From a plugged-in reader:
A few weeks back I received my 30 day notice to close escrow on my unit at Arterra. I believe I will be one of the first people to close in late July. More important in a week or so I will do going through my unit “walk through”. Can you or anyone provide advice on what to look for and how to handle this process? As a first time home buyer I am not really sure what to expect and any information would be very helpful.
We’ll suggest reading the comments on this thread: Walkthroughs At Infinity: A Chance To Share Your Impressions. We’ll invite others to add their two cents (especially those who have recently done the same). And we’ll look forward those housewarming(s).
∙ Walkthroughs At Infinity: A Chance To Share Your Impressions [SocketSite]
∙ Arterra (300 Berry) Sheds A Little More (In More Ways Than One) [SocketSite]
does arterra have air conditioning in the building? I wonder why they have not had a lot of sales or rentals listing there.
@ cooper,
No, I don’t believe that there’s any AC at Arterra. I’m not sure why you would expect sales or rental listings yet, the building isn’t complete — so no one can close escrow and no one can live there yet.
bring a notebook, painters blue tape and a digital camera.
Make a note, take a photo and put blue tape up where you request a fix.
If you can bring a contractor with you, so you will know how to aptly describe what is wrong.
Bring your inspector if possible. Try all the toilets, fixtures, appliances, windows, etc… Inspect walls, trims and flooring. Make lots of notes and take pictures of defects. And as mentioned, blue tape every issue you find.
If escorted by someone from the sales office or developer, let them deliver their spiel, but do not allow them to distract you from your own inspection. You should be allowed enough time to adequately inspect the unit that you have bought at your own pace and agenda.
Do not do your inspection alone. Take a qualified contractor or inspector with you. This gives you another pair of eyes of someone who will be objective. Listen to them and take good notes. It is worth any amount of money you may need to pay. The person I am describing is not your realtor, or a friend, or someone from the sales office.
Agreed with Milkshake’s advice – don’t let anyone hurry or distract you from evaluating whether the sales office has delivered the home that you were promised. Also, don’t be afraid to point out what may seem like minor issues – this is your home and you should have it delievered to you in pristine shape. Even if the ‘walkthrouhg company’ say “we can’t do anything about it”, insist that they make note of the defect. If you don’t make a note of something, it’s harder to claim that there was something wrong later on. When push comes to shove, they will most likely repair it, particularly given the current R.E. market.
I did my walk through with the Hayes a month ago and there were problems. Now you can benefit from my oversights.
Make sure the front door locks properly
Check the hot/cold on all sinks and shower
No dents in the appliances
Check the floor coverings for damage or ugly seams in the carpet where they have cheaply pieced it together.
Check the doors and drawers on all cabinets
Run the washer/dryer
Finally, look at the paint and baseboards
Do not do your inspection alone. Take a qualified contractor or inspector with you. This gives you another pair of eyes of someone who will be objective. Listen to them and take good notes. It is worth any amount of money you may need to pay. The person I am describing is not your realtor, or a friend, or someone from the sales office.
Having done numerous walkthroughs of new condos this is probably NOT necessary. Check everything carefully, make sure it works, etc. An inspector is required for a home inspection, but they will not be able to check the major items (plumbing, electrical, roof, foundation, etc) so they are, IMHO, overkill (and those items are the HOA’s responsibility anyway). Also, most (all?) new condos in CA come with a 1 year warranty (and 10 years for major problems).
I performed a walk-thru about a year ago on a condo. At one month, they may still be in the process of finishing the final touches but you can still make a note of issues you find. Here is a general list. My agent accompanied me for the one month walk-through and I had an inspector perform an another trip later which I paid for.
Check finishes, cabinet and door closure, floor finishes, heater operation, appliance installation and operation, hot water operation, toilet operation, shower and sinks finishes and operations including grouting and tile work, window operation and installation, lighting operation, sprinkler installation and caulking, carpet installation, electrical outlets working, baseboard and molding installation.
Ok – i’m prepared to be attacked for writing this – but here goes:
One of the reasons I personally add value as a Realtor, is this very walk through. Every walk through of a new construction building that my biz partner and I have attended has been eventful. Having a professional with you to help you look for certain defects, oversights, issues, etc- it’s not to be underestimated.
The last 2 walk throughs – one @ Park Terrace and one at 888 7th St resulted in major findings and ultimately concessions from the developer to our clients. I’m confident that without our presence, most of these findings go unnoticed.
Don’t get me wrong – i know as a Realtor i’m the cause of most of the worlds’ problems and of course i’m over paid –
Be certain to ask about fire alarms / smoke alarm issues. In several new construction projects we’ve noticed major problems – as in they are EXTREMELY sensitive and are going off constantly.
We got an interesting note from Arterra the other day stating that ‘they are aware’ people are still shopping around for mortgages and that they should already be locked with an approved lender. I believe it also reminded us that many types of mortgages are no longer being offered.
Also peculiar was an attached pink sheet warning that getting an extended rate lock was strongly recommended; made me wonder if they are behind schedule. If they are, we would have to pay more for another rate lock. This would definitely not be cool and I wonder if this would be negotiable . . . they probably already thought about that in the contract though.
As to
“Having done numerous walkthroughs of new condos this is probably NOT necessary. Check everything carefully, make sure it works, etc. An inspector is required for a home inspection, but they will not be able to check the major items (plumbing, electrical, roof, foundation, etc) so they are, IMHO, overkill (and those items are the HOA’s responsibility anyway). Also, most (all?) new condos in CA come with a 1 year warranty (and 10 years for major problems).”
You as the buyer are the HOA. In addition to the items discussed above regarding the interior improvements, you are also purchasing your share of the common area items. Ideally these items (foundation, roof, elevators, utilities, lobby and other common area items) were completed and approved by the SF Building Dept. But, that final inspection sometimes is imperfect.
Having represented buyers for over 30 years and been active in 3 HOA’s, the most expensive repair items are usually the common areas. I would definitely ask my inspector to include the common areas. You may think you can defer these items to the HOA, but at this moment in time, the developer’s highest interest is to see that the sales close and that there are not unsatisfied buyers. Six months after the units are sold, the developer will be gone and you and the rest of your neighbors will be scrambling to get the developer to make any repairs.
Frederick
Some recommendations for inspectors with experience in New Construction would be great in this thread.
Coach A wrote:
Don’t get me wrong – i know as a Realtor i’m the cause of most of the worlds’ problems and of course i’m over paid –
While Coach A does not spell very well, he is wrong. Realtors are NOT the cause of the world’s problems, even though most people in the USA, England, and France would agree with him. I used to think so, too, until we found an honest, intelligent, competent realtor who was even willing to sacrifice her own interests for ours. She has worked tirelessly on a difficult project. We have tried to repay her by a number of referrals of our friends, which has helped some. But we will always be grateful to her, and it has changed our view of her profession. Our previous realtor double crossed us on a property when he found someone else who was willing to make a higher offer.
If you can find a good realtor, they are worth every penny.
Ditto the comments on the common area stuff. Often the developer plays a heavy-handed role in the first months of the HOA’s existence (after all, they own most of the units) and it often takes time for an effective resident-managed board to take shape. Once the units have all been sold and the developer is gone, it will be harder to get stuff fixed, especially common area stuff that tends to fall through the cracks.
If you’re doing the inspection yourself (without an inspector) – go to a hardware store and buy an outlet tester (shouldn’t be more than $8-10) and plug it into every single electrical outlet in the place, it will light up to show you if it’s wired correctly or not. It’s not enough to test that the sockets all work; wiring errors are pretty common and a socket may “work” but the polarity may be reversed or the ground not connected or something. This could cause problems later.
Blue painters tape and a digital camera are a must. Sometimes it helps to write a number on each piece of tape before you stick it up, and then make a list (by number) of each problem, so the developer can refer back to the list if the problem isn’t obvious just by looking at it.
I’ve never heard of individuals doing inspections on the common areas. So you’re saying that individual buyers should be checking the garages, roof, elevators, etc? That sounds nuts and I seriously doubt 1) they would even let you do that and 2) you’d be able to find any individual qualified to do that kind of inspection on a modern highrise. (It would require an entire team of inspectors, and the cost would be prohibitive for an individual).
I agree with what most others have said. For me, my agent was extremely helpful during my walk through; she pointed out things I missed and kept on the developer to get them fixed.
Again, make sure all the appliances are installed (my refrigerator was not) and running correctly, there’s no imperfections in the flooring/carpet, the faucets and toilets work properly, the lights and light switches work properly (no sticking), the windows open and close, the door opens, closes, and locks, and the heating units work. Check the vent above the microwave.
Make sure there’s no “soft spots” in the flooring that could be a problem later on.
Make sure any customizations you paid for are present and correct (closets, window treatments, etc.).
Make sure when you’re done that the washing machine and dishwasher are drained and everything is turned off.
Being one of the first to move in, I would also try to find out what other units near you have been sold and what units near you are still under construction, so you can get a feel for the noise level.
If you do find any large issue, don’t let the developer push you into closing before it’s taken care of to your satisfaction. They may tell you they’re going to charge you a certain amount per day that you delay closing, but if it’s an issue they need to see to, then it’s their fault, and they can’t charge you for that.
If you purchased any upgrades (floors, closet systems, appliances), be sure to check whether the responsibility for fixing the problems lies with the developer or the design center that installed them. (If you have a separate contract with the design center, you may need to have the center fix the problems & you may not be able to delay the close of escrow with the developer “for cause” as Gimar suggests).
As a priority, I care much less about cosmetic imperfections that the bigger issues that would impede your ability to live in a unit. A scratch on a cabinet is not as important than leaky piping that will damage your neighbor below. The most costly problem is water intrusion issues. Leaky sinks, toilets, refrigerator lines, and leaky exterior windows and doors. Do forget to stick you head OUTSIDE your unit. When the first storm comes, it is then you know how well the unit will hold up.
Make a copy of punch to keep for your own record. Bring carbon paper if you have to if a copy machine is not nearby.
I recently moved into a new condo in SOMA…..I performed my walk through with a representative of the developer. She was about as good as it gets. I spent about 3 hours doing my walk through. she was a lot more picky than I was—especially when it came to minor paint defects.
I did learn a lot in this walk through, and some of which I will say has already been mentioned.
1. check the locks on ALL doors with locks.
2. operate all appliances
3. check the underside of your cabinet doors….these are prone to scratches from being placed and drug on the floor.
4. check the seams at the flooring
5. check the tile work—there should be NO imperfections in the grout.
6. check the operation of the windows and the rubber seal….make sure it is firmly affixed.
7. depending on your location at the arterra, make sure you cannot hear those idling trains when the windows are closed.
8. also, make sure when the windows are shut that you can’t smell their diesel fumes.
9. check the quality of the cabinetry….make sure, if it is laminate, that the laminate is secure and not lifting up.
10. open the refrigerator door, make sure it doesn’t hit or rub anything.
11. flush the toilet, mine needed replacing.
12. check the drain in the bathtub…..mine for some reason was always shut—-and needed to be replaced.
***don’t be afraid to be a perfectionist. you paid really good money for these units. no one would take home a new bentley from the dealership with scratches and dents.
***don’t be afraid to get on your hands and knees. put your head next to the floor and walls.
one of my walls was severely slanted….the framer must have been drunk!
also i had some stains on my floor that were only apparent in certain views and certain lighting….so don’t be afraid to take your time and check out the same stuff in different views and lighting.
that’s my two cents.
Good Luck!
In addition to the huge magnitude of inspecting all of the common areas, there’s also an enormous duplication of effort. It is incredibly inefficient for the hundreds of new residents to hire inspectors for inspect all of the common areas. That level of inefficiency would put even the most corrupt government entity to shame. Does the swimming pool really need 500 independent inspections ? And if a flaw is found, is it reasonable that it can be fixed prior to COE ?
It is reasonable that new residents should be assured that the common areas are constructed properly. But there has to be a better way than each resident doing their own independent inspection. Perhaps just require all new residents to throw $20 into a fund to hire one big common super-inspection ?
Thank you for the great input and suggestions. However I have to ask about a few things. My letter stated the following things.
1) I am only able to bring my realtor and no one else to the walk through.
2) The walk through will be 30min and no longer.
This is what is stated in the letter. I don’t see how I will be able to get everything completed in 30min if I should be running the washer/dryer and dishwasher.
When I moved into a new building, another owner on a lower floor did not have the washer connections tight. Over time, there was a leak that spanned 3 floors and walls had to be replaced along with general repairs. Make sure the hoses are on correctly, hot-to-hot, cold-to-cold, and that they are on tight.
I agree with all of the other comments, be a perfectionist, some things that make not seem fixable actually are. Good luck and congratulations!
If the time limit is 30 minutes, then the sales staff or anyone else can’t be there to distract. And as far as not bringing anyone else, that’s baloney, I though One Rincon Hill tried that too and finally had to give up on that, but not sure if they did.
Our walkthrough [at ORH] was two hours and we feel like we barely got everything in. All of the aforementioned suggestions are valid and it would be difficult to get them all done in 30 mins. I would premptively ask for more time up front … perhaps ask for a couple hours and see what they say.
I think that with blue tape, a digital camera, a list of what to look for and another set of eyes [your realtor] you probably should be fine [IMO] given that you realtor should be acting in your best interest.
Don’t buy the 30 minute walk through talk. You are buying a home in the building. They don’t want you to start measuring for your new sofa and coffee table, but if it takes 2 hours to address every issue you find, that’s completely acceptable.
We got an interesting note from Arterra the other day stating that ‘they are aware’ people are still shopping around for mortgages and that they should already be locked with an approved lender. I believe it also reminded us that many types of mortgages are no longer being offered.
@anon, who posted the 60 day notice
I have also bought a unit at Arterra, but will not be closing until later. I also received the letter and found the recommnedation about extended rate lock to be curious. Maybe buyers didn’t ask about rate locks or decided against getting one, thinking that interest rates were still declining.
Some of the preferred lenders were offering refundable extended rate locks earlier this year. I’m not sure if that is still the case. You may be able to lock at a small add-on rate.
Common area problems result in lawsuits.
Especially ten years down the line when the HOA goes after the developer for last chance fixes. This is when lawsuits start. When an HOA sues a developer for repairs, it hurts the value of your condominium.
All good realtors will tell you do not buy a unit in a building with a lawsuit pending.
That is why you want your new construction purchase inspection to cover the roof, the foundation, the sytems and common area items of the building you are purchasing.
That is why you want your new construction purchase inspection to cover the roof, the foundation, the sytems and common area items of the building you are purchasing.
Has ANYONE ever done this? This is a fantasy. There’s NO WAY you’d ever get this done. For example, the Infinity and ORH common areas are still being worked on.
The paperwork for the Hayes said the same 30 minute thing and that I could only bring my realtor, but we took all the time we wanted and brought a developer friend along and no one said anything. Not sure if the same will apply here.
I also agree with just about everything here. We closed on our condo almost two years ago, and things turned out well for us (i.e. – they fixed everything we wanted). We did NOT hire a contractor, and I don’t think it’s neccessary. You just need to go into it with being extremely picky, and document and blue tape everything.
You should also inquire about the new home warranty. I’m guessing you get a year to fix any defects that come up, but I would make sure and use it to your advantage.
Also, most (all?) new condos in CA come with a 1 year warranty
Only if your agent buys you one. You do have ten years to sue the developer though. And yes, common areas should be inspected. Don’t let the sales office BS you into believing that new construction doesn’t need an inspection. I know there are a lot of folks over at The Beacon who wished they’d had an inspection before they took possesion!
M.R.
And yes, common areas should be inspected.
Again, has anyone ever tried to go into a (large) new development and demand that they take you through all the common areas and add items to the punch list? I doubt it. What about the big water-filled dampening thing they have on top of ORH? Should a buyer demand to inspect that? And the generators? And the risers? The electrical system? The alarm system? Get real. Not.Gonna.Happen.
From what I have heard ORH has been screwing its buyers with a rigged inspection process. READ YOUR PURCHASE AGREEMENT CAREFULLY. Fight for what you are legally entitled to.
ORH has been trying to pass the “fit and finish walk-through” as the property inspection that the buyer is entitled to.
“Again, has anyone ever tried to go into a (large) new development and demand that they take you through all the common areas and add items to the punch list? I doubt it.”
Someone told me they tried and were denied access to inspect the common areas even though their purchase agreement gives them the right.
I do condo inspections all the time which include the common areas. They cannot deny you access.
“They cannot deny you access.”
Well, they did and now the building is trying to say the purchaser is in breach since they did not sign off. What can they do now?
I do condo inspections all the time which include the common areas. They cannot deny you access.
What’s the definition of “common area?” Suppose I was a ORH resident, could I get to the rooftop? Could I check the boiler? I don’t think so.
Put a contractors inspection in your offer.
Have a professional inspector walk through the site weeks ahead of your final walk through.
Your final walk through is generally five days before close of escrow.
The inspector can tell you what to look for during your final walk through, and point out what as not been finalized.
A walk through inpsection is not intended to be a contractors inspection.
The walk through inspection is meant to prove the home is esentially the same as when you offered to purchase it, and to prove the home is move in ready and “broom clean”.
A lot of the guts of buildings are done before the sales office is open.
If you are buying a home in building before the white paper (COO) is issued, you may have other legal protections from defect.
A good contractor inspector will come back, for a small fee, and check on items & systems that were not completed at the time of the intial inspection.
I’d be really nervous about buying anything you can’t feel and touch before you buy it in today’s market.
A lot of these projects such as ORH and Infinity were started and planned when the market was hot. I am sure a lot of these developments are not as profitable as they wished especially with all the delays surrounding ORH. I’d want to make sure they didn’t cut down on the quality after the units were pre-sold and the buyers already trapped. Hearing that some of these building are bullying the inspection process would make me think they have somehting to hide.
my advice:
Hire a licensed architect for a few hours of time to walk thru with you and create a detailed written document of everything that you want corrected, or that has a defect.
When I did my walkthrough at the Hayes (same team as Arterra) I had my realtor, and a friend (who could have been a contractor for all they knew), no problem. And we took at least an hour, no issue with the 30 minute time limit. The rep from the developer pointed out more issues than I ever would have noticed, so I felt very comfortable. A positive experience.
TAKE AN EXPERIENCED INSPECTOR. It will cost you about $300-350 and is a good investment. Ask him to be very “picky” and find anything and everything that is wrong or could go wrong.