years of our lives there. It was so hard on my husband, as that was the only house he lived in and yet we had to spend so much time there to remodel and clear it out.
Thank you for sharing your experience, it was very informative! Sorry to hear about the lost opportunity and tough times while you were living there.