It wasn’t the listing for 1170 Sacramento #PHB that caught our eye (okay, so perhaps a little), but rather the note from a plugged-in reader: “This unit features custom cabinet work from the mid ’60s by architect Albert Lanier, husband of artist Ruth Azawa. Original condition, staged.”
Sometimes it’s the small things (unlike the monthly HOAs).
UPDATE: A few additonal details from a plugged-in reader worth noting: “(1) this unit is 1999 sq. ft. plus a maid’s room and bath on the building mezzanine, with independent exterior access; (2) there are two large tandem parking spaces in underground garage, plus basement storage; (3) I believe there are four units per floor, with two passenger elevator banks, two freight elevators, and no corridors; (4) there are 2 doormen, 24/7, which translates into 6 full-time equivalents. High service; high security; (5) I believe but am not positive, that all HOAs in the building are equivalent. The building always has had the reputation for the highest HOAs in the city.”
∙ Listing: 1170 Sacramento Penthouse B (3/2) – $4,900,000 [MLS] [nobhillpenthouse.com]
$4,700 a month in HOA should “keep out the riffraff”.
Am I the only one that enjoys looking at properties that have not been completely gutted to show the latest look? So what if the bar tile is 25 years old, it is nice to see a unit that looks like somebody lived and enjoyed the space instead of thinking it only as a flip. This feels a lot more like a Penthouse then what are called penthouses in certain SOMA towers.
That living room is AWESOME.
warning: nobhillpenthouse.com includes cheesey classical music.
justin — i agree, re: staging v. original condition. that’s why i can’t get on board with all the hate spewed at 2245 9th.
Kitchen needs work – other than that this place is fantastic, but $5000 in HOA is crazy.
HOA due are NOT monthly for sure; either quarterly (still steep) or annual (more reasonable)
[Editor’s Note: Nope, monthly. And if you have to ask…]
I would like to shake the hand of anyone who purchases that place for $2,700 psf (assuming 1800 sf). It’s beautiful, but you can buy 10 – 12 blocks away for $800 psf in new/rehab buildings. Are there comps to support that? Would it even appraise?
I want to go ballroom dancing in that living room.
I’d love to find out exactly what they’re doing with the $5k/month HOA though.
that hoa is a little over the top. i guess it comes with breakfast in the mornings in the lobby, and maid service weekly. okay maybe not but at that price one would guess…
Out of curiosity I’m wondering what the HOA does with those dues. A conservative estimate based on :
– PHB is half of the 18th floor (there must be at least a PHA, right ?)
– the other 17 floors pay dues roughly according to their square footage compared to PHB
That would mean that total dues collection on this building is 36 X the PHB dues or $169K per month (or 2 million a year!)
I’m guessing a large chunk of that could be consumed by earthquake insurance, but still $2M annual dues is a lot of cash and surely insurance can’t account for all of the liabilities that the HOA pays.
So where does the money go ? Does anyone have a guess as to the breakdown ? Are dues being used to build an emergency reserve ? Or are older tenants paying smaller dues, shifting the burden to new buyers ?
This is one of the more prestigious bldgs in Nob Hill with only two units per floor. However, I would be surprised if some of the, um, long time residents pay anything close to $4700 per month in HOAs. I suspect the high dues for this unit are used to compensate. I have no proof of this, of course.. I just know a few people that live here and I seriously doubt they fork over almost 5 grand a month.
You have to figure a building that old has a LOT of forcasted upkeep. they will typically plan 30 years out for what repairs they have to make and assume HOA off of that. A while back a realtor had this break down on 1750 Taylor, and the expenses were over 1MM a year in just upkeep, security etc. Thats the most comparible building I can think of. Although I know 999 Green Street has super low HOA’s (in comparison) just from what I have been seeing on MLS as of late. (400-800/month.) So 1170 Sacramento must run on a rolling HOA program whereas new owners take the brunt of adjusted fees, and “grandfather’d” in owners (maybe the one selling) pay much less. Only guesses.
Other residents don’t pay as much? Who’s with me in my crusade to repeal HOA-control?
– this unit is 1999 sq. ft. plus a maid’s room and bath on the building mezzanine, with independent exterior access.
– there are two large tandem parking spaces in underground garage, plus basement storage
-I believe there are four units per floor, with two passenger elevator banks, two freight elevators, and no corridors
-there are 2 doormen, 24/7, which translates into 6 full-time equivalents. High service; high security
-I believe but am not positive, that all HOAs in the building are equivalent. The building always has had the reputation for the highest HOAs in the city
I’ve also seen a number of very high end buildings in which a management company who will do *anything* for the tenants takes over and is very hard to displace.
For example, you call when you are coming in for your 5 week per year SF stay, and they take your oriental rugs out and have them cleaned, spotlessly clean out your condo, touch up the paint from when you last were there (not a chip anywhere) and fill the fridge from the list you left when you last arrived last year. Now they charge you individually for those services as well, but they also charge a fortune just for hanging around to be on your beck and call. You are paying for a manager who will check everything when it is done and raise hell with the help if it isn’t done perfectly. That manager does not earn minimum wage, so you pay for professional supervision. He is also inspecting the grounds, the elevator, checking for burned out bulbs daily, etc. It costs a lot to have someone do it right. And by the way, elevators are not cheap to service.
The problem is that, once these kinds of management companies get in, it’s essentially impossible to send them out because, inevitably, the trust fund kids who can’t tie their own shoelaces will *not* do without them, and all they have to do is to ask the trustee for more money when the rates go up, so they don’t care, and so you are stuck.
I’m not saying that is the case here, but it has popped up at a few condos I’ve looked at, and um, no thanks. I’ll tie my own damn shoelaces and put up with paint chips here and there.
It’s quite impressive when you notice how good of a job they do, but I’ll just deal.
HOA fees in (particluarly marquee) buildings differ depending on unit location, size etc. Little Timmy living in a studio on floor 3 pays X and Big Jim in the PH pays XX dollars….
Do HOA dues pay for taxes too or is that a separate bill? $5K a month seems steep for HOA fees. Who decides what is needed anyhow? Is there a tenant board?
Has nobody here ever belonged to a country club or yacht club? Second homeowners in the Rancho Mirage-Palm Desert-Indian Wells area can own condos with HOA well above 6k a month that are not even on a golf course. Buying in this building is like joining a club. Just check out the lobby of this building alone, it is really more like a luxury hotel, and there seems to always be a garage attendent as well as two doormen. This is a building filled with people who own more than one home that usually buy them all with cash. This is the difference between “luxury” units in a tower like this vs. some of the “luxury” units in the new towers that don’t even have vents for clothes dryers.
I’m sorry but I thought this was more about real estate, design and related issues..What’s with the commentary about being so offended and outraged by someone elses HOA dues?
If the owner agrees to pay the HOA as quoted, what is it our business as to the cost? I suspect that’s the real price of choosing to live in a high end expensive penthouse.
You all sound like a bunch of nosy, busy bodies.
If the owner agrees to pay the HOA as quoted, what is it our business as to the cost?…
You all sound like a bunch of nosy, busy bodies.
Is it possible to be nosy about a nonexistent person? There is no “owner” since it is for sale. Since they publicly post what the HOA fees are, we are discussing them…this is a real estate blog after all.
you know what I mean..
“What’s with the commentary about being so offended and outraged by someone elses HOA dues?”
I can’t comment about the offence or outrage, but HOA dues are a big component of home ownership cost.
Isn’t discussion of total home ownership cost a very relevant topic on a RE blog ? Other big costs other than the purchase price discussed here are : taxes, commute costs, mortgage costs, insurance, remodel costs, marketing costs, etc.
All of that seems relevant, especially HOA fees when they are as high as this.
majr – the HOA itself is an owner’s organization and each member gets to vote on what is needed. I’ve never heard of HOA fees including taxes though they do often include insurance.
Best explanations that I’ve heard here regarding why this unit’s fees are so high are : new members pay higher fees (a la prop 13 – new buyers subsidizing the old) and a gold plated management company providing high end service for a very high price. Probably a combination of both.
I do hope that part of the fees go towards a capital expenditure fund. It would really be a drag to be hit with a $200K special assessment on top of that nearly $5k monthly.
I just realized that HOAs for big buildings like this also have another source of income aside from dues : leasing fees from antennae placed on the top of the building.
Can anyone who’s a member of a high rise building HOA comment on how much income the building receives from antenna space leases ?
Everyone chill about these HOA’s please.
1170 has four units per floor (except in the rare case where two have been combined) and the HOA’s are about $2400 per month for each unit. Additionally this unit has a lower-floor maids room and two parking spaces, so as a half-floor, the $4700 makes sense.
If you’re shocked at how much the HOA’s are, you’ve been living under a rock. Sadly, 1170 does not permit public open houses.
Living in a fine building is very much like attending a top country club. These fees are only a little over $50k a year which isn’t much for all the services and the quality living. It costs about the same to keep a horse at the Circus Club, for example. Compared to that overly frosted cake at 2601 Lyon this unit is a steal. My bet would be close to but probably just under four million for the selling price. Since there are no public open houses it is a real treat to read about this and see those views.
“Sadly, 1170 does not permit public open houses.”
I think that alone makes this building worth its high cost. Imagine realtors actually having to get serious with “buyers” and explain that to view this property they REALLY do have to be qualified.
How can anyone compare huge units like these in a prime location to other so-called luxury towers? This building was not built to be affordable. This is not in the Mission next to a bus station, or next to a freeway ramp, but Nob Hill, next to some of the greatest shops, hotels, private clubs and restaurants in the world. 2 deeded parking spaces, a maids unit, valet parking,
This building IMO is up there with 2500 Steiner, 2006 Washington , and perhaps two buidlings on Russian Hill and one in Presidio Heights.
I don’t think “G” would be welcome here.
Unit 7C at 1170 Sacramento is also for sale at $3.35M. Listing shows HOA fees of “only” $2,388 and square footage of 2,052. The floor plan for Penthouse B (at nobhillpenthouse.com) seems to suggest that there are 4 penthouses and that PHB’s interior square footage may actually be less than the lower units because of the decks (excluding maid quarters on lower level). Looking at sales from previous years, the HOA fees have always been high. I would think that the fees each year are determined by allocating the budget on the basis of square footage, etc – I wouldn’t think that there is Prop 13-type grandfathering.
Very odd floor plan. HUGE space and three bedrooms, but other than a master bath, only a 3/4 bath for two bedrooms and the public rooms? And you have to walk practically across 1/3 the length of the building to reach the one bath.
Fortunately, there are no closets in any of the “Bedrooms”, so you won’t really need a bath for the people sleeping there, because with no closets, it cuts down on the people sleeping over.
The whole thing is just really strange. Very nice views, but strange layout.
Unless “G” bought 2 PH(s) and connected them together – LOL…
G could always buy PH A and PH B and call it PH G… And his HOA would only be just a hair under 10k a month!
Regarding the floor plan, the existing build-out was done for a couple whose children were grown and out of the nest. The master bedroom has a full wall of built-in closets and drawers as does the passage into the master bath. The middle size bedroom was the husband’s office and build-out is according. (It is staged with a bed as well as the wall of cabinets. It was never used as a bedroom by the couple). The smallest bedroom/office was the art studio of the wife, hence the sink in what would have originally been the closet. It had additional built-ins which have been removed along the demising wall between that room and the kitchen, which have been removed for staging.
Like many mid-century modern designs, taking a clue from Frank Lloyd Wright, Le Corbusier, William Wurster, Joe Esherick, etc., the bedrooms and baths are purposefully de-emphasized and the maximum amount of space thrown into the communal living/cooking/dining area. The social goals thereof are well documented in writings of the time. It is of course exactly the opposite of what is commonly done today where there is a postage stamp size living room and enormous bedrooms that are essentially private living spaces as well as sleeping spaces, and two bathrooms per resident!
Well, this is a great unit… our firm did the staging. It does need some updating… but that view and the wrap around balcony are spectacular! Although, makes me think of Jimmy Stewart ala Vertigo. Don’t look down!
The list price for 1170 Sacramento Street #PHB has been reduced $450,000. Now asking $4,450,000.
The list price for 1170 Sacramento Street #PHB has once again been reduced, this time by $550,000. Now asking $3,900,000.
The sale of 1170 Sacramento Street #PHB closed escrow on 2/6/09 with a reported contract price of $3,125,000 (36% under asking).
I don’t know whether that $3.125M price is high or low, but I do like the sound of 36% off list.
I remember well last year how many posters on SS mocked the idea of lowballing a property (“just try attaching a Case Shiller graph to your 20% off lowball offers you b’errors and see how far you get”, lol).
The killing on this was the insanely high HOA fees. That warranted a steep decline in the purchase price.
I’ve seen the same thing with co-ops.
Large HOA fees = low purchase price.
1170 Sacramento #17B closed escrow today after eight days on the market. List 2.195M, sale 2.4M. It needs updating throughout.