As we first wrote about 3271 Baker when it hit the market six months ago (and was staged a bit differently):
While the stucco, tiles, wrought iron railings, doorways, beamed ceilings and wooden trim of both the overhauled façade and second floor of 3271 Baker Street are all true to the traditional Spanish/Mediterranean ethos of the house, the new first floor master suite is a bit more Ibiza (and the kitchen Italian).
And for the record, we’re not complaining (about either the suite, the island or Italy).
Asking $3,395,000 ($1,125 per square foot) in 2008, asking $2,595,000 ($860 per square foot) today. And yes, “two days” on the market (at least according to those MLS reports).
∙ Listing: 3271 Baker Street (4/2.5) – $2,595,000 [3271bakerstreet.com] [MLS]
∙ Spanish/Mediterranean Flair From Traditional To Modern: 3271 Baker [SocketSite]
Comparing a home like this at the new price to similar homes in a similar neighborhood in Chicago (Lincoln Park), I am beginning to think “real” San Francisco is becoming less expensive than “real” Chicago (Lincoln Park, Gold Coast, Lakeview).
How soon before the self-fulfilling prophecy of, “We have to buy now before prices go up any further”
turns into the self-fulfilling prophecy of,”Why don’t we wait a little longer and see if it goes down any more”
It’s good to remember that every positive (self-reinforcing) feedback loop goes in both directions. First it drives the system one way, then it meets a limitation, flips sign, and drives the system the other way.
wow. I really really like this place. The house is stunning. exterior is stunning and it has a very cute little back yard. the only negative i see are those horrific kitchen cabinets… I can’t wait until the lacquered euro-modern look goes away. Truly the white laminate of the 2000’s. but those are easily replaced, and they’re ugly, not offensive.
If it weren’t for macro events I’m sure this would have sold immediately, even though I realize that there’s a lot of fog over there, that’s a very nice neighborhood.
Palace of fine arts is one of my favorite buildings in the world.
====
anonLincolnPark: I’m don’t agree that Lincoln Park is a comparable neighborhood to the Marina. Both nabes are nice nabes, but much of Lincoln Park is much more dense than the Marina, so I’d expect it to have higher prices per square foot as example.
also, as you know Lincoln Park is a tale of different densities even within itself. near the water it’s all highrises (which don’t exist in the Marina), and inland to those it tends to be mansions or HUGE 2-3-4-5 plexes… and then further in are houses like this. (the 4k sq ft places)
Basically, depending on the Chicago Micro-market, you can get a 4k sq foot home in lincoln Park between 1.75M and $4M, depending on finishes, exact location, etc…
there really isn’t a good nabe comparison of Lincoln Park in SF… maybe nob hill or something? not even that though as the nob might be more dense than much of Lincoln park. (Lincoln park has about 20,000 people per square mile overall)
that said, I’ve noticed Chicago slowing considerably as well… lots of new luxury mansions and mega-duplexes just sitting there not selling.
so it’s difficult to compare anything these days due to the paucity of transactions IMO.
ok, as en ex Chicago resident who often compares life in Chicago to life in SF, even I am wondering why the heck are poster’s comparing this listing to a Chicago listing and not just comparing the new listing to the old and the subsequent drop in asking price.
“Palace of fine arts is one of my favorite buildings in the world.”
It’s also my favorite plywood/stucco palace in the world. It’s probably the only one anyway.
Redfin shows that 3271 Baker “sold” on November 25, 2008 for $2,550,000.
http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Francisco/3271-Baker-St-94123/home/1948371
(look under “Property History for 3271 Baker St”)
Does anyone know if this is just a bad data point, or if it points to a refi? Can anyone see the value of any loans on this place?
A slight aside, but how large is the market for this kind of property? There’s the cash buyers, but that can’t be too large of a market. The rest of the buyers would need an annual income of close to $750K to meet traditional income tests. How many high level bankers, lawyers, and C level execs are house shopping in SF? Even for the “average” $1.5M house, you’re talking an income of $500K.
I was wrong.
Lincoln Park’s density is about 21k/sq mile. Marina’s is almost 23k/sq mile. so they do have comparable density.
but the breakdown is far different. As I said above, Lincoln Park has very high density near the water (highrises) and very low density inland (mansions). whereas Marina district is more uniform throughout.
Lincoln Park is also 3x the size of Marina.
Even at approx. 25% off the original price, sellers will make a tidy profit here. Of course, that presumes that they do in fact become “sellers.”
Is it me or is the fireplace in a really weird place? How would u furnish around that?
I think we’ll see in the next several months how many well-heeled buyers there really are who are willing to jump into this market. And we’ll also see how many current owners are willing and able to just hold on without dropping the price. Redfin shows 128 SFRs and condos on the market now for $1.5 million or more, and who knows how many more were pulled recently for the holidays waiting to be relisted. Such sales used to be commonplace with districts 5-8 having SFR medians above this level. But it looks like recent monthly sales in this price range have been in the single digits city-wide leaving over a year’s worth of inventory. And over 50% of the listings in the “real SF” zip codes have had price reductions. The $1M-$1.5M range is only marginally better — i.e still terrible.
With such a significant sum required for a down payment in the new lending environment, and thus such a high sum put at substantial risk, and add in the difficulties in getting a loan this high, I think this market segment will prove to be the weakest. This is the opposite of what we saw in 2007 and pre-meltdown 2008.
A move-in ready SFR one door from the palace for $860 psf in that price range would not have lasted one day on the market any time after 2005.
Is it me or is the fireplace in a really weird place? How would u furnish around that?
I think of it more as a rec-room sort of area. (it has a different formal LR/DR, right?)
so I would put a pool table there. I would put 2 small chairs that swivel on the other side of the fireplace next to the french doors. you could also put a small bistro tabe there if you chose (I wouldn’t though)
that said, the picture above makes NO sense. they have a bed on one side of the room, and a sectional couch facing AWAY from the fireplace on the other? a great way to lay it out. if you’re blind and have no sensory perception.
awesome location, mediocre house compared to others in the same price range.
Maybe it’s the staging, but usually in $2mil+ homes there is something immediately grand or luxurious about them. This one just seems boring.
A classic example of over pricing a home and chasing a market down. This was way over priced originally…if the owner had listed it for the current asking price when initially brought to market, it probably would have received multiple offers and been long gone. Oh well…live and learn.
In the other thread about this property, Eddy mentions the next door neighbor is in the midst of construction. If this new pricepoint does not resonate, these folks should really consider pulling the property off the market until the construction is completed. The chances of someone wanting to put 500K down on a property next to a construction zone in this market are probably not good. Who knows what the backstory is, though. They do seem to have a lot of equity.
LMRiM writes:
> Redfin shows that 3271 Baker “sold” on November 25, 2008 for $2,550,000.
> Does anyone know if this is just a bad data point, or if it points to a refi?
> Can anyone see the value of any loans on this place?
My Title Co. Web site says that Burns, Michael J. Jr. bought the property on 11/20/08 from Tsou, Peter for $2,550,000. The Title Co. does not have any loan/lien information. Tsou paid $1.7mm for the property 11/18/06. It looks like Burns picked a bad time to flip a home in SF…
@ LRIM.
There was a change of ownership on 11/25/08 for $2.5M.
The previous sale was on 11/2006 for $1.7M.
Can’t find any loan docs.
Thanks.
They do seem to have a lot of equity.
Maybe not (see posts by tbonestk and PHR immediately above). Maybe my invitation to guess on when the foreclosure happens wasn’t so stupid after all? Tax records still show that the property is “tax defaulted”, and current portion of the bill (payable 11/1/08, and considered delinquent after 12/10/08) as still being outstanding, despite the change in ownership/sale noted by the posters above and Redfin.
Maybe, maybe not. Go ahead and take credit for a shot in the dark now that information you were completely unaware of has come to light, tho.
Go ahead and take credit for a shot in the dark now that information you were completely unaware of has come to light, tho.
LOL, fluj. The redfin “sale” and the tax default/stress data wer available in literally 10 seconds (including the 5 milliseconds that it takes for me to decide to check). And of course I was aware of all these data points before I ever posted a word.
The real question is why you – who has ready access to the sorts of tools used by PHR and tbonestk to show the change in ownership (the tax records and redfin data are of course available to anyone) – nevertheless posted that they seemed to have lots of equity, and went out of your way (FOUR posts!) to try to shoot down any speculation that there might be more than meets the eye with this listing. Hmmmm, I wonder why….
In order for the sale to close those taxes had to be paid. If indeed there was a close in November, those taxes are paid but not yet reflected in the city tax records, which does not surprise me. No bank is going to release funds while there is a tax liability.
Are you serious? See viewlover’s point. The quiet sale makes your initial “hey everybody let’s have some foreclosure fun” comment even more wrong. The tax board is notoriously tardy. This was pointed out to you previously. You think you’re onto something. But you’re not.
It was not I who posted this property three times. Socketsite did that, and didn’t mention the 2.5 sale. I don’t trouble myself to flesh out your misinformation hobby. Why would I? I knew you were wrong to be using the term “foreclosure” from the start. You have no idea what’s transpiring. None. It is not intellectually honest to use a specific term such as foreclosure.
I remember seeing this place listed on a foreclosure site as being delinquent in payments over a year ago, BEFORE they did the remodel. I live around the corner and have been in the place a few times during showings. The downstairs was completely redone, but the upstairs looks really shoddy, with new kitchen juxtaposed with old flooring and molding. Anyone who thinks this is worth >$800/square foot with the terrible layout, just because they put a nightclub-type ground floor room in, is nuts. Who’s the target buyer for this? It doesn’t work for a family, and it doesn’t really work for a well-to-do bachelor, either.
And btw, I don’t know what went down in the supposed November sale, but it’s interesting to note that the same cars have remained parked in the driveway since before that supposed sale. Plus, if it were a bonified sale, I’m pretty sure the agents would have had a huge “SOLD” sign slapped up on the front, which they most certainly did not.
Ok, fluj, whatever you say.
Sounds like the $2.5M (or $2.55M) sale was a true sale, and the new buyer decided that within 40 days of buying it he was going to cash in his profits, lol. Hey, it happens.
Overpriced house + cheapy remodel + bad market
= disaster
One more fact and then I’m done … the property last sold on 11/22/2006 at $1.7m for 1618 square feet of space, as per propertyshark.com (great site, btw). The “3000” sf number you’re seeing now is purely as a result of building out the garage space. I personally don’t consider that type of space to be true square footage when I think about ‘per square foot’ pricing.
In order for the sale to close those taxes had to be paid.
Trip or Publius can correct me here, but I don’t think that is the case. A quitclaim, for instance, or warranty sale that expressly disclaims any warranties for delinquent taxes and/or tax liens could reflect a change in ownership on the title docs. Express waiver by the purchaser would work too.
You’re probably right, viewlover, that no bank would lend to fund the purchase with outstanding delinquencies/liens, but I’m not even so comfortable thinking that anymore, given the massive amount of fraud/incompetence that has come to light with our banking system 🙂
There are a number of legal reasons why someone would transfer ownership in a non-true sale. Didn’t Madoff try to mail out some jewelry? 🙂
I wouldn’t start sniffing around in the Marina until PPSF is closer to $500.
I saw this when it first hit the market at $3.3 million… and it was incredibly disappointing. It’s really is (or was) a 2/1 with a sunroom being called BR #3 on the main level. Then the new lower level built out into a gigantic and awkward space better suited as a family/media room – especially with it’s access to the yard. When it re-hit the market with another Realty firm I didn’t put two and two together and showed up once again excited to see the “new” listing. And at $2.98 million it was still a 2BR home just with lots of ectra space.
So here we are on SS talking about a dramtically over priced listing as “proof” that prices have come down 24%.
As for taxes and tax records… I don’t understand it… Peter Tsou was the owner, then the 11/25/08 transfer to Burns for $2.55mm. HOWEVER, there is a “Correction Deed” on 12/9/08 with Burns the Seller and Tsao the Buyer and no price named. Also – one tax payment is late – due by 12/10 it shows it’s past due… not uncommon… not something I’d point to and assume someone is in distress. But the “correction deed” is something I’m dying of curiousity about.
“One more fact and then I’m done … the property last sold on 11/22/2006 at $1.7m for 1618 square feet of space, as per propertyshark.com (great site, btw). The “3000” sf number you’re seeing now is purely as a result of building out the garage space. I personally don’t consider that type of space to be true square footage when I think about ‘per square foot’ pricing. ”
Agreed. They did their best to “dwell-ify” it but this house just doesn’t have the street presence of something in this price range. It looks like a cute but modest single family home remodel in the decent part of the sunset which I’m guessing wouldn’t run more than the 800-900k right now. As nice as the area is, I don’t think it’s 1.8 million nice (give or take a 100k). The Marina is also landfill (bye-bye in the next big quake). I say it goes for about 2.1 million, assuming it sells at all.
due by 12/10 it shows it’s past due… not uncommon… not something I’d point to and assume someone is in distress.
sfrob, follow the trail a little further. Click on the “Print Bill” at the bottom of the assessor page, and you’ll see it is “Tax Defaulted”, which only happens when payments are delinquent as of June 30. If you click on the top of that page (where it says “Click here to view previous year’s tax payments”) you’ll see that nothing was paid last year either. Of course, the assessor’s office could just be late or incompetent. I mean, it’s not like this is their full time job or anything.
Very interesting information about the deed. I can’t really even speculate about that, except to point out that fluj’s “quiet sale” comment is obviously wrong (and he knew that already, and yet still wanted to much up the conversation – why??).
Ask anyone who works at a title office how up to date the city’s tax assessor office is. OK Sherlock Hopeless?
LMRiM – I stand corrected… I now see the late tax payments.
backi – your take on it is perfect – “nightclub-type ground floor….” and “Who’s the target buyer for this? It doesn’t work for a family, and it doesn’t really work for a well-to-do bachelor, either”
That said, my guess is this will sell for at least $2.2… and would have sold at it’s current asking price before Sept. A 10% “bailout” price drop from $2.6 brings it to $2.34… so that’s where I pinpoint today’s FMV. A max 10% price drop in 2009 brings it around $2.2. I completely disagree with predictions of massive drops in SF prices unless a major quake or dow 5000 hits us… in which case we’re all in trouble
what is a correction deed?
MY quiet sale comment?
No. I simply took someone else’s interpretation at face value. I called it a “quiet sale” because that’s what such a sale would have been. I did not introduce the information, Presidioheights Renter did.
From this new information I would guess that it was some sort of loan between two private parties, with the property as collateral. But who knows?
For the most part this thread is about you not liking being told you’re wrong, buddy. That’s all. Well, sorry, but your foreclosure invitation was still wrong on many levels.
Someone is going to read this and say, “Gee whiz. That Marina house is being foreclosed upon.”
You just don’t get it. You’re jamming it up. You continually post disinformation disguised as transparency.
Sometimes I get the idea that very few on SS know what the hell they’re talking about.
“Yes, this guys going bankrupt, propertyshark told me so. I mean, I think this is a sale in November, but maybe it’s a refinance, ummm, either way he’s desparate and SFR values are going to $300/SF, right?”
@ viewlover – a correction deed is a form that is usually used to correct some material defect of title in the prior deed (say, an incorrect “owner”, lol). Because it generally cannot be used to convey (or reconvey) a real property interest, the presence of a correction deed changing the title holder in effect says that there was no sale. (Legally, it says that any inference of sale was a “mistake” and that title never passed.) I have no idea why it was used here, and could only speculate.
@ fluj – Ask anyone who works at a title office One of my brothers is a pretty senior exec at a title company, and I had lunch with the CEO of his company (one of the larger ones in the country) over Thanksgiving. Does that count? The info I’ve gotten from him (in addition to legal questions that come my way from him and his associates) makes me very confident about the generalized level of fraud and incompetence in your profession.
The fraud and crookedness rampant within your profession is actually what’s front and center of the current news cycle, pal. I don’t give a rat’s patooty if you don’t believe what I tell you. Keep making a fool out of yourself. It’s all good.
Someone is going to read this and say, “Gee whiz. That Marina house is being foreclosed upon.”
I sincerely hope someone who is interested in the property uses the information to ask the agent and owner some tough questions. Perhaps it could help with price negotiations. In any event, it could help to identify potential problems before too much time is invested in the potential transaction (once the buyer and listing agent smell sale, the locomotive has left the station…).
Oh, you’re such the champion of the perspective buyer and consumer, you are. Why do you care dude? The best expression of your scorn for San Francisco real estate would surely be avoidance.
Seems like you have a stalker LMRIM.
No, Jorge. That would be you, appearing out of nowhere with random unrelated insults. You know? Like you did just now? LMRIM says things directly to me, and I respond in kind. But you know what? Just for you I will never talk to the guy again. OK?
@Fluj,
You claimed to have left the site as well, yet you expect me to believe this? LOL.
If someone was saying to wait for the (psf) price per square foot in the marina to drop to 500sqf then what should poeple expect the price per square foot to be in Soma. Are the condo prices such as the Infinity suppose to be approximately 500 per square foot. I don’t understand how the Infinity is going to release a whole building and expect to ask approximately 700 or moe per square foot without a view? Does anyone know what is going on with sales at the Infinity??
If someone was saying to wait for the (psf) price per square foot in the marina to drop to 500sqf then what should poeple expect the price per square foot to be in Soma. Are the condo prices such as the Infinity suppose to be approximately 500 per square foot. I don’t understand how the Infinity is going to release a whole building and expect to ask approximately 700 or moe per square foot without a view? Does anyone know what is going on with sales at the Infinity??
fluj was outed a few months (or years?) back… but can anyone decode the true identity of Satchel aka LMRIM?
The reclusive hedge fund millionaire who is stoically camped out in a $2800/mo Tiburon rental with laminate counters and white enamel appliances, waiting … watching …
It IS possible. Likely? Who knows…
Jimmy (Bitter Renter) fluj was outed? Who is he? Enquiring minds want to know…
Oh great. You know what? I post under the pseudonym for a reason. And the reason is that I can be candid without getting accused of attempting to solicit clients.
Well I’m not gonna tell who he really is because only old-skool Socketsiters know that.
Jorge,
LMriM under the Satchel moniker claimed to have left the site as well. But, sadly this site is like crack.
That it is, plan C-sparky (or is that sparky, sparky-the-bull, sparky-the-bear…) 🙂
It is lots of fun here, especially when fluj goes nuclear 🙂
I’ve always wondered if all this banter helps or hurts the property value; or does SS even matter? One clear thing is that none of our comments have any real impact on the broad market trends or economic realities.
I think this house at this price is still too high. 🙂
So one way to track down Mr. Satchel would be to find a directory of Yale Law alumni from the late 80’s / early 90’s, then see which of them live in Tiburon (or Marin Co.). I bet there’s less than 10.
From that, you could try and correlate their listed home residences with tax records to see if they’re renting or they own their residence. I’d be willing to bet that Satchel is the only renter among the lot.
So any other Yale alums want to take on the challenge?
oh, and fluj, care to give an update on your listing at 219 los palmos in miraloma park?
its an adorable little house and my new wife and I would really like something like that. We could actually use the extra space.
(For about $650k.)
Jake,
Just do some googling with the “site:” option on the more popular BA RE sites and you’ll figure it out soon enough.
C-Spark,
Crack dealing is a respectable profession. Why do we have to drag real estate into this discussion 🙂
If he said he was a Yalie, then he’s not. Real Yale alumni say they “went to school in New Haven.”
Fluj,
Have you noticed the early numbers on 2009 sales in the “Real SF”? I hear volume is down over 50% compared to this point in 2008. Granted, it is a short time period to compare, but the signs sure don’t look good for sellers.
In this case, the remodel cannot overcome the fact that this is a modest house, in a neighborhood that started out modest but has become expensive. For less money (2.1), one might do better buying the much grander 1765 Vallejo St, Ellis it, and restore it to a single family, (assuming one has the time and cash, and stomach to deal with the contractors.)
The owner of the property is an attorney. I put that, plus the tax defaulted status and the recent sale together, and I get a private mortgage.
Probably some rich guy’s relative borrowed the money for the purchase and build out and the relative took it back through his attorney.
First, they try to get what Mr. Flipper said he could get. Now they just want out for their costs.
Speculation, I know. Shoot me.
Jimmy (Bitter Renter)
Anonymous is really not that anonymous anymore. I am suprised no tech guys have spoken up yet.
Paul
Paul,
I may not agree with much of what Fluj says, but at least he doesn’t use the site to drive his personal business. All you’ve done in the last three weeks since your resurgence is show what a self serving fool you can be.
“or dow 5000 hits us”
Funny you should mention that. This year I think.
Jorge,
I disagree with you. I’ll let the posts speak for themselves, and the public can judge who the “fool” that keeps posting actually is.
Paul
Jimmy,
How about I tell you what I want to have for breakfast tomorrow morning instead? I want to have an egg and cheese bagel at the coffee shop but I only want to pay $.13 for it. That’s sort of like what you just said to me. And just about as relevant to the topic at hand.
Well, as an experiment, let’s just see how much Socketsite readers actually know about San Francisco Real Estate.
No one has mentioned the masterpiece that used to hang in the living room:
http://www.rincondaddy.com/images/3_white_coates_3217_baker_rebecca.jpg
Where does it hang now? http://www.rincondaddy.com/images/3_white_coates_3217_baker_3.JPG
Where did it used to hang?
The reward? hmmmmm. Any question you may have about South Beach, I will answer to the best of my knowledge (in private).
If the new owner is the same Michael J Burns Jr. as in these real estate saga’s, it makes for an even more interesting story.
http://pacific.bizjournals.com/pacific/stories/2000/11/13/story1.html
http://archives.starbulletin.com/2006/04/23/news/story03.html#jump
“If he said he was a Yalie, then he’s not. Real Yale alumni say they “went to school in New Haven.”
Hey, whadya know I guess I’m a Yale grad.
[proud graduate of the New Haven preschool near to the gun factory, across from the big road and next to the bush with the red berries that you are not allowed to eat]
@Small Hwang
“The reward? hmmmmm. Any question you may have about South Beach, I will answer to the best of my knowledge (in private).”
Wow. I’m sure the phones are off the hook in retardville…
Jorge,
Sorry your guess of “Retardville” is not correct.
Not sure why you choose to continue to address minorites in a deragatory manner. You won’t get too far in life pointing the finger at others and being pissed off all the time. Try to be happy dude, everything doesn’t suck.
Paul
Wow, the meltdown continues. And the drama. One trolling for business, the other continues with his breakdown…
I’m dying to see where all of this ends up.
My guess: 90 days from now this place will still be unsold. And the SS drama will continue.
Good comeback small hwang,
You got me 🙂
I’m very happy by the way, so no worries. San Francisco RE abstinence has saved me $250K so far. Word up holmes!
“How about I tell you what I want to have for breakfast tomorrow morning instead? I want to have an egg and cheese bagel at the coffee shop but I only want to pay $.13 for it.”
Wow, the great minds of our time are at it again. You rule Donald.
Gosh. Is every thread going to deteriorate into LMRiM vs Fluj, and Jorge vs Paul?
I have only one thing to say about the tax situation:
the govt can clearly be behind on their documentation, as can many private corporations.
but it seems less likely that they would be YEARS behind on their tax documentation. no?
I’m not sure about California, but when I get my property tax statement it tells me if I’m up to date or not, and how much I owe for the coming year. If I’m delinquent it says so in bold red script.
If I had paid up but the form said I was delinquent, I would go down to the office and personally make them change it ASAP.
The seller of this property owns a $2M+ home. I would assume he would do similar… no?
all assumptions, I know… but it makes more sense to me than to say that the govt is behind on it’s tax documentation for >1 year.
as for the foreclosure: I agree too many people pulled that out of their kiester. It is possible, but there is no evidence it is probable at this point.
===
as for the winter “quiet” sale: I have no idea about this house. However, the house across the street from me had a similar story. Divorcee owned the home, couldn’t keep up with the payments. She sold to a renovator (he did a great job, and did NOT just flip the place). He put on the market and it just sat for over a year. He took it off the market and put in renters. Then suddenly the renters were gone and new renters moved in. we talked to them because they weren’t shoveling their walk and they told us who their land lord was, a different man. We looked on the tax site, and there had been a quiet sale. The new owner was actually the Realtor for the old owner. The price was unbelieveable to any of us (the quiet sale was $150k more than the price it sat for all year). 6 months later it was foreclosed upon. The Realtor-owner didn’t pay a single mortgage payment or tax payment. but he did collect the rent.
I’m not saying this has ANYTHING to do with this marina property. Only that this type of story is replaying itself all around the country.
Gosh. Is every thread going to deteriorate into LMRiM vs Fluj, and Jorge vs Paul?
At least LMRiM, Fluj, and Paul add value. Jorge just posts little one or two liners taking pot shots at Paul or Fluj. Cute.
Yup.
LMRiM is in full “dancing on the graves of the fools mode.”
Fluj is in full “shout down any negativity mode”
Perhaps it’s time for our dear editor to take a hand.
All bickering aside,
If the current owner is the same Michael J Burns Jr. as in the hawaii story, is there a legal investigation going on?
I find his involvement the most troubling.
You said “shout down an negativity mode” followed by a childish fake quote.
What I actually said was more akin to, “stop posting misleading nonsense.”
It isn’t like you’re the most fair and balanced individual on here, Diemos. Mr. 50% Market Collapse. So save the fake quotes and fallacious summaries. You’ve got your prism and it’s far more slanted than mine is.
“childish fake quote.” I would call it a paraphrasing and summary of many previous exchanges, but fine, you’re right, it’s not a direct quote.
“It isn’t like you’re the most fair and balanced individual on here” Moi? Indeed. I give short shrift to views that are based on wishful thinking and a lack of understanding of the mechanics of how the economy works. Selah.
LMIM, thanks for the explanation of the corrected deed. I’m just catching up. Hope everyone has a better Tuesday. 🙂
“Indeed. I give short shrift to views that are based on wishful thinking and a lack of understanding of the mechanics of how the economy works. Selah”
Oh? Is that what we were talking about in this thread?
Come on.
“Illusions commend themselves to us because they save us pain and allow us to enjoy pleasure instead. We must therefore accept it without complaint when they sometimes collide with a bit of reality against which they are dashed to pieces.”
– Sigmund Freud
“Is that what we were talking about in this thread?”
Oh lordy. What was this thread about again? Ah, yes! What we can deduce about this property from the available information.
Ok, how about this for fair and balanced. We can deduce that:
This property did not get it’s wishing price of 1125/sqft and is now offered for 860/sqft.
The owners have not paid their property tax.
There was a recent non-arm’s length transaction for about what the current asking price is.
Without solid information about the amount of any outstanding loans against the property any discussion of foreclosure is highly speculative. If there are no loans there is no foreclosure.
Sure. Let’s examine the illusion utilized by those who have internalized a 50% future market collapse, and argue unremittingly from that stance. The pleasure from that stance is the shadenfreude we see here daily. The reality is that it still looks unlikely that the affordability they covet is within sight.
And again, what were we talking about here? Not that. At this point context goes out the window each and every time certain posters see my name.
“argue unremittingly”
Fear not fluj, the date of my remitting is already set, Jan 1 2012.
Uh is ANYONE paying attention???
The new owner of record as of December is a multiple convicted Felon, con man and embezzler.
H E L L O!!!
“Without solid information about the amount of any outstanding loans against the property any discussion of foreclosure is highly speculative. If there are no loans there is no foreclosure.”
Exactly.
Reality Check,
Do we know for certain it’s the same individual? There are probably 10 people in SF with that name. But yeah, if it’s that person it could indeed be a far more interesting backstory …
I know as recently as the past handful of months all furniture in the place was being sold on CList. Items were not what was being advertised but I was told “that is what my designer said they were”. I passed on all after going to that house to view it in person.
Also the person I met said that he had sold the house, and all the furniture was just put in for staging. This all took place between August and Fall early winter of last year from what I recall.
Paul you posted two pics.. the first was the Marina house obviously, plus I saw it in person. The person selling the items mentioned if they could not sell them they had a developer up towards Marin or Tiburon I believe that was looking to rent it all for staging… any chance the second pic is in that locale?
Sorry followed your link – ignore my last post Paul.
gowiththeflow,
I am impressed. Not Marin though. Painting used to be at Bix I believe. Not sure if any oldtimers out there.
Paul
The painting of the waiter at Bix was a single waiter 3/4 back view and he is polishing a glass (from my memory)… last time I was there it was still hanging over the piano… is that the painting you are referring to?
I love that painting also, same artist.
This was before that. 1997-1998.
Lately- every time I come to Socket Site someone is comparing Chicago to San Francisco.
Stop it!
The two can’t be compared easily (as many of you have pointed out.)
But one thing both have in common is that prices are not coming down much (yet) in the “prime” areas (that being Pac Heights, Marina, Noe Valley compared with Lincoln Park, Lakeview and the Gold Coast in Chicago.)
Prices are softening considerably in Chicago’s prime neighborhoods now. Sales are way down for all three of those neighborhoods and there is a glut of new construction “mansion” homes sitting on the market.
2009 should be interesting in both cities. Buyers in Chicago are almost demanding that they pay less than the current buyer paid (if they bought in the last 5 years.) There’s a stand-off between buyers and sellers (for now.)
The painting I described was hanging at Bix the first time I went there sometime in 1995- the year I moved to this fair city… where in the restaurant was this 3 waiter painting hanging?
Also sick of the endless Chicago comparisons. It’s as though people see the cities as easily interchangeable, or that moving your job and your life is a trivial matter
But for the fun of it, here’s a real fact:
The forecast calls for a high of -1 in Chicago tomorrow, with a low of -10.
The forecast calls for a high of high of 69 in San Francisco tomorrow, and a low of 46.
This place just dropped another 5%. The forecast in SF calls for rapidly dropping prices.
Down 27%+ from its original listing price back in summer 2008. Here are some choice quotes from Prime, a realtor “in the trenches”, back when it was asking $3.4M. Brah.
“Great location, great house, great profits. You’ll find out the profits as soon as you find out when and how much this was bought for. Amazing.”
“This house should sell for at least $2.8 million.”
“This is why you always have to buy in the best areas like D7. You spend $250-300/sqft building, and you sell for $1,000-1,200sqft. I remember just 2 years ago, 1 story Marina bungalow homes were selling for under $2million. Price strength and profits are incredible.”
That last one is the funniest. Looks like we won’t have to wait too long for Marina bungalow homes to be back below $2M.
3271 Baker is down another 3%, now asking $2,398,000, or about 29% below its summer 2008 asking price.
http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Francisco/3271-Baker-St-94123/home/1948371
Last time I checked, primo California is still primo
Wow. A $1M price cut. That truly is “amazing.”
Well, the one exception in D7 may be the Wurster on Broadway which (if it closes – and that’s a big if) will sell for almost 40% more than its 03 sale price.
Pretty sure Prime wasn’t a realtor. He was just an uberbull who liked to do what’s currently the coin of the realm on here, except with the opposite language.
3271 Baker is now down to $2,275,000, 33% below its initial wishing price last summer:
http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Francisco/3271-Baker-St-94123/home/1948371
Amazing!!
3271 Baker: Prepare to be more amazed at 2.195. $728 psft.
3271 Baker: Dropped again $2.125
Now for rent, asking $12,500
Gorgeous, deluxe renovation, 4 BR/2.5 Ba home across the street from the Palace of Fine Arts!! 3000 Sq. Ft. Sunny Garden, 2 Car Parking, Garage, Gourmet Kitchen, walk-in closets. Newly Renovated, top of the line.
Go to: http://www.3271bakerstreet.com for details and pics!!! 6-12 month lease ok! Monthly rental possible.
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/apa/1104355250.html
Available immediately. $12,500 month.
Call 415-812-8695 and pls. leave msg. if no answer.
Wow. I thought 3271 Baker was already sold (shows contingent on redfin)? $12,500/mo sounds like a laughable wishing rent to me 😉
I’d love to hear from anyone who called the number and asked what the situation is.
3271, BOM. $2.125.
I wonder how the $12.5K/mo wishing rent “Plan B” is coming along?
Just a piece of (unsolicited) advice for the fliptard/specuvestor crowd out there: if you can’t get your price, cut it quickly over and over until it sells. This market isn’t coming back for years and years, and you’ll be bleeding cash all over your finances in the meantime if you try the renting route. First, in drips, and then ultimately in spurts, the end result for your finances will be the same: death, and then money heaven.
Wishing rent not so good. Time for a new wish:
$10,750 — http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/apa/1111964410.html
The market for this place is at 8k right about now. Maybe 7500.
There are two nice SFH in PH / CH that have not rented for over a month in this range.
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/apa/1104517457.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/apa/1109591720.html
Not as modern but bigger and classic. And I’d say they are about 10-15% over market. Just about everything is priced 10-15% over market right now; everything is taking longer to rent. Owners willing to entertain offers for sure.
Just a word of advice for people thinking of renting any SFR, particularly an expensive one: check the tax records to at least make sure the prospective landlord is paying his property taxes.
http://www.sfgov.org/site/treasurer_index.asp?id=4615
If he’s not paying his taxes, what else isn’t he paying? Checking NODs is not enough these days with respect to mortgages because many lenders are delaying filing NODs (either because they are inundated, they hold out hope that they can pass the loan off to the taxpayer, trying to “work it out” with the borrower, etc.). What about funds for maintenance issues that might come up?
In this environment, I’d think long and hard about renting from anyone who might appear to be in trouble, and if I wanted to go ahead it would only be because I got a pretty large rent discount from whatever I thought “market” would otherwise be.
I’d also be concerned about a security deposit. Who knows what is going to happen with an overextended borrower/landlord, and imo there is no compelling reason to get your good cash caught up in their folly, especially when prop 13 ensures there are numerous long-term owners who pay nothing in property tax and who are therefore unlikely to experience any “ownership stress”.
3271 Baker: still for rent: now down to $8950.
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/apa/1224613260.html
Now 3271 Baker is rent to own for a mere $9750.
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/apa/1243902330.html
From the cl ad: “Lease to own price $2.3M 12 month term, longer term possible.”
$2.3M? Didn’t the house fail to sell outright for $2.125M back in April? Good luck trying to find a solvent renter dumb enough to fall for this!
After a year of trying to sell 3271 Baker, multiple reductions, wishing rents, etc. – it looks like these turkeys are determined to make every mistake in the book. I’m sure they’ll ride this market straight down to the bottom.
Mr. Hwang brought up a link regarding Michael Burns, showed that he was helped by attorney Tom Foley which might be true except that Mr. Foley wasn’t pardoned by Governor Cayetano until mid 2000 for the good work that he was doing, work that he appeared to be doing at least partially, with Burns.
Burns and Foley met in prison and appear to have been furloughed under similar circumstances.
One of the directors was also very well connected to a gentleman named Gary Baldwin, who besides being very influential including being Inouye’s confidant, was picked up in mid 2002, for an outstanding warrant for his arrest.