A young couple living in London, but making the move to San Francisco next month, drops us a note looking for some guidance on San Francisco neighborhoods. Or rather more specifically, “[i]f you know London, please try to compare areas!” And as much as we love London (and know San Francisco), beyond the superficial we can’t. Any plugged-in ex-Londoners up for the challenge? (We’ll summarize any comments later this week.)
Oh, and then there’s the real reason they wrote, “we’re looking to buy a place, for around $500k…[and] finding it pretty hard to find what we want…a nice 2 bed or large 1 bed in a safe part of town.” Of course “nice,” “safe,” “large,” and “town” are all subjective (hence the first question). And we can only hope they meant £500,000 and not $500,000. But if not, let’s just consider it another little challenge…
UPDATE: A bit more information about our Londoners: They are “planning on staying in SF for about 5 years but an absolute minimum of 3,” and currently live in Hampstead/Golders Green (which they consider “nice, safe, green”).
My advice: rent for a while and get to know different areas for themselves.
It would help to know where, in London, they currently live and what areas they consider “nice” and “safe” there…
My advice: try Berkeley (north side). It’s less expensive, reasonably safe, has a vibe that a young couple would regard as positive (in my humble opinion), and SF is only a BART ride away.
I agree with the posting saying they should consider renting first until they get to know the area better — then they can decide which area best meets their needs and interests.
[Editor’s Note: With that we agree as well, but some general neighborhood guidance might still be of value (even if only in helping to inform the decision of where to first rent).]
(N1) Angel is Russian Hill
SW1 is Hayes Valley
Sloan Street is the Marina
Other Central London is Pacific Heights
South of market is the docks and east london
So is Civic Center
The Excelsior is Eeling
(Its been a while) Hampton Heath Is Noe Valley soemtimes if you tilt your head to the left and eat a lot of ibupophren)
Compared to London, nothing in america is safe. NRA! Former Pimlico Resident (St. Georges Square)
$500K will not buy much in London and the same applies in SF (not including the greater Bay Area naturally). Can’t quite agree with Kathleen about Angel being Russian Hill (Hampstead / Golders Green sounds more like it) or SW1 being Hayes Valley or “Other Central London” being Pac Heights!
My former tenants were English and they felt the Pac Heights/Cow Hollow area reminded them of Notting Hill where they lived for a time..
That’s all I’ve got for you…
They are such different cities it hardly seems worth comparing. London is vast and sprawling, while San Francisco is relatively compact. You can say obvious things like SOMA = Docklands, but only because they were both industrial. After that the comparison becomes tenuous.
One thing that the cities do share is a certain urban/suburban built environment. Unlike NYC, say, in both London and San Francisco it is completely typical to have neighborhoods dense with single family (attached) homes and flats. In both cities many have their own small yards and gardens. And, similarly, both cities often feel like a collection of villages centered around neighborhood “high” streets.
“Other central London” is certainly not Pac Hts. Do you mean Zone 1 ? This would include areas like the Tower hamlets too. Also, as far as I can remember, the closest to Notting Hill is maybe the Mission-Noe border. Definitely not Cow Hollow, for sure.
Unless Notting Hill has been completely transformed during the past 10 years.
The first comment above is the best piece of advice. Rent for a while, and then decide.
Noe Valley is St. John’s Wood. Family friendly, great shopping street with lots of small restaurants all around. It has a close neighborhoody feel and great access to public transportation.
If they’re looking at $500k, though that is going to be close to impossible in SF.
I lived in London for 6 months and SF for 6 years. Unfortunately, $500k won’t buy you a nice big one-bedroom or (especially) a 2/1 in very many places at all. So, comparisons between neighborhoods aren’t really of value here at all.
The real question is, what 2/1 or large 1/1 can I buy for $500k? Since that will dictate the possible neighborhoods (and there aren’t many) you can start there. (All the people drawing comparisons between Pac Heights and Knotting Hill or wherever are missing the point. $500k won’t get you in Pac Heights, so it’s a moot point.)
I suspect that budget puts you in Bernal, Mission, Panhandle, Deboce, maybe SOMA. None of those neighborhoods remind me of anywhere London. All are a little blue collar and a little rough around the edges. Good luck.
I don’t think 500K will get you anything in the panhandle, unless you move closer to the western addition. And well that’s more like Kilburn, without the irish.
I think Hayes Valley is a great comparison. Hayes street is comparable to Neil street. Cute boutiques, great Euro style clothing,(even the prices) hip/trendy atmosphere.
Helloe everyone and thank you very much for your posting. The bigwigs at SocketSite just emailed me to let me know that my email has become a topic of discussion. FANTASTIC!
I’ve been doing crazy amounts of research but I really appreciate hearing back from people who live in SF and know SF.
Right, so to answer your questions in order.
Oh dear, I did mean $500k. Looks as if I already need to re-align my thought process. But what’s life without its challenges….
To Amen Corner:
I live in Hampstead/Golders Green. Nice, safe, green.
moved from London to SF:
Someone said the same thing to me earlier today so that’s a definite consideration.
Mark D:
We were pretty set on buying a place but we’ll see about renting for about 6 months first. Its such a big move anyway I quite liked the idea of a that extra level of stability buying gives you.
Phil:
Thanks for that. From your descriptions this is what I like Russian Hill, Hayes Valley and Noe Valley all sound fantastic but too expensive….
Perhaps some more information about them would be helpful.
Are they going to be here for a while (hence looking to buy)? Do they currently own out there?
I ask because they may be able to “switch” residences (depending on where in London, etc) with someone who happens to do business in London for a short term. I’ve seen this on craigslist. It’s worth a shot to look into.
London is so big compared to San Francisco, I would also want to know about there current commute times and what they consider “acceptable” commute times. It may well be that an hour on BART would be considered an improvement, and that would really widen their options.
Trailertrash:
You used to live around Hampstead too! So Russian Hill sounds perfect, but too expensive for now. Hmm.
Sleepiguy:
Pacific Heights = Notting Hill sounds good but I think we have to choose somewhere further out. I was told Pacific Heights is the nicest part of town so I think we’ll have to wait a little while for that!
Curmudgeon:
Thanks for that but comparisons are what I can work with at the moment. I am aware that the 2 cities are very different, London I know very well, SF I’ve never been to! And the difference in size means a lot but I quite like the idea of living somewhere smaller.
Englishman in SF:
Reality check in progress! I thought with the difference in currency we’d be able to get a good deal!
Noe: Oh dear.
Dave: Those do seem to be the areas that keep coming up. Your description of them…is a tad scary!
Bdb: Oh wow, this is such a reality check. Don’t like Kilburn. All of a sudden Berkeley seems to be a very good idea!
JT: Thanks for that, I will definitely be hanging out in the Hayes, but I’m not sure we’ll find ourselves living there just yet.
J: Yes we’re planning on staying in SF for about 5 years but an absolute minimum of 3 years (boyfriend’s work commitments). So switching isn’t an option. I’ve been looking on craigslist but that TIC thing is very complicated.
redseca2: I don’t have a long commute in London so 20 minutes. I’ve been told about the BART, does it run at night?
What are Daly City and Crocker Amazon like….or is Berkeley a better choice?
Berkeley is a better choice
If you’re living in Golders Green/Hampstead, you’re going to hate Daly City…trust me. If you want cute neighborhood shopping street and houses/flat/small apartment buildings, then it sounds like Noe Valley or Glen Park could meet your needs…they have a similar feeling of being away from the downtown hustle and bustle. But nothing is available at 500K…think closer to 1 mill. You can’t even touch the “nicer” north side of town. Perhaps
There is nothing as gloriously pastoral as Hampstead Heath in San Francisco. Strangely enough McLaren Park has a dim echo of it’s wild feeling in a very much more down market setting. For that reason alone you might poke around the Excelsior and Portola neighborhoods. They’re more in your price range.
But I too would strongly suggest you rent first. In fact, if it’s only for five years, I don’t know why you just don’t rent for the whole time. You’ll be able to live in a nicer neighborhood, and you won’t have to worry about real estate cycles.
Oh..and Berkeley or Oakland (particularly Rockridge neighborhood) have a lot of similarities to Hampstead. Upscale yet slightly bohemian, great food, very green (glorious gardens) and access to glorious wild parks in the east bay hills just above you. And if you locate near BART the commute into the city is a breeze.
T – If you currently live in Golders Green/Hampstead, you’d probably like Cole Valley and Noe Valley, both of which are unfortunately very dear. North Berkeley also has a pretty, village-y feel and access to lovely parks but then you would be commuting via BART into the city.
At the risk of offending someone, I’d say give Daly City and Crocker Amazon a miss.
Berkeley is a lot sunnier than foggy Daly City and Crocker Amazon.
One problem with the East Bay is that BART does not run after midnight or so– not unlike in London– but cabs are expensive across the Bay Bridge, so if you are a late night person, the East Bay is inconvenient without a car.
If you decide to rent, in addition to the neighborhoods described above, consider Bernal Heights, Glen Park, and the Inner Sunset. Each have a village-y feel, with neighborhood shops and restaurants, but are only 3 miles or so from downtown. All cost more than $500k to buy, but are less expensive than Noe Valley or Pacific Heights to rent or buy.
There can be no comparison between Hampstead and Daly City/Crocker Amazon. Don’t venture there.
Pacific Heights is like Kensington, not Notting Hill. Think Kensington Square in Kensington.
Berkeley may provide a good initial base in the Bay Area, in general. Sort of like living in (North-west) Zone 2 – Camden town, some parts of Belsize Park …
250K quid, unfortunately – is not a lot of brass, when it comes to SF real estate.
Ok, I’m logging into search engines to check out Berkeley right now! Thank you so much for the help everyone. Much appreciated.
My boyfriend seems very set on being in the city, he’s been there before, I haven’t. But from what I’ve found from my own research and from what everyobody here is saying, I think we might get a better deal in Berkeley.
curmudgeon: I hear you loud and clear, no daly city or crocker amazon! No offense anyone. Looking up Rockridge right now.
Dan: thanks for letting me know about the BART times. Well in London, I’m quite happy within my area most evenings when I do go out. And I drive here. ..BUT I think moving to a new city, we’ll want to experience as much as possible.
This is looking like a much more tricky choice than I thought.
I’d never heard of a TIC before and I’m not sure where else they exist. Can someone explain the pros…they just seem to make life difficult!
Why complicating the life by buying a house without first experiencing what san francisco has to offer? I find that san franciso residential areas are very unpredictable, especially when sun goes down. a block of housing can make a huge difference when it comes to safety, parking, noise, traffic,etc. if one likes the ocean and the fresh air then living close to the beach is an option, but then there is fog, which might make one depressed 24×7. other areas have their own pluses and minuses. one thing that drove me insane after i moved to sf from Moscow is that there are no people on streets after 8 pm.
when you come to sf try to find a temporary place in the middle of town and then explore the city. also think twice about buying anything with your boyfriend. since he is “just” a boyfriend [Removed by Editor: we’re not going there…] the california laws are very different of the one in Europe. Think twice.
Here are a couple discussion boards for Brits in SF. Neither are too active, but you might get more input from Londoners in SF:
http://SFBrits.tribe.net
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SFBrits/
Let me cast my vote in favor of you renting for 6-12 months and then buying after you’ve gotten to know the area better. First, San Francisco and Berkeley are both great places, and both diverse enough to where living in a different part of either can result in a tremendously different living experience. Second, I think real estate prices are unlikely to skyrocket during the next 12 months, but there is a realistic possibility you could get a spot bargain here or there depending on what happens with mortgage markets and the economy. Why not put yourself in a position to (a) learn what you like, and (b) sit around and wait for an ideal opportunity rather than taking a chance on something unknown?
Misha – interesting point about the differences during the day and by night. I’m not that much of a night owl but I do need to feel safe if I decide I want to pop out for a drink/magazine/milk/a walk.
[Removed by Editor]
Let me cast MY vote in favor of you renting forever and investing the difference. For half of what the most, most, most modest home ownership expenses will cost you per month, you can rent in nice, safe, large, in-town places indefinitely. Consider The Presidio – it’s very different from anywhere else in San Francisco, but you’ll still be right in San Francisco. Free shuttle downtown (NOT MUNI, YAY!)
The thing with a significant percentage of San Francisco and almost all of the Bay Area is it was developed post WWII around cars rather than pedestrians making the few compact walkable areas with good public transit (that are sometimes not even that great) very precious and expensive
I can’t see really even making the comparison. This is California, home of car culture
Not sure if this will be helpful, but it can give you a taste of some of the neighborhoods around the bay area. A warning though…the videos are somewhat corny, but I think in a cute way.
http://turnhere.com/city/san_francisco.aspx
I’m not sure I’m allowed to do this on here, but if you are interested, I rent out my flats on a short term basis. If you only want to stay 6 months or so in an apartment I may have something available while you look for a place to buy and get to know the city. The units are furnished are are located in Pac Heights/Cow Hollow. E-mail me if you want more info.
I’ve lived in Berkeley, in San Francisco (Pac Heights), and in London (Westminster), in each case for several years. I’d say forget Berkeley. In London you can always go a bit further out, pay a bit less, and your train journey is merely one stop longer. But in the Bay Area the water all around SF means that going out of San Francisco is a huge discontinuity. Living within San Francisco is extremely convenient, but going across a bridge or tunnel is always slow and crowded and inconvenient and you do it as little as possible. You really have to drive a car to live in SF (unfortunately, unlike London) and auto access is terrible. If you want to enjoy San Francisco or work in San Francisco, you have to live in SF. (If you are attending UC Berkeley, it would make more sense to live in Berkieley.) I’d also recommend renting first. When I moved to London, I started by staying one week each in hotels in seven different neighborhoods around central London. Just a week of walking around each neighborhood was enough to make a choice. Then I rented a flat in the area I liked best, and used that as a base while looking for a property to buy in the same neighborhood. Lots of work for those first seven weeks, but it paid off.
Also consider if you do move to the East bay and not SF and have two people riding Bart (our supposed “Metro”) that you will be paying something like 10 bucks each per day. Bart is priced as if it were commuter rail and not a subway. When you get to SF you would then likely need a Muni pass (45$ per month) which is the local SF transit system
These should be factored
Zig: Good to know that…about the need to drive and the cost of BART.
Matt: Fantastic! Thanks so much for that. Obviously bound gloss over a lot but its a good way to get a look at the place.
Sleepiguy: Thanks for letting me know.
vintner: very, very interesting point. Useful to hear the Berkeley/Bay Area perspective from someone who’s lived in London. I was metally drawing parallels between the distance of Hampstead to central London. Sounds like a very different journey. If you don’t mind answering, which 7 areas did you stay in and where did you choose? Westminister?
A lot of food for thought. This is great.
The connection between Rockridge (21 minutes on BART) is no longer than from Hampstead to central London (Hampstead to Leicester Square is 16 minutes, for instance, anything with connections is more). The transit time between Berk/Oak and downtown SF is not materially different from most SF neighborhoods and downtown, so it works very well for commuting. However, it is a good point that every time you want to do something in the city (particularly late at night) you would have to weigh whether jumping in a car and dealing with the bridge is worth it. So it’s a lifestyle decision…Berk/Oakland have a lot going for them, but you’d have to want to explore on that side of the bay for a lot of your leisure.
Having just spent the past year trying to find a home to purchase in SF, you’ll most likely need to rent anyway. Also, the loan market has gotten really tight in the past couple of weeks. Brokers and banks aren’t being as creative as they were and 20% down from what I’m hearing is an absolute must.
I would vote for renting first. Having been to London several times and staying for weeks at a time, I find it difficult to compare London to San Francisco. They are just two very different cities.
I will toss in another vote for Rockridge or Berkeley – though there really isn’t anything to buy in the $500k range. It is green, walkable, lots of boutiques and top rated restaurants – and only 20 minutes to SF. SF is a great setting and has great architecture, but there is a lot of concrete and tourist activity in a small area (SF in a tiny city).
I lived in the UK for 2 years and spent a lot of time in London/Putney. London is infinitely easier to navigate with cars, public transportation, parking etc. I have a stick shift and driving those hills in SF can give you a heart attack. Get an automatic if you buy a car.
With the current mortgage meltdown it is a really really bad time to buy. Definitely rent until things settle down and get to know the lay of the land and what things are really worth.
I was in Camden for a bit, and I totally compare that to Lower Haight in my head, all the time. Upper Haight/Cole Valley seems Hampsteady to me, though it’s more low-rent. Laurel Heights would probably be the most Hampstead I can envision. I’m not sure about the conversation here and whether it’s equitable between London & SF- lending is so different in London. I’d say don’t go East Bay if you want to spend weekends and nights in the city. I call East Bay “social death” (as a SF-er) since most people who move there slowly trail off into their own scenes on the Eastside. Also, you could probably figure out a 1-bedroom in the 500 range, in a building on Russian hill or something. But nothing super nice. I believe couples routinely make do with 1-bedrooms here in the city.
Even if you did want to buy a place – good luck. As foreigners you have no credit history here. Getting a cell phone, let alone a bank account and a loan is going to be hellish. And good luck having an offer accepted on any house with foreign financing. If you don’t have most of that 500k in cash – you should really just expect that you’ll be renters while you’re here. Something like 80% of San Francisco rents – tenants have pretty good rights – it really isn’t bad.
Look in Rockridge and North Berkeley as well – but also as a renter. You can’t buy anything there you’d want to live in for 500k either.
If you’e considering the East Bay, how about a cute, quaint village next to Berkeley called, of all things, Kensington? It really is a lovely place to be, a short hop and skip to the trendy shops/food on Solano Ave in Berkeley. Get a smart car, and you’ll be set! And it’s right near Bart, too.
Another comment along the vein of getting a mortage – American financial institutions are horrible at recognizing credit histories from overseas.
I work with a woman from the UK who moved here 5 years ago. At the time she moved here she owned a home in Cambridge (UK). It was a real pain for her to get an american credit card and other credit because american institutions refused to accept her credit history from the UK.
If you have 500K$ CASH to put towards the purchase of a condo or a TIC that is one thing (although as it is pointed out in the posts above, 500K won’t get you very much in a nice ‘walking’ neighbourhood in SF).
But if you plan on getting a loan/mortage to purchase a place here upon arrival you will have a hard time due to your lack of percieved credit history, etc.
curmudgeon: I’ve started looking around emeryville and berkeley and there’s a huge difference in what we can get for our money. You’re right though, its a lifestyle choice we need to make. Its the age old size/location/price debate. Price dictates location to a large extent and from that we either get a place in a not so nice part of town, but its central. Or we get a really cute place, with a long journey into town. And the general consensus seems to be we need to budget for a car as well.
Noe: Luckily this has been a work in progress for over a year so we already have an approved mortgage.
Anon: point noted.
RockridgeKitty: Berkeley/emeryville are looking more inviting by the minute! I drive an automatic in London and I’ve heard about those legendary hills in SF…who needs a gym with those to keep you fit. But thanks for pointing that out.
I’ve found neighbourhood descriptions on http://www.sfgate.com/traveler/guide/sf/neighborhoods/ …are they accurate?
Anna: Haven’t looked into Upper Haight/Cole Valley much, they don’t seem to pop up on my searches, perhaps they’re a tad too pricey but will look in those areas specifically to see what we can find there.
East bay = social death…ha ha. Point noted though.
Shawna: I mentioned earlier we’ve been working on the move for a while so have an approved mortgage and my boyfriend is a US citizen so I’m guessing that makes things a little easier.
Doug: Love smart cars and love Kensington! Will have a look in that area now. I hear smarts are being launched in the US in April next year…in case anyone’s wondering, they are the best city cars ever. A full tank of petrol is £12/$24 compared to £75/$150 for a Range Rover. And they last about the same amount of time.
AutumnGirl: Not sure how to go about the credit card/phone issue but boyfriend being US citizen should help. Hopefully!
There are not separate homes in SF for $500k, but there are 1br condos & flats for that and less, and some are even new construction! 🙂
I live downtown (Lower Nob Hill, 4 blocks from Union Square), and love it. I’m a single woman and can safely walk around my immediate neighborhood (avoiding the Tenderloin south of O’Farrell, but it is doable).
I’d rather live in a place where everyone walks everywhere at all hours of night than a more remote neighborhood like the Richmond or the Sunset where there is no one on the street after midnight. Creepy! If you don’t like occasional night noise, just keep your windows shut.
I happily rent – the rent control is awesome, and very affordable next to the housing prices.
Cara: I’d heard that rent controlled apartments were like gold dust! How did you find one?
Oh and for the car people – living in close-in SF, I use a car maybe once every couple of weeks for a large grocery shopping trip. When I need a car, I use a car share service. I can recommend both Flexcar & Zipcar.
Due to recent tightening of mortgage guideline, you should see if you can even get the mortgage.
Consider below:
– Do you have SSN and great credit score (720+)?
– Have you worked in London by American company with US pay roll?
– Do you have 2+ year work history with current emoloyer (assuming you will be transfered by UK company)?
– Do you have 20-30% down payment?
– Is your income $150,000+ (to qualify for full doc loan for $400,000)?
Otherwise, you may want to rent in SF for 2 years with same employer and save for 20% down payment.
Unless you are planning on paying all cash you will have a hard time obtaining a mortgage as you probably do not have a credit history here in the US. Also, if you live in Hampstead you are likely to be somewhat dissapointed in the areas in which you can afford. Unfortunately SF is one of just a handful of places on earth where a Londoner can get “sticker shock”. I was born in London and have lived all over – from Knighsbtridge to Streatham and everything in between. It really is not possible to make a comparison – except to say that I think you will love the better parts of SF. You might look at the Peninsula (south of SF, no bridges, commuter trains and two motorways). Towns such as Burlingame, San Mateo and San Carlos have attractive town centres with al fresco dining, nice shops, low crime and truly great parks. However everything pretty much shuts down at 10PM. Like the other posts here I recommend you rent. Even if you find somewhere to purchase for 500k, you will have mandatory maintenance fees (known as HOA dues here), and pretty steep property taxes. TIC is too comlicated (at least as it pertains to most cases in SF)to explain here but is essentially fractional ownership of a single property (which in SF probably means split into flats)by more than one person who are not married to each other. Again it will likely complicate your financing.
Just chiming in as an expat Brit in SF — I spent most of my life in Lewisham, SE London, which is an extremely unfashionable thing to admit to and hard to describe to non-Brits (I usually tell people it’s near Greenwich and that helps, although I did tell someone it’s near where the Shoebomber is from!).
I moved here seven years ago to live in Bernal Heights, which has a cozy village feel, but house prices right now are INSANE. You might get a fixer-upper cottage around there for $599k, but maybe you won’t want to put a lot of work in — or even have the time.
The Mission is definitely gentrifying in parts, and you could probably find a house/apartment for rent in the Excelsior (a bit more residential and sleepy, but still close to BART and with good bus connections). Don’t be put off by the crime stories in the paper — if you’ve walked the streets of London at night, you can handle most parts of SF, although obviously some areas of the city are dodgier than others. Use your common sense.
There’s a lot of fun stuff at Mister SF: http://www.mistersf.com/ if you want to explore the city before you make your mind up.
I work in Emeryville, and it’s Loft Central at the moment — you could probably find something cool and modern here with a bay view, but there’s hardly anything around here except converted warehouses and biotech companies. There are a few bars and restaurants, but I find the place creepy at night (and there’s a lot of car crime). It’s definitely not like living in a city, unless you live over the Bay Street Mall and then you have everything!
There’s a free bus that goes to BART and then you can be downtown from there in fifteen minutes, but that bus stops running at around 9.30 p.m. and BART stops around midnight. Worth considering if you’re going to spend a lot of time going out in SF.
Gold dust? Not at all – the rent-controlled apartments are in *any* building older than ~1970. Which, in my particular neighborhood, is almost everything, since they’re almost all Edwardians. 🙂
I have an airy, top-floor studio with walk-in closet, hardwood floors, clawfoot tub, separate kitchen (with dishwasher & full-size gas stove) & breakfast nook and a bay window for less than $1,000/month. There are 1 bedrooms for ~$1,500 right now. Keep an eye on Craigslist.org .
Living on a budget in SF, I just want to dispell the myth that you can’t afford to live here. Sure, you have to save costs elsewhere (living in a smaller space, using car share & public transit and walking more), but currently I wouldn’t trade with anyone.
I second “East Bay=Social Death.” You’re coming here for a few years, you want to have fun in the city, right? Don’t move to Berkeley. It’s lovely, and I will probably move there when I have kids, but it’s not the city. Move to a great neighborhood where you can walk to stuff (my favorite is the area around Church and Market, but I’m biased because that’s where I live).
I also think you should rent for a while before buying so you can understand the different neighborhood cultures. For example, Pac Heights is lovely, but I wouldn’t live there if you paid me… I prefer a bit more diversity than that neighborhood offers. The Mission is scary in places, but some of the areas around Dolores Park are actually quite lovely. This is all stuff that you will get to know if you rent in the city for a year.
Two other things you should know:
You do NOT need a car to get around in SF. Yes, it’s nice to get away to Napa for the weekend, or drive to the grocery store on a Sunday night, but that’s what Zipcar is for (full disclosure: I have a car, but I drive less than once a week).
Also, most landlords want you to sign a 12-month lease when moving in to an apartment, so if you want to rent shorter term you may have to work out something creative or sublet.
Good luck!
p.s. I looked at the SF Gate neighborhood descriptions and I’d say they are accurate, if a bit rosy. From the description of the mission you’d never know that certain blocks actually are dangerous. The shop-restaurant descriptions are pretty good, though, and give you a little feel of the neighborhood pulse.
I third the East Bay = Social Death. 🙂
T the London Girl who is asking -Cool – so it seems you’ve got a mortagage and boyfriend who is a US citizen – that will definately help you in all sorts of little ways.
On the rent controlled apts topic – basically the way it works is that if you rent an apt in an older building (one of the posts above said built before 1970) then it is a rent controlled building. However rent control only applies for the length of time you rent the apt. Basically if I were to move the city today (I live on the Peninsula in the charming town of Menlo Park – I’d recommend it but I think it’s a bit further than you want to go)…anyway, if I were to move to the city and sign a lease with the apt owner, then rent control starts at the same time as my lease. Basically the landlord is limited by how much s/he can raise my rent once I sign the lease. In the past the limits set by the city have been in the single digit % range increase/year. The landlord does have the option of saving up several years of rent increase % and then applying them all at once – say to increase the rent by 15% after 4 years instead of 2 -3% a year for 4 years. However the important point is that the lease I have signed will be at the current market rent for the apt. So if you find an apt you like in a buidling that qualifies for rent control then you will pay market rate rent the first year…but all subsequent years that you are the tenant your rent increases will be dictated by the city. So rent control is great for long term renters – there are people who have had their apts for 20 years and are paying a pittance in rent (say 300$ for their apt that at current market rates would go for 2000$).
Now, as you are moving to SF how could you score the rent controlled apt? Well, as I’ve indicated it’s pretty hard. Your only option is to share an apt with someone who is already enjoying rent control…but personally I wouldn’t want to share an apt with my boyfriend and a stranger…
There is rent control in several different cities around the bay area and what I’ve described above only applies for San Francisco. I’m not familiar with how rent control works in the other cities (although I think Berkley is one of the rent controlled cities).
I do think the neighbourhood descriptions on SFGate are fairly accurate. Another suggestion I have is for you to post on the San Francisco board at Flyertalk.com. That is a site for frequent travellers and you may find more people who can give you a direct comparison between your current neighbourhood and SF ‘hoods.
Good luck. I like Craigslist as a site to preview for rent apts…
West Portal might be an area to consider. Muni Metro runs down there, and although its slow and sometimes unreliable, it does take you straight to the middle of town. There is a nice retail area on west portal ave thats probably the most active of the outter neighborhoods (that not counting 9th/irving or clement street). There are more amenities on neighboring taraval street. Stern Grove is a nice green space nearby and further down is Fort Funston/Lake Merced area. Stonestown mall is also in the area. It’s middle to high end mall. There is also another retail district nearby on ocean avenue which muni travels down. Because its behind Twin Peaks, it feels isolated from the rest city, even though its only about 3 miles from downtown, but amenities are plenty I find it to be an attractive place to take a stroll. Especially like St. Francis Wood. I have no idea what prices are like to own there. I know Sloat Blvd and St Francis Wood is expensive.
Gen: Thanks for the very detailed breakdown. Useful to know.
Expat: gear up for the disappointment! Oh dear. But yes I think I am predisposed to liking the nicer parts of town….so this puts us in a tricky position. I’ve noticed the HOA fees on most of the places we’ve considered, they do seem to run high but its not so different from service charge in the UK. TIC. Complicated. Got it. Will try to avoid it!
Vicky Vroom: Your first line made me laugh. Bernal Heights has popped up on our search. Would you recommend it as a place to live? I’d noticed Mission seemed a bit sketchy…a bit like the bad end of Ladbroke Grove. I’m actually a bit jumpy when I’m out of my comfort zone with London which sounds awful but every day we’re getting smacked in the face with more knifings and shootings so it leaves the nerves a little frazzled.
Thanks for the description of Emeryville. Great by day…not so by night. I don’t think we’ll spend a lot of time out but its nice to have the flexibility.
Cara: good to know…will see what I can find. And it’s a relief to hear someone say a car isn’t essential. But I have one in London so I’m predisposed to wanting one anyway!
Jeccat: east bay= social death. Got it. Very good point about moving outwards later on. From what I’ve read about Pacific Heights, might work better for me when I’m about 10-15 years older but I can see why its not somewhere I’d want to be now either. Thanks for letting me know SFGate descriptions are accurate.
AutumnGirl: Thanks for the details on rent control. Very handy to hear from someone who knows how it works.
Another vote for Rockridge. Cute houses, easy BART commute to SF, much cheaper. GoldersGreen is the one place in London I feel familiar enough with to say I would compare it to Rockridge.
I moved from London, well actually St. Albans, 2 years ago and echo some of the sentiments. I rented initially a furnished condo in SOMA for 6 months, then purchased in the same block. Lessons learnt:
Furnished accommodation is not that common, although renting furniture is fairly easy.
Lack of credit ratings will make life difficult. If you bank with one of the few truly international banks it will help, but not a lot; we were with HSBC and used UK equity to guarantee local financing. Talk with your bank before you come out here and bring a large pile of cash! And even then I would think a mortgage would be close to impossible from day one.
We moved from a large single family home to a two bed condo in SOMA and love it; no more gardening, we have a pool, gym, sauna, BBQ all in the block and covered by HOA fees, plus we have the water just over the road, restaurants all around and arts, crafts and concert venues within walking distance or just a short cab ride..
Trying to determine the equivalence of areas assumes the cities are similar. They are not, so you need to experience the different areas to work out what will work for you; please rent initially! Renting for 6 months allowed us to determine what we wanted, plus build up some credit history.
$500K, forget it.
I work in Redwood Shores, about halfway down the peninsular. If you or your boy friend are working anywhere other than the city center, you will want to base your location accordingly. For example living in the Marina for a southbound commute will easily add 30 minutes travel time.
It is the land of the car, but parking sucks in the city. We get by with one car as my wife can walk to work, something she loves after years of taking the train in from St. Albans.
An active ex-pats web site is http://www.meetup.com/92
Given the choice between Berkeley and Rockridge, Rockridge wins, hands down. No contest.
East Bay = Social Death?
Depends what you want to do. If you want to go to bars and nightclubs, it is not the place to be.
To second the previous poster, Emeryville has really nice lofts in a really scary industrial area. You don’t want to walking around at night.
Rockridge has Craftsman houses that you can rent, friendly neighbors, and great restaurants. Easy access to Napa/Sonoma and Tahoe.
American are scarycats when it comes to buying. Keep that in mind 70% plus of SF residents rent, don’t own. If you are going to be working in SF, don’t buy across the Bay. Bart is not the Tube. You will be leaving parties at 11:30 pm on a Saturday night, to get home before BART closes down. Might as well take up knitting. Find a sweet place in the inner mission, A TIC on Lily street, or hayes valley modern condo, a tiny junior one bedroom in the Portside building in South Beach, 310 Townsend conversion one bedroom a cool brick loft for 600K, buy something on Woodward Avenue near the freeway, or sheriden street, an aprtment on Clara street, a TIC the transmission, or on the south side of Cortland Avenue, maybe a cool and cozy loft in SOMA on clementina, and walk past the passed out homeless people on the sidewalk. It’s America. Live in something cute and cozy and make it your own. Find a fabulous fixer in NOPA. or the mid-richmond, there is a lively Irish, Russian, Chinese community there and it is real and very san francisco-ey. Live in the heart of san francisco and walk the streets. You will be happier, especially if you own now, rents are sky high and you will be better off owning in the long run. Live on top of each other and make it other crazy, but live in town. That why it’s worth the huge move from London. To live in another great city. Berkeley is nice enough, but San Francisco is in a league of its own. a short lease hold in the mandarin towers in the heart of chinatown. Oh the places you could live!
Seems like a lot of folks on this site are doom and gloom sky is falling real estate economy experts, and are just waiting for the burkas to be passed out at the bus stations or something.
Welcome to the land of fog and nuts!
Our story: my husband and I are from a commonwealth country. We moved to SF almost 8 years ago. At first we stayed in temp housing on nob hill while settling into jobs, learning about the city and trying to find a place to buy.
Banking and credit issues were a big hassle. To get a cell phone we put a $1000 deposit down for a year. You will have to build up credit card history, too.
After 4 months in temp housing, we did not feel comfortable making a sudden decision about buying a place, our jobs were insane and started looking for a rental. (Also the pressure from the agents and brokers were too much for us).
It was the middle of the dot com era and ended up settling in one of the few apt bldg that would rent without US credit histories. The apt was in the tenderloin, which for us was a good experience as we could walk to work!
After much looking around at neighbourhoods and way too many places, we bought a small studio on the edge of the tenderloin/lower nob hill. (The place was in the very first building we every saw in SF!) So far we do not have a car. It costs $200/month to lease a space and there is a three year waiting list in the building.
The place is small but has a fantantic view and we enjoy the neighbourhood a lot. We can reach any place in the bay area via public transit or car rental (all the major companies are two blocks away). My husband still walks to work and I commute to the east bay via bart or bus. We have looked for a bigger place but want to stay in the same neighbourhood so we keep hunting for another place.
It sounds like we live close to Cara and I agree with her that it is a safe place to walk at night. I use to work in Soma and that area’s blocks are big and do not have much pedestrian traffic at night – very scary.
To me it does not matter which neighbourhood you live in as long as it fits your lifestyle. I hope you enjoy SF as much as we have and good luck on your hunt for an apartment.
This MLS listing# 329508 (pending) This is a perfect example of london landing in a faraway town.
I have pasted the SFAR MLS listing below.
http://sfarmls.rapmls.com/scripts/mgrqispi.dll?APPNAME=Sanfrancisco&PRGNAME=MLSLogin&ARGUMENT=SYpSvvBaRxJS4E5RYjMgrtqLGXYfF4wbihRl3u0VvyA%3D&KeyRid=1
So if you are serious about the east bay, as a commuter you will probably be better served going to Rockridge. Pretty much a straight shoot to San Francisco – lots of nice stores and restaurants on the main drag.
Berkeley has two BART stations so the ease of your commute depends on how close you are to one of those. Note that the downtown Berkeley station doesn’t have parking per se (you can probably use a pay lot but that adds up). And depending on the day and hour, there isn’t always a direct train to SF (usually in the late evenings or weekends).
And yes, BART does stop running around midnight but as a last resort you can take the Night Bus (not the Knight Bus). It stops at most BART stations and runs from 1-5am. It’s quite an adventure (emphasize the adventure part) but does prevent you from either being standed or paying $100 for cab back home.
http://transit.511.org/providers/night.asp
Good luck with your search!
I am suprised no one has mentioned South Park (in the heart of SoMa) yet, which as we all know was designed by an English architect and modeled after a neighborhood in London. Of coarse, it will be difficult finding something for $500K here.
http://www.inetours.com/Pages/SFLndmrkVws/SPark.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Park,_San_Francisco
sorry, I must have missed this. Which English architect and London neighborhood?
I moved to SF from London in 1993. I would rent for at least a year to see what areas you like, particularly with the mortgage meltdown going on.
If you feel you must buy, then TICs are probably where you’ll get the best deal in your price range, and there even are some one bedrooms in Cow Hollow or Ashbury Heights in your price range. CityLivingSF.com and other groups in San Francisco specialize in TICs only. With the individual loans (from several banks, even eloan) they aren’t considered as risky as they used to be.
I would say Notting Hill is a bit funkier and even now still a bit grittier than Pacific Heights. I would say that Pac Heights is more Kensington and Notting Hill is more Noe Valley.
I’m not a realtor or associated with the group I threw in above, I’ve seen their emails and toured a couple of their units with my former nanny.
‘Lord’ George Gordon.
The Oval park is reminescent of the some of the oval gardens in some of the nicer residential London neighborhoods of the early 1900s.
As a native San Franciscan who has just returned after 4 years in London (Kensington and Earls Court), I’m finding both this article, and the comments, fascinating.
. . .as for neighborhood comparisons. . .(and of course, these are obviously very loose and biased comparisons!)
Kensington or Knightsbridge=Pacific Heights
Earls Court=North Beach
Camden/Islington area=Haight area (upper and lower)
Docklands and Canary Wharf=SOMA
Kew and Richmond=Berkeley
Bloomsbury=Hayes Valley
St. John’s Wood=Noe Valley
Golder’s Green=Potrero Hill
Covent Garden=Nob Hill (towards downtown with the luxury apartments, around Grace Cathedral)
Soho=Tendernob
Angel=Duboce Triangle
Southern Notting Hill=Cow Hollow
Northern Notting Hill=Hayes Valley
Those are all that I can think of right now!
Sorry North Kensington was actually supposed to be ‘Lower Fillmore’
Some more:
Cole Valley=Regent’s Park OR Holland Park areas
Bernal Heights=Hammersmith
Pimlico=Inner Richmond
Clerkenwell=South Park
I lived in Notting Hill Gate from 97-99 and would compare it to Potrero Hill, central location, walk to everything including transit and downtown, plenty of open space, numerous expats and most importantly great pubs, and a brewery too. Did i mention sun,parking spaces, churches and decent library. Council flats and hodlums too on the southern edge.
I reccomend you keep your money in the bank preferably in the UK. Rent a new 2 bedroom flat for $3000 and enjoy the three to five year journey. Avoid the real estate roller coaster and the suck it up “my nieghborhood and condo/house is a dump’ daily rotten feeling. Real estate in this town is overpriced due to short supply. A nice 2 BR and safe place here will cost 1.3-1.6M if you have my taste in hobs and cookers.
I rented a flat for $4000 when I was in London because my company was paying of course but really a decent flat cost 1M sterling at that time. Twice that now.
There is nothing like HH/Golders Green in this city because we don’t have upscale, high density, ring suburbs, for that you will need to move to Boston or Washington DC.
Best,
How about a one bedroom in Book Concern Building, at 83 McAllister? Or a studio with a sleeping loft? And there may be a resale coming up … but there are very few two bedroom units, and they seem to have sold quickly. Very centrally located, with excellent public transportation .. but the street life is a bit dodgy (to use a Londoner’s expression – which I noted another contributor has already used).
I was born and grew up in London, but have lived here for the past 45 years. So I may be out of touch with how the neighborhoods of London have evolved (although I return almost every year), but comparisons are almost impossible to make. The civic center neighborhood of SF is a real oddball mix of land uses and is simply very San Francisco; no comparison with any district of London seems valid. But I would head down the Peninsula if I were looking for some kind of comparison with Hampstead and Golder’s Green – Burlingame and San Mateo would fit the bill just fine.
Ok, woke up to numerous more responses…Thanks a lot everyone. In order
BINK: Looking up Rockridge in the MLS right now!
PAULW: I’ve been with HSBC since I was 10…so I hope they reward my loyalty by being helpful!! Piles of cash is a relative term but I’m doing my best to save more, in anticipation of the big move.
Very good point about gardening…I don’t have the patience for it and these little hidden costs tend to add up quickly. A patio would be nice though.
My boyfriend is working around SOMA so the closer we are the better, but I’m guessing even if we move to the East bay, his commute won’t be so bad.
Thanks for the expat site. Logging on right now.
ANON: ok!
ROCKRIDGEKITTY: I’m not much of a nightclub goer anymore. I’ve done my fair share of partying in London and it doesn’t excite me as much as it used to. But I do like the idea of choice.
Another vote for Rockridge noted!
KATHLEEN: I have noticed a general resistance to buying which is fair enough as we’re moving to a new city. We found a TIC on Lily which I loved the look of, but the TIC thing is a rather complex and lengthy procedure. Isn’t it? That’s what we’ve been lead to believe so please correct me if this is wrong.
CA: Not unduly worried about pressure from realtors and brokers. They can’t be worse than Foxtons in London! I often end up wanting the thing I saw first so I can imagine that happening with property as well. Thanks for the tips!
KATHLEEB: Very nice, hadn’t really looked at Richmond before. Looks nice a nice part of town. Reading up on neighbourhood descriptions now. Funny, that property hadn’t come up on any of my searches.
PERPLEXED: Another vote for Rockridge! Points noted about the commute. Thanks for pointing that out.
PAUL HWANG: I’ve looked at South Park, sounds great but I know its out of our price range so ruled it out. But does look very, very nice.
ANON: I believe South Park was modelled on Berkeley Square or Grosvenor Square in London’s Mayfair. I remember reading about it but can’t remember the architect behind it.
LAUREN: TICS…long, lengthy and complex. Or not? That’s what we’ve been lead to believe. I like the sound of Noe Valley.
CHLOE: That makes 2 of us finding this fascinating. I’m very impressed at the response. Thanks for the breakdown of areas.
JETT: Portero Hill is on my list of places so thanks for a bit more info on what its like. Very interesting that Notting Hill keeps coming up as an area that people who are responding have lived in.
ROGERB: Will look up the Book Concern Building now. Thanks for that.
Has anyone else considered that part of the reason we’re all so excited to help this lovely Miss T is that we’re looking for any excuse NOT to dwell on the collapse of the credit markets?
Don’t mean to hijack the conversation, and no need to respond. Just a little observation!
I N’th the notion of renting, at least to start. As for buying a place, as others have said, $500k won’t get you very far — especially not in SF. But, IMO, if you want to be in SF, you should live in SF.
You can also look at the Castro and surrounds, not to buy as it’s too expensive, but to rent for sure. Nice areas around there — like Duboce Triangle and upper Castro.
Another thing to consider about buying is that you’ll be putting a lot of money into what is effectively a US dollar-backed asset. Right now the dollar is sucking and it could fall even further. OTOH, in 3-5 years it could rebound against the GBP, so who knows. Something to consider at least.
Lastly, as far as cell phones go, buy yourself a cheap quad-band unlocked GSM phone in London, then pickup a pre-paid SIM card in the US. It will save you the hassle of credit checks for just a cell phone. Nearly all cell phones in the US are part of a plan requiring 1-2 year contracts. Unlocked GSM phones are a lot more expensive here as a result. It’s almost as easy to buy a pre-paid SIM card from T-Mobile here as it is in Europe.
curmudgeon –
Doubt it. In the hierarchy of things I currently worry about (as a homeowner in SF, etc.), the credit squeeze doesn’t crack the top 20. There’s nothing I can do about it, so I’m living my life.
Why the huge number of posts? Interesting topic, and I think people are just generally helpful.
A comparison I believe that was missed:
Laurel Heights = Marylebone
(medical/dental offices and families)
3-5 year commitment? So is your boyfriend going to be a postdoc at UCSF in China Basin?
I’d say rent for all the reasons already mentioned.
One neighborhood not mentioned is Mission Dolores–close to all the great places in the Mission, but not IN the mission. Great weather, nightlife, food, transportation, young, lively, etc.
Glen Park seems to attract Brits for some reason. . . . . I just built a house there and am English. Five of my new neighbo(u)rs are BRITS! Some kind of a re-invasion?
I am a typo queen. kathleen is relly my name. really. When looking at things, the TIC pro/con list to me, boils down to this:
If you buy with others on one loan, look carefully at who covers costs when a resale forces a refinance. If you are getting an “individual” or fractional TIC loan, the higher costs of that loan should be reflected in the sales price of the property so on a cash basis it should be wash.
The coolest flats and apartments are in this marketplace. Vicotiran and Edwardian flats and smaller mid-century 4-6 units buildings are often offered as TIC purchases. With TIC’s cash is king, and its good to have, and often required to have a minimum of 25% cash down.
There is tons of new construction out on the marketplace, and it is all nicely done, but not too much of it is inspirational.
There are plenty of furnished rentals out there for the short term basis. It is really easy to to find for example trinity management has several buildings that are devoted solely to short term furnished rentals.
Shout out to kathleen – hey neighbor! I just saw the listings for 725 Pine, and they advertise a 1-bedroom for $510k if you’re interested. I say keep looking if you want to stay in the neighborhood – fantastic deals come up every now & again. 2 years ago a great top-floor 1 bed with a rooftop garden included was asking $500k at Bush & Jones.
Oh, and if you want headaches, just drive around downtown SF. Seriously – walking & cabs are much better here. You’ll see more and enjoy more. I’m thrilled to live next to theater district & close to civic center. People give me their extra tickets all of the time because they know how close I live and how much I’ll enjoy seeing the performances!
As for the people noticing the high number of posts – this question was cross-posted to Apartment Therapy in the San Francisco section. We’re a chatty fun bunch with strong housing opinions, especially here in the bay area!
T-The London Girl,
Rent!
At that price-point you won’t be happy in any of the locations you’ll be able to afford. None will feel like London. If you must purchase, you might find a condo out by the beach (Sunset/Parkside) or in Diamond Heights for under $500,000. FYI, our “beach” is not like the California beaches you may envision. It is foggy as hell, cold, windy, and the surf is horrible all spring and summer and HUGE all fall and winter. Otherwise, San Francisco is fantastic.
I am currently doing a [“tour de San Francisco“] (real estate), and I’d put the whole thing here for you all to read, but I can’t. [Y]ou can see a bit about the neighborhoods there. We haven’t done the whole city yet, but we’re slowly getting there.
Best of luck to you.
I would definitely recommend Bernal Heights as a place to live — although watch out for places south of Crescent, as that puts you near some housing projects (think the North Peckham Estate!) that are pretty rough at night. Bernal can be a bit bijou — it’s been “discovered” recently — but it’s friendly, with a handful of great destination restaurants and two excellent bars.
[Removed by Editor]
Mission can definitely be a bit sketchy if you’re on the Folsom/Van Ness side, but on the other side towards Noe/Castro is very nice. (Liberty Hill historic district is probably a bit pricey, though.) I actually feel pretty safe in the Mission because there are so many people around at all hours, plus bars and taquerias open late, but there are some very strange people around at all hours too!
Good luck … and let us know what you decide!
I’d be curious to know what part of London does 500K buy you – “nice,” “safe,” “large,”
The last I knew 500K in London is like the TENDERLOIN.
but what part of london would be like the Inner Sunset 🙂
Here’s the mappings I would think of. I currently live in SW London but lived in the bay area most of my life. Therefore, this list is a bit more biased towards SW London neighborhoods.
Pacific Heights = Belgravia
Nob Hill = Mayfair
Russian Hill = Hamstead (but a bit closer to town)
Marina = South Ken, Chelsea
North Beach = Soho
Financial district = The City
Tenderlin = Shepherds Bush
Haight = Camden
SOMA = Vauxhal
Misssion = Fulham/Earls court, but a bit more sketchy
Marin (esp. Belvedere, Tiburon) = Wimbledon
Aaron: That’s definitely the way to go with a mobile phone. I’d already decided that so its one less thing to worry about.
Amused: Love Marylebone so thanks for adding that to the list.
Espumo: Yep, Mission Dolores is on our list, thanks for clearing up the difference between that and Mission itself!
FogCityBrit: Ok, Glen Park hadn’t come up yet so will look into it.
KATKLEEN: Thanks for that, will see if we can stretch to a higher deposit amount. Is a TIC a slower process?
CARA: 725 Pine….how can I find details for that? Checked on MLS and its not listed yet.
THEFRONTSTEPS: SF people are very pro renting! Interesting. We’re not particularly but we’re thinking about it a bit more now. I guess with London, getting on the property ladder is such a big deal that when you’re on, you don’t really get off it.
I’d heard the pacific side wasn’t the nicest place to live because of the fog and the wind. Checking out your blog now.
VICKY VROOM: Peckham? Oh dear. Will stay well clear of the south of the crescent! Bijou is good. I’ve read a bit about Bernal Heights and it sounded nice. Is Alemany on the good or bad side?
MICHAEL L: I thought America was cheaper than London for real estate so I thought we’d get something good for 500k. My mistake!. It would take some thorough research but for £250k its either size or location, not really both. There are lots of parts of London I consider safe so you could get a small 1 bed in Hampstead/Belsize Park/Golders Green/Maida Vale/Camden/Earls Court….if you wanted something larger you’d have to move further out to areas like Colindale/Hammersmith/Putney. Real estate agents will always have you believe differently but its possible.
NJUDAH: Will let you know after I see it.
ERIC: From your description I’d say I’d like Russian Hill, probably Haight, probably Marin and Marina.
———————————
I think overall my initial view was with the strong pound we should be able to spend less and get a good property in SF. While I still think prices in SF seem to run a little lower than London, I can clearly see its not as straightforward as I would have liked to believe!
Its been great to hear from SF residents about the different areas and this has helped massively in whittling down our shortlist of properties to look at when we arrive. We will most likely rent a place until we can secure a property to buy but we’d still like to buy soon.
A massive thank you to everybody for all suggestions and comments, they’ve been extremely helpful for us and we will definitely be keeping socketsite and all readers posted on our progress. Any more tips and info are more than welcome!!!
“My boyfriend is working around SOMA so the closer we are the better, but I’m guessing even if we move to the East bay, his commute won’t be so bad.”
This is always the hope, but the universal experience is that the cross-bay commute is dreadful. Planning to work in SOMA and live in the East Bay should be firmly rejected. Anywhere is San Francisco is fine, but you’ll totally regret working on one side of the Bay Bridge and living on the other. It will grind you down to nothing.
“Peckham? Oh dear. Will stay well clear of the south of the crescent! Bijou is good. I’ve read a bit about Bernal Heights and it sounded nice. Is Alemany on the good or bad side?”
Alemany is on the bad side– the Alemany projects are the equivalent of council flats that Vicky alluded to. This is really just the very southern fringe of Bernal Heights. (If you are looking on an SF map, the borders of Bernal Heights are Cesar Chavez St on the north, Mission St on the west,(or some consider it to be San Jose Ave, just to the east), Highway 101 on the east, and Alemany/Interstate 280 on the south.
I’m partial to northwest Bernal, because one can walk down the hill down to Mission St (which has some excellent restaurants), and to the 24th St BART station, and because of the great views. The area along Cortland St is very nice, too, with small shops, grocery stores, cafes, and some great restaurants.
Hmm well Eric, I was born and raised in North Beach and have lived in London for 4 years now (Kensington and Earls Court), and I’m not sure if I would liken North Beach to Soho! Except maybe the very distant edge near Broadway, we’re not that sketchy there! And there’s not really a gay element. But I know, I know, these lists are totally subjective and loose. . .
Theres is SOMA TIC on today for 410K.
Live in San Francisco!
I love (all) the neighborhoods and the varied comparisons. Here are some of my neighborhood maps.
south beach:
http://www.415bryantstreet.com/pages/neighborhood.htm
Richmond/Lake:
http://www.195-25thavenue.com/neighborhood.htm
Long time lurker,first time poster..Id just like to say as a fellow Brit looking to buy how usefull weve found this thread, especially the comparisons between London and SF.
We are looking to buy an apartment,for extended holidays when we retire and to rent the rest of the year, in the uk we live in a very rural seaside area (cornwall) so we are looking for a real contrast,urban but not dangerously so if that makes sense.Opera,ballet,food are all high on our list so Hayes Valley seems to be the favourite.We normally stay wuth friend just off Piedmont avenue but i dont think the east bay is what we really want.
We would be a 100% cash buyer,does this mean we wouldnt be able to buy a tic? they certainly seem to offer the best value (we dont really want to be paying hoas for services we wont be useing) but im not sure if you have to take out a loan to join a tic? I apologise if that seems a daft question but i cant seem to find the answer anywhere and i hope i havent hijacked the thread,many thanks.
[Editor’s Note: Two decent primers for TIC’s (Tenancy in Common) in San Francisco: Tenancy in Common Questions and Answers and Tenancy In Common in San Francisco. And an important amendment to San Francisco’s subdivision code which can affect the value of a TIC: Prohibition On Condominium Conversion Passes.]
Hi everyone,
This post has been up a while so not sure if anyone will see this but just had to say a massive thanks for all the help.
After much discussion we have decided to rent, for a couple of months. It just seems SO much easier. So I’m looking forward to being able to find a cute place in a nice part of town…phew!
Most likely Russian Hill, Pacific Heights, Noe Valley, Hayes Valley…those are the areas that have piqued my interest the most.
Socketsite is fantastic! I’ll get in touch again when we’ve moved into a rented place and start the search for a place to buy.
p.s. editors…that was some seriously useful info on TICs you added at the end.
OK so it’s been 3 years, what do you think now?
I’m doing the opposite. Considering moving to London from SF. Are you still in SF? How would you compare the neighbourhoods now?
Recommendations for me?
I’m 32, single, have enjoyed living in Pac Heights, Russian Hill and the Marina. Any suggestions for a neighbourhood I should consider in London?
Thanks for you help!
k.
I skimmed back through the posts.
A nice time capsule on the mind set just at the turn of the market that some were already calling a meltdown.
I wonder if T-the girl and her boyfriend bought in SF.
Good luck Karen. I don’t know the particulars of London neighborhoods, but my suggestion would echo that of the posters 3 years ago – start with renting.