CFAH

111 Hoffman
As we wrote in October:

Purchased for $2,100,000 at the end of August 2005, a plugged-in reader noted 111 Hoffman over in Noe Valley was scheduled to hit the courthouse steps last month.

In a follow-up comment yesterday, said reader also notes that 111 Hoffman was in fact taken back by the bank (officially on September 28).

And as another reader noted early this morning, the “Stunning & luxurious remodeled home in the Heart of Noe Valley with sweeping panoramic views of the City & Bays” is back on the market and asking $1,469,250 (30% under its 2005 price).
∙ Listing: 111 Hoffman (5/4.5) 2,650 sqft – $1,469,250 [MLS]
Another Bank-Owned Multi-Million Dollar (In 2005) Noe Valley House [SocketSite]

Comments from Plugged-In Readers

  1. Posted by No No Noe

    For a few dollars more you can almost get a house in Sea Cliff. You Noe Valley are no Sea Cliff.

  2. Posted by "Dave"

    For a few dollars more you can almost get a house in Sea Cliff. You Noe Valley are no Sea Cliff.
    So true. I would love to trade my house in Noe for an extra 30 minute drive each way through the City to Sea Cliff after commuting up from the Peninsula… Since no home in Noe has ever sold for over $1m, I confidently predict that this junker will unload in the $350k range.

  3. Posted by dub dub

    I’d settle for a garage that didn’t flood after every rainstorm 🙂

  4. Posted by FAA

    I’ve always wondered about low-lying garages and floods. Can you install French drains, or is that a seismic nightmare?

  5. Posted by dub dub

    My neighbor has a garage like that (not as steep) — drains should already exist.
    But in older houses, they are sometimes inadequate, or poorly designed. My neighbor actually has gutters inside his garage to catch occasional overflow (house built in the 40’s), and there is a gutter *in front* of the door which sheds water out to drains at the side.
    I have no idea what’s going on here, because there are no pictures of the garage (odd). I assume that for eleventy million dollars, everything is fine!

  6. Posted by Zig

    “For a few dollars more you can almost get a house in Sea Cliff. You Noe Valley are no Sea Cliff.”
    I would take Noe Valley any day over Sea Cliff all being equal

  7. Posted by anonandon

    30% under 2005 takes us back to what price year? 2001? I am not sure what garage drains and Sea Cliff have to do with a price collapse on SFR’s in Noe Valley, but 30% under 2005 sure looks like a collapse to me, and all of the off topic posts cannot disguise this.

  8. Posted by sparky-b

    I don’t the above posters are trying to hide it, nor do I think one house is a price collapse for Noe SFR’s.

  9. Posted by huh

    unless you have at least ten million one of the few houses on the bluff with a front-front seat of the Golden Gate, what on earth is the attraction of Sea Cliff? unless you’re attracted to the dull manicured Bel-Air type environment… Noe is much more engaging, at least you can walk to shops and public transit.

  10. Posted by JLSF

    Interesting. Any one know anything about 1027 Cole Street – it seems be to working its way through the same process – bought in November 2005 for $1.7, listed last year for $2.2MM. Then listed as a short sale at $1.7, now I see sale pending. Presumably going to trade at a big discount to the offer, if 111 Hoffman is any indication. I live in the neighborhood and know its been vacant since pretty much the start of 09.
    Right next door is another interesting case – 1021 Cole. Redfin has it trading for $1.4 in 9/08 and $1.1MM in 6/09

  11. Posted by Zig

    Makes you wonder how people are still trying to get 1 million for a 1000 sq fot box around Douglas?
    Are they still selling?

  12. Posted by dub dub

    “off topic posts”
    A comment about drainage for the house in question is offtopic?
    Okay, how about this: 2M (the 2005 price?) is currently too high for the google industrial complex buyer in Noe valley. Those folks already have their house(s), and unless they want to trade houses with each other, the only folks left willing to pay up to live in this part of Noe need houses in approx 1M range.
    Hopefully that is more up your alley 🙂

  13. Posted by Anonandon

    I guess I was just confused that drains and Sea Cliff are what people wanted to discuss vs. the price collapse. I admit that garages like this present real difficulties during major rain events, as well as access problems for larger vehicles. Maybe this is “one house”, but this one house just had a price collapse, or to use realtor speak, it had a “price improvement”.

  14. Posted by Jeff

    Saw it this AM. The layout sucks, but could be a decent deal for someone. $2.1M in ’05 seems nuts to me. Nice fridge though (but you need to stop it from leaking…)

  15. Posted by "Dave"

    FWIW, I have a garage exactly like this and it has never flooded, even during torrential storms. It’s not as if the entire street is pouring into your driveway; that water is diverted down the curb and into a gutter. The only water that moves toward the garage is the amount collected on the tiny patch of concrete driveway between sidewalk and house. In my case, we have a trench drain that stretches the entire length of the garage door which does the trick just fine…
    French drain is not a seismic nightmare (we have them along the uphill side of our house) but are best installed at the same time of the foundation installation–you gotta dig all the way to the bottom of the footing… Really overkill for this application, unless the house is already “up on blocks”. Another option is to use a permeable concrete or paver so that more water soaks into the ground and less must be diverted.

  16. Posted by OneEyedMan

    I’m confused. It looks like Raymond finally got a camera as an early X-Mas present so he was able to take a few pictures that might help the bank maximize their return. But there’s towels and lawn furniture. Was this listed previously and he just lifted the photos from a previous listing? If so, does this fall within the much ballyhooed Realtor *Code of Ethics*?
    This is on topic for a REO listing.

  17. Posted by EBGuy

    The Shock and Awe campaign has begun; next stop, 4046 26th Street (3/2 1902 sq.ft.), which goes to the auction block on Jan. 12. The unpaid balance is small, so it could be cured (or is perhaps a symptom of much bigger underlying problems — like the liens every other month from the water dept.)

  18. Posted by anonn

    “Shock and awe,” followed up by “could be cured” ?

  19. Posted by sf jack

    Jeff said:
    “Saw it this AM. The layout sucks, but could be a decent deal for someone. $2.1M in ’05 seems nuts to me. Nice fridge though (but you need to stop it from leaking…)”
    *****
    “$2.1M in ’05 seems nuts to me.”
    Seems?
    I’m glad to see at least one post addresses the reality of past and present.
    [… Patiently waiting for some explanation from the real estate chest beaters about how this situation is some kind of outlier and can be safely ignored.]

  20. Posted by EBGuy

    Anonn, Okay, here’s what I was originally going to write:”The Shock and Awe campaign has begun; next stop, Saint Francis Woods”, before I decided to stay within Noe. I’m just trying to keep you happy with the disclaimers; at his point, I’m willing to bet that 4046 26th goes the distance as it looks like they’re on ‘hard money’ life support.

  21. Posted by NoeValleyJim

    This is a great data point, let’s see what is actually goes for. The bank has priced it to move.
    I will guess $1.75M. Any other estimates?

  22. Posted by lark

    People who live in Sea Cliff don’t have to work.
    Noe Valley is for successful professionals who work extremely hard.

  23. Posted by Zig

    I rememeber when Noe Valley was mostly for people who finally were able to move out of the Mission
    And I am only in my early 30’s
    Amazing changes

  24. Posted by EH

    Sea Cliff is for people who don’t mind their grocery shopping including an hour of driving+parking time.

  25. Posted by anonn

    You want it two ways, EBGuy. Your whole thesis is that bank owned or distressed properties will presage another market sea change. Yet you want to also ignore that the distressed volume is nowhere near critical mass, cherry pick individual properties, and talk about it on here with hyperbolic language. Hey, do what you want. But I see you working.

  26. Posted by anonn

    And I thought we already saw some bank owned or at least NOD St. Francis Woods properties? (I might wrong on that one.)

  27. Posted by "Dave"

    St. Francis Woods is for people who desire all the inconvenience and crappy weather of the City but all the boringness of the suburbs.
    People in Sea Cliff don’t care how long it takes their nannies to drive to the grocery store.

  28. Posted by tipster

    Honestly, anonn, do you really think there is such a concept of “critical mass”. Foreclosure sales are going to affect the market even if they don’t overwhelm it.
    And face it, Stockton, Phoenix, Las Vegas etc. foreclosures started in small numbers, too. They didn’t stay that way.

  29. Posted by bg

    youre comparing SF and stockton/phoenix/las vegas?

  30. Posted by anonn

    You’re simultaneously saying that what starts as a stream becomes a river, questioning my paraphrasing of EBGuy’s pft-repeated theory (not my own), and comparing SF to Stockton, Phoenix and Vegas. That’s all pretty laughable. As is your usual any more.

  31. Posted by EH

    Oh, I know The Help is doing the shopping, but still…that travel time takes away from cocaine couriering and/or increases the chances that the peeps might have to change a diaper themselves.

  32. Posted by sparky-b

    EH,
    Are they not allowed to grocery shop on Geary or Clement? Is that why it takes an extra hour? Otherwise there are plenty of places to shop nearby.

  33. Posted by crash

    C’mon…it’s St. Francis Wood, not Woods.

  34. Posted by diemos

    Sung to the Melody of the Mr. Ed theme song:
    A comp is a comp, of course, of course,
    And no one can undo a comp of course
    That is, of course, unless the comp shows a decline in Noe.

    Go right to the source and ask the comp
    He’ll give you the answer that you’ll endorse.
    He’s always on a steady course.
    Talk to Mr. Comp.

    Realtors yakkity yak a streak and waste your time of day
    But Mister Comp will never speak unless he has something to say.

    A comp is a comp, of course, of course,
    And this one’ll talk ’til his voice is hoarse.
    You never heard of a declining comp?

    Well listen to this.
    I am Mister Comp.

  35. Posted by sparky-b

    of course it’s not a comp until it’s sold (I’ve been told many times)

  36. Posted by diemos

    Yup, it’s not a comp until it sells. Just amused at how comps are only comps when they say what the bulls want.

  37. Posted by anonn

    Diemos, you’re not willing to concede that it’s necessary to put a fine point on indivicual properties. That’s OK tho, because you’re waiting for the salad days of 2012’s 50% universal price slashing. Therefore nothing you say is grounded by any sort of reality anybody other than you can appreciate. Uninspired ditty tho. Sorry.

  38. Posted by anonn

    83-85 Vicksburg sold today, and it’s roughly the same size, for 1.6M. It also needed work.

  39. Posted by sanfrantim

    Since this has devolved into another discussion of “price collapse” wishes in Noe, here’s a recent Noe “comp” on a true apple (kind of surprised SS did not report on this one):
    1825 Castro, closed 11/17/09 for $2.225m, about 10% above its 10/12/04 post-renovation price of $2.025m. No post-04 permits, per propertyshark.

  40. Posted by Jeremy R

    “Honestly, anonn, do you really think there is such a concept of “critical mass”. Foreclosure sales are going to affect the market even if they don’t overwhelm it.”
    In 2008 I would have agreed with you. 2 trillion committed dollars and one crazy Fed chief later, I am not so sure foreclosures will be a problem.

  41. Posted by anon

    Would it kill Raymond Grinsell to hold a weekend open house for once? This is a property that could benefit from it.

  42. Posted by Auden

    Yes, this is a comp for this little pocket of Noe in 2009. And so is 110 Hoffman which sold for a little under 2 million in August, and 22 Hoffman which sold for 2.21 in April of this year. Prices overall in SF haven’t been down since August as a whole, so this property’s sale price will probably show that there are still “deals” and anomalies in the market.

  43. Posted by NoeValleyJim

    Neither of those are apples, since they were both extensively remodeled between the last purchase and the most recent one. It does give us comps from between 690 and 910/sq ft for that immediate neighborhood.
    For my guesstimate, I used 650 and rounded up a bit. I think my guess is pretty conservative actually, but since others have made negative comments about the layout, I thought it might deserve a discount. I have not seen the place and probably will not, since we are going on vacation, so this a very rough guess.
    anonn, anyone?
    I rememeber when Noe Valley was mostly for people who finally were able to move out of the Mission
    What makes you think it isn’t? Lots of tech hipsters move up the hill when they want to settle down and start a family.Most of them rent, at least for a while, but hasn’t that always been the case in San Francisco?

  44. Posted by Auden

    NVJ— aggregate data is much more useful than apples. What I am interested in, and what future homebuyers should be interested in- is what home values are today and what they will be going forward. SS picked apples are interesting from an anecdotal standpoint, but unless/until their drop is representative of the decline as a whole, they will continue to be just interesting anecdotes.

  45. Posted by tipster

    I fully agree, Auden. As a fellow realtor, I believe people should focus on houses that have been extensively remodled, which was of course, prevalent during the boom, and merely compare the price paid before and after the extensive remodel to identify “values” in a neighborhood.
    For example, one of my clients asked me how home values were doing in one neighborhood. I gave he some “comps” on houses that had been gut remodeled and expanded to nearly twice their size to show them that real estate values were increasing. One seller had paid $1.5M, then invested another million in a rehab. Sold that thing for 2.2M! See, values have increased by 50%, I told my buyer! That happened a lot in one neighborhood, so it really made it look like prices were increasing when in fact they were falling.
    I agree, if we could just get our clients to stop focusing on these irrelevant apples, we could sell a lot more real estate. SS needs to stop publishing all these apples, as there seems to be an almost endless supply of such “anecdotes”. There must be hundreds of these one-off anecdotes, and SS finds them in virtually every neighborhood, making them additionally irrelevant.
    Man, I wish the editor of SS was a fellow realtor like virtually every other real estate blog.

  46. Posted by Auden

    Tipster,
    You write a lot of drivel don’t you. Your post really isn’t worth retorting since there is not a sincere sentence in it.

  47. Posted by Shopper in Noe

    Walked through yesterday. OneEyedMan is right – some pics are clearly really old. The master bedroom shower now has mold so bad that almost all the grout is black. The 5th pic shows it nice and shiny white. (and same on backyard furniture)
    Pros: Nice public areas, great views.
    Cons:
    – Bedrooms. This is really a 1 bdrm with 4 offices/nooks/closets. The 2nd “bdrm” upstairs has no window other than a skylight. The “bdrm” in the front on the main floor has glass french doors to the living room – nice privacy touch. The 2nd “bdrm” in the back has no closet. The “bdrm” downstairs is really a hallway to the backyard, as it has the only interior access to the yard other than a door through the garage.
    – Water damage in bedroom downstairs. Fun for the buyer to figure that out.

  48. Posted by NoeValleyJim

    Now listed as “In Escrow – Firm” on cleanoffer.

  49. Posted by anonn

    Meanwhile on Hoffman a 945K total fixer a block away, with no garage, probably in need of 700 – 800K worth of work, and a backyard completely flanked by dozens of windows from a development above and behind, is probably going to fly into contract within the next week.

  50. Posted by SocketSite

    The sale of 111 Hoffman Avenue closed escrow today with a reported contract price of $1,500,000. That’s 3% over asking but 29% under its sale price in 2005.

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