1335 Fulton Place (at Divisadero) consists of six new condos, three of which are “now available,” and only one of which (#201) is currently listed on the MLS. And although the website for 1335 Fulton Place advertises “starting at $849,000,” we will note that the list price for the aforementioned #201 was just reduced by $54,000 (6.4%) after a little under a month on the market. And it’s now listed at $795,000.
The development features new construction, parking, and a large shared roof deck with elevator access (don’t get us started). And while it might not be the same for all six of the units, do keep in mind that while the property website notes “2 baths,” according to the MLS listing for #201 one of those two baths is actually a “powder room” (i.e., half bath).
UPDATE: And for those of you who don’t bother to peruse the comments: “Heard a rumor that a Bar Crudo will be opening in the area soon. Fingers crossed.”
UPDATE: Feel free to uncross those fingers: “Bar Crudo is opening in the space across from the independent.”
∙ 1335 Fulton Place [1335Fultonplace.com]
∙ Listing: 1335 FULTON ST #201 (2/1.5) – $795,000 [MLS]
880.40 per sq ft to live in the middle of the Western Addition.
Are they people insane? I have bitched about pricign on here before, but I really do not understand this. Who is going to pay this kind of money to live in this neighborhood?
This is Pacific Heights pricing in a crime ridden area. the building is nice, but it just doesn’t make up for the price.
The going rate in this neighborhood is around $550-600/ sq ft. For a nice new construction, i can see that going up to $700/sq ft at the most.
A reasonable price would be around $600K.
I don’t think you’ll ever see brand new 2BR condos at 600K. I also haven’t seen 2BR Pac Heights condos at $800k for a long time. That said, there is no way I’d pay these prices to live at Fulton & Divis.
Ahhh, but it’s not western addition … it’s NoPa (North of Panhandle).
See, now it’s worth 880 a square foot.
kidding aside, the neighborhood has changed dramatically recently. New restaurants, a Pete’s Coffee and a Fallaeti’s (sp?) grocery store are bring in a very different crowd to this area.
Is it worth almost $900 a square foot? It is if someone pays it …
NoPa, WA,…it is where it is, look on a map. And, Spencer, crime is not THAT bad in this area. Not great, but not any worse than most of SF on average. It is a big city, crime is around.
PPSF is high though. Why pay that much when you can get a remodeled Vic or Ed flat in the same area for 600-700 psf?
Area is getting better and better though. Heard a rumor that a Bar Crudo will be opening in the area soon. Fingers crossed.
Yes, this is definitely overpriced for that neighborhood. If they started at around $700 psf, they might get a better response. Per a previously posted comment, you absolutely can find new construction for under $800-$900 per sqft. It’s just not possible in any of the new “luxury” high-rises. In the Western Addition (or NoPa), it’s almost laughable to try to sell this average-looking condo for that price IMHO.
When I moved to SF in 1979, I briefly had an apartment at Turk and Divis until something more permanent came along.
About the only thing I remember is that you had to go all the way to Haight and Divis, or Geary and Divis to buy an SF Chronicle.
Someone correct me, is this the street where everything you own will smell just like the Popeye’s Fried Chicken on the corner?
A lot of the Vics in the neighborhood have gotten some TLC over the past few years. Fulton is looking much less bedraggled than it did even a few years ago.
We live in the area, but closer to Alamo Square. It’s actually a pretty fun area and it’s changing for the better. It’s not Pac Heights, but it’s interesting and diverse. You see more and more families with kids around here. The crime seems comparable to the rest of the City. You can have more of an illusion of safety in other neighborhoods, I guess, but you’re probably not actually any safer.
Do the bay windows have those fakey interior muntins? I didn’t think those were legal in SF.
[Editor’s Note: And in case you’re wondering, “muntins” are those little strips of wood/metal that separate the individual panes of glass in a window.]
“880.40 per sq ft to live in the middle of the Western Addition. . . The going rate in this neighborhood is around $550-600/ sq ft. For a nice new construction, i can see that going up to $700/sq ft at the most.”
Spencer,
Agree completely but this is just one more of many, many examples of the increasing disconnect between pricing of existing housing stock vs. new construction. It is rampant in The City most especially. Would love to see some investigative reporting on why this divide keeps getting bigger!
redseca2, the Popeyes is actually further down at Hayes…
This neighborhood may be making some changes around the edges but honestly the whole area around Divisadero between Geary and Fell is not very desireable. There’s lots of corner liquor stores, check cashing places, and (relatively) open drug dealing at night time. I suggest these units will sit for some time.
This is not Eddy and Divis. Some of you people need to realize there are lots of folks out there who’d rather be just about anywhere than your beloved 94123 (good god I will never understand what people see in the marina). Granted most everything is still overpriced in the city, I think this neighborhood is terrific. And popeye’s is down by Hayes Street, not here.
You’re 1/2 block from one of my favorite rows of victorians (Broderick) and a block and a half away from Alamo Square. NOPA is a cute moniker, but this is a nice neighborhood regardless of what you call it. The locals are no doubt relieved that all the marina types are too scared to visit let alone live there. Too bad that isn’t the case for North Beach as well.
Agreed Kaya.
Oh yeah I forgot to mention the public transport situation…Imagine the joy of catching the 5 Fulton bus if you want to go downtown, or the 24 Divisadero across town. These surely must be among the two worst bus lines in the city.
I have seen no difference in bus lines in this city. Other than some run on electricity and other do not.
The 5 would make it to Kearney St. in app. 20-25 minutes at peak hours from this locale. Not too bad.
Willow, do you even know what you are talking about? Any experience to stand on? [Removed by Editor]
The 5 is fine. Runs frequently. Slow, but all of MUNI is slow. The 24 doesn’t run very often.
Geary to Fell is a pretty broad swath of territory to generalize about. Most of it is fine along Divis, as you go east of there, some parts are dodgy. It’s kind of block-by-block in that area.
This area is particularly nice if you love to clean up human feces and hypodermic needles from your front door and grafitti from your garage everyday. It is also nice if you like to purchase your crack and saturday night special within a block of your home. very convenient.
I’m surprised they are not charging $1000/sq foot for this kind of city convenience.
Craig: I lived a block away from Fulton / Divisadero for 12 months in 03/04 and have friends who still live in the area so I do make it out to NOPA / Western Addition. My experience was quite frankly terrible. I found there were so many quality of life issues in this part of town. (Some which are no different than any other party of the city but many much more pronounced.) In particular the 5 Fulton was excruciating. It was so inconsistent from 7am – 9am M thru F if you wanted to get downtown. The ride might only take 25 minutes if you’re lucky enough to get onto an overcrowed but that’s just where the fun begins…Maybe I was just unlucky but that’s my perception based on my time living in the area. All I can say is I’m glad your experience has been different. (Disclaimer: I have never lived in the Marina or Pacific Heights!)
The street is a little busy, Fulton is wide, great bike path!..
Bar Crudo is opening in the space across from the independent. They’ve started working on it. it was a pizza place for about 2 months..
I really enjoy living here, the only neg is the medicinal mj places on every other corner.
bdb, you are right. From Tablehopper:
“Okay, it’s now time for another installment of my favorite new game: “My ‘Hood is Cooler Than Yours!” NOPA residents, something fishy is moving into the 94417: ~BAR CRUDO~ is opening a second location, hopefully by the first of the year. Color me excited. The restaurant will be opening in the short-lived Amina Pizzeria space, just across the street from the Independent. The 60-seat space will have a mezzanine and long bar where you can savor some foamy goodness off what is sure to be a long list of ales. (The Selvera brothers have a knack for Belgians. Beers, that is.) Since the kitchen is bigger than their slip of a space on Bush Street, look for an expanded and different menu. I’ll release more details, like the name, hours, and menu items as things develop. 655 Divisadero St. at Grove.”
I’m noticing a trend on this site regarding the “desirability” of neighborhoods, and I just happened to be talking with a friend about this last night:
Condo’s in the Western Addition get trashed because of the projects nearby, crime and relative dirtiness/smell of Divis. Lofts in Media Gulch aren’t worth the sq. ft. price because of high crime. A “green” home in the Mission is in a terrible neighborhood full of gangs. Half of Potrero Hill is housing projects that no one wants to live anywhere near. Bayview – no comment needed. Telegraph Hill – who wants to live near all those NIMBYs? Rincon Hill has no services and the Bay Bridge noise. SOMA is full of homeless and very dirty. Sunset and Richmond are just too far out there. Sea Cliff has all that fog. Marina is on landfill that will liquify in an earthquake. Duboce Park even got tagged on here (69 Belcher) as a gross park full of drug dealers and homeless. I tend to agree with ALL of this.
My question: Is there anywhere in SF (other than the obvious Pac Heights/Russian Hill/maybe Noe) that is worth paying ANYTHING for???
“My question: Is there anywhere in SF (other than the obvious Pac Heights/Russian Hill/maybe Noe) that is worth paying ANYTHING for???”
Pacific Heights/ parts of Potrero/ Russian hill/ South Beach/Noe Valley are good neighborhoods. Everything else has turned into a free park and breeding ground for the homeless, drug addicts and petty criminals. I blame newsom and the board or stupidvisors.
Recently I have started stealing the shopping carts and bags of homeless people so they will move on.
rg, in my humble opinion, I think it’s just a reflection that the overall livability of SF is decreasing…for the price you pay to live here. Crime, homelessness, rampant drug use and lack of green space. It’s such a small area, that even in so called good areas, you are not that far from the grime. I live in the TenderNob, and within a few blocks I can be in posh Nob Hill/Pac Heights, or in the heart of TL and Western Addition.
Rg and [Spencer],
It sounds like you need to move to the suburbs. Wake up. This is a big city with big city problems. What city doesn’t have its share of the homeless and crime? Get used to it or move to the Peninsula.
Craig, I have to agree with Willow on the 5 Fulton bus. I’ve lived in San Francisco for awhile, of which 3 years I took the 5 Fulton to and from work everyday, and it was *by far* the worst bus line ever. I called it the “crazy/smelly” bus, because it never failed that someone crazy or smelly would get on.
And the rush hours were horrendous — good luck trying to get on the first bus that comes to your stop after the Divis. Have YOU ridden that bus during rush hour? Or regularly? Honestly, I’ve never spoken to a single person who used to commute regularly on the 5 Fulton who hadn’t said it was near the bottom of the heap in terms of bus lines in the city. Also, my friend got mugged at the Fillmore bus stop on the Fulton line at 8:30 in the morning about two years ago.
“My question: Is there anywhere in SF (other than the obvious Pac Heights/Russian Hill/maybe Noe) that is worth paying ANYTHING for???”
This reminds me of a friend who keeps emailing about how he is going to move back here and then after coming for a visit is reminded of the real situation of the city vs. the fantasy memory of this place he keeps in his memory. He decides he likes where he is now better and is “cured” for another year from San Francisco longing.
As for this part of Divisadaro, at these prices what is the upside?
No such problems on Chestnut in the 94123…one or two bums but they’re pretty classy looking and don’t mind diving for day old sushi. And the women are great looking, though a little high maintenance. Biggest neighborhood problem is getting run down by a Ranger Rover driver jacked up on a triple espresso…
Well, MUNI is just terrible, period. I lived on McAllister for 3 years (2000-2003) and took the 5 downtown. Indeed there were those days during rush hour where no bus would come for 20 minutes and then 3 passed you because they were too full. However, it didn’t happen often, and it happens on every other bus line with a discernable rush hour… honestly, this one’s far from worst.
My least favorite part of the hood was the lack of residential parking permits. I’d rather try to find parking in *any* other neighborhood than here.
But back to the pricing here: I’m no data miner for these things, but aren’t comparable units in Marina and Pacific Whites more in the $1000/sf range?
I like how they include a pic of the Painted Ladies in the MLS listing for this. As if this is the view from the bedroom or something.
Why is new construction always soooo much more per square foot than existing inventory?
I’m a value hunter and see no reason to spend so much more for new construction when existing inventory is so much cheaper. The new will eventually become old after all.
Comps in this area, including existing inventory, would indicate $700 psf max, more likely $650ish.
I especially like the line many realtors will try to feed you when asked why the price psf is so high on properties like this (ie new). “The old victorians and edwardians have a lot of square feet, but where is it all? Every inch in this place is usable, so it is a better value.” Despite asking 200-300 bucks more per sq ft? I don’t think so.
my limited experiences with the 5 fulton involved a lady screaming at people to get off the bus, another time with someone drunk and vomiting at 9am, once with several teenagers tagging the bus, and a few more with the bus driver stopping the bus and asking some people to get off. but other than that, i’m sure the 5 is fine. although i will say that my co-worker started taking the 21 hayes because she couldn’t deal with the 5 anymore.
as for the neighborhood, it’s fine west of alamo square park. start going east, and it’s a little sketchy. but it seems like the area is filled with hipsters rubbing shoulders with the drug-dealers. people who can afford to buy a $800K house for $880/sq ft – well, i can’t exactly see them living in that area.
I lived in the Western Addition from 1996-2004 in various apartments. I love the neighborhood and wish I still lived there. While I’m relatively close now (in the mid-Haight) I would still rather be down off of Divis any day of the week. Up until about 2 years ago, I never saw homeless people in the area (unlike the people I wake up to in Buena Vista Park and along Haight that I live with now) and the commercial offerings in the neighborhood have gotten better and better over time.
I’ve always liked that the neighborhood felt like a community and was also very diverse. Yes, there are projects nearby. There are projects nearby just about every neighborhood in SF unless you sequester yourself in the boring marina/pac heights. You learn to live with it and look out for yourself.
As for this particular building – I actually noticed a sign in the window a few weeks ago with a phone number to call about leasing, so I made the assumption these were being built as rentals. It would be interesting to see what the deal is with that. Either way, yeah the cost to buy is high (isn’t it everywhere?) and I’m sure it’s way out of my league to rent. But I wouldn’t say it’s a completely crappy location, especially compared to those SFHs they build in the middle of the Eddy projects for the same price as these.
Also, I think the trasportation is actually pretty decent around there. You dont just have the 5 and 24 to pick from, you know. It’s not that difficult to walk 2 blocks to Hayes for the 21, Ellis for the 31, or *gasp*! down to Geary to catch the 38, which on the limited can get you to Union Square in 4 stops.
where in the city are there cheaper new developments? i have yet to see two bedrooms below $750k, in any neighborhood.
In regards to how every neighborhood in SF is picked apart and critisized on this Site:
The big difference now for me is that 10 years ago if the units in this building had come up for sale in the same state of (adjusted for the time) stylish fix-up, they would be starting in the mid $200’s; essentially a third or less of what they want today. While my salary, which is well above average, has yet to double from 10 years ago.
You could put up with a lot in the hood where your $250K condo is located that you would deem un-acceptable where your $800K condo is.
I see fake muntins and I wonder what else is fake or cheap about a building. Looking at the website, Pic #1 facade shows muntins, Pic #2 interior shows no muntins. Rest of interior looks nicely detailed. Sorry, too late, I don’t trust the building.
From http://www.builderswebsource.com/buildingadream/windowsdoors.htm:
“Some aluminum frame windows also offer muntins between panes of glass, but these are permanently sealed and look more like white or bronze tape placed in a grid configuration between the glass. They look like a cheap imitation of the real thing. I’ve noticed that this type of window has become popular in many new spec homes here in the Bay Area. I suspect that this type of window will have a “dated” look in the future and will go the way of the silver anodized aluminum frame window. If you’re building for yourself, by all means budget in enough for decent windows and don’t put in something that looks cheap and downright ugly.”
Agreed about the 38X. Take the 38X and tell yourself you live in Anza Vista.
Redseca, more like 20 years back for your price estimates. Otherwise totally agree.
Sally Tomato: SF transport is unreliable all round but the buses available along Divisadero in WA / NOPA seem to be worse even by Muni’s low standards. Agreed, the 31 & 39 are marginally better than the 5. (Although schlepping all the way to Geary is not convenient.) I found the 21 Hayes “experience” to simply be the 5 Fulton in disguise. Not to be entirely disparaging, the area is diverse and I did like having Alamo Square close by. The Panhandle is right around the corner too but alas the last time I was there it too seemed fairly uninviting…
“I took the 5 Fulton to and from work everyday, and it was *by far* the worst bus line ever. I called it the “crazy/smelly” bus, because it never failed that someone crazy or smelly would get on.”
“Agreed, the 31 & 39 are marginally better than the 5.”
Some people obviously haven’t been on the 31-Balboa in the middle of the day. Makes the 5-Fulton look staid by comparison.
Having lived in the area 2000-2005, I felt that the area was improving at a steady pace until the Medical Marijuana laws were passed here in SF. Now you find an MCD on every other corner in District 5, with its resulting problems from “non-medical” users. That was a big mistake.
Good starter units, but as already mentioned if you are starting out ppsf is crazy and if you are starting out, south beach/mission bay seems like a much better neighborhood bet?
You couldn’t pay me enough to live in South Beach. Then again, I bought on my favorite block in the city, which happens to be right around the corner from Duboce Park (you know, that “gross park full of homeless people and drug dealers”– tell that to the happy yuppies walking their dogs!). All I can say is that people want different things from their neighborhoods. Some people want socioeconomic diversity and cool restaurants. Other want the suburbs in the city. Which kind of person are you?
the Muni sucks thing is kind of moot at this point (and I guess getting more off topic), but I prefer the 5,21,31, and 38 to the incredibly dirty, smelly, and even more inefficient Haight Street buses I now take. Oh yeah, and standing downhill in heels in stopped traffic for an extra 15 minutes while I wait for cars to turn right onto Octavia from Page every day isn’t a picnic either. Boohoo for me.
Anyway, I do totally agree with Henry about the pot clubs adversly affecting the area though. It’s too bad but hopefully bringing in more useful commercial business into the area (and not dollar stores, bar stool stores, or nail salons) will eventually change all that.
“Why is new construction always soooo much more per square foot than existing inventory?
I’m a value hunter and see no reason to spend so much more for new construction when existing inventory is so much cheaper. The new will eventually become old after all.”
Agreed Craig — but evidently there are too few of us out there and too many who buy into the marketing claims of developers of new product. Otherwise the supply of existing properties would quickly be exhausted as value oriented buyers balk at huge markups on new construction. Anyone have any good near comps that effectively illustrate just how overpriced this new construction project is relative to existing for sale in the ‘hood?
I’ve lived in this area since 2003 and these comments about quality of life must be from people who don’t understand the gentrification process nor city life in general. But I do agree this price per square is high for such cookie cutter units.
“Why is new construction always soooo much more per square foot than existing inventory?
I’m a value hunter and see no reason to spend so much more for new construction when existing inventory is so much cheaper. The new will eventually become old after all.”
Well when you factor in the ‘deferred’ maintenance costs, things like update seismic and fire safety, new energy-efficient appliances, insulation, and non-toxic finishes – I can certainly see the appeal of paying a premium for a place should hold up well in an earthquake, it’s candy-coated with asbestos, and has updated systems. But maybe that’s just me.
Says the woman who is now off to scour the internet so I can replace my 25 year old dishwasher that died today.
It’s always appeared to me that new construction drives the comps, and not the other way around. However, when developers build at non-prime locations and everything goes right (no defects, etc…) they are making a huge profit. I’d bet that the developer of these units will make 50% profit at these prices, so even if the units are reduced some the developer still makes a killing.
Geez, all you 5-Fulton whiners clearly have not tried commuting on the 19-Polk. I did that for the better part of a year, and I have yet to find its equal (in terms of unsavory characters) on any other MUNI line.
My wife and I bought 1 year ago near this location, around the corner on Broderick. Not in a new construction building mind you. We love the neighborhood for so many reasons. Everyone says it has changed so much over the past several years, and if true, I would think for the better. Granted dollar stores still keep popping up and some less desirable businesses are around, but I rarely encounter homeless folk in our hood and feel relatively safe walking around day and night. We value the diversity, the scale, location and low-key attitude in this area. We both commute to work on our bikes and take the bus occasionally on rainy days. The 5 Fulton is crowded but no more ‘smelly’ or ‘crazy’ than many other bus lines in the city. I used to live in Pacific Heights and take the 3 or the 1 to work. Those lines were even more crowded sometimes than the 5. And the 5 is only one of the many bus options to this location. 21 and 31 also work well as alternatives. That said, the price for these units does seem high and I am not enamored with the architecture of this building. In fact, the repeating bays on the facade are really unfortunate. It is beyond me why ‘new’ construction at many scales in the city so often references historic precedent is such unfortunate and convoluted ways. If the building is NEW why not use that to your advantage to build a structure that belongs in 2007 not in 1907?
Very interesting thread!
Regarding this neighborhood specifically it seems like things have been getting better over time, but it still has a sketchier feel than a lot of other places. There are a lot of hansome older buildings in and around the Western Addition.
The 24 Divis bus in infamous for fights between gay men and young hoodlums. Stabbings are not that uncommon, go look it up in the records. Here was one particularly bad incident when the bus got surrounded and stopped by a crowd in the Castro while wayward youth inside slashed at anyone who got too close from the open windows of the bus. Ended up being just another gay guy getting stabbed story, I guess. Why should straight people even notice this kind of stuff? I’m still not sure how to answer that one.
That is a good transition to talking about neighborhoods. Rather than all neighborhoods being flawed, it is better to take the lesson that all neighborhoods have a range of qualities that various people interpret differently. Many of the social groups in and around the Western Addition have a particular disdain for gay men who are prominent now in the Castro and increasingly in the Haight and Buena Vista. My own favorite haunt is still SOMA, but gentrification has changed it hugely over the last decade or so, not all for the better.
Fake muntins! Gakk! Why muntins at all? We haven’t had any need for them for at least two centuries now.
New construction in recent times has been heavily oriented toward consumers who want luxury properties that maximize their dollars. Cost efficient “expansion mansions” that dominated markets long, long ago are hardly ever delivered by builders in the Bay Area anymore. Maybe changing conditions will change that.