“The stage is set, and a chic stage it is: Black pavers ripple across a former alleyway with an oak tree on one end, six ginkgoes on the other and a patch of dark spiky grasses in between.
But plazas must be judged by how they function, not how they look – and the artsy design of the Mint Plaza is no guarantee of long-term success.
Instead, the space opening Friday next to San Francisco’s Old Mint is a gamble. It’s a developer’s wager that the landscape south of Market Street will continue to evolve, and a bet that a stylish community is waiting to emerge and stake a claim.”
[Editor’s Note: And for the record, we’re at better than even money.]
∙ Builder bets newly minted plaza in San Francisco will be an oasis [SFGate]
better than even money for sure. this is going to be a home run as it is adjacent to the mall and will be an enclave with restaurants, live-work units, and great condos. the real question in my mind is whether mint plaza’s success will spread beyond its immediate borders.
It’s a few years away, but imagine when the US Mint is up and running as a museum and the Hearst parcels are redeveloped. This area is going to be very exciting to watch.
It will have its best chance to be a home run if folks who move into those condos adopt responsibility for maintaining the plaza instead of expecting others to do it for them. I’ll keep my fingers crossed. 🙂
I’m hoping for success, but it has an uphill battle. How to do keep the area accessible and yet not allow the homeless to settle in? Union Square seems to do a pretty good job of that, Hallidie Plaza…not so much.
Airhorns.
South of Market is going to be chalk full of little parks and commons before too long. What an improvement.
I work right across the street at the Chronicle. Mint Plaza will be filled with bums in no time at all.
I’m with Sharky. It’d sure be nice to be wrong, but if this plaza succeeds, it will do so a few years down the line, after more of the neighborhood comes up.
I’m glad that some people are optimistic. I, however, wonder how they will keep it livable. Are they going to have security to roust the homeless who would inevitably come to camp out there? Are they going to house it down every morning so that it doesn’t smell like the toilet that it will undoubtedly become?
Is this public space that belongs to the city, or is it privately owned now?
I commend the visionaries who take small steps such as these to help improve an area. It is indeed one small step and to see improvement over time it will require many more.
Hopefully Mint Plaza will add some momentum or “mass” to the snowball that is forming in this part of the city. I think this area has a bright future but I personally don’t think it’s all that bad right now.
The essential truth of gentrification is that money cures all.
Add a bunch of attractive and well-planned housing units with an average price in the neighborhood of $1M, throw in some rentals going for $3 – $5K/month, fold in some thriving restaurants… and the quasi-human filth don’t stand a chance. Affluent residents and successful business owners will absolutely not stand for it. Because these are the people who actually drive progress (unlike “progressives”, who create nothing).
Prediction? Knockout success.
The beauty of gentrification is that you can generate disproportionate returns by demonstrating a bit of faith. You can also be a participant in making SF a better place to work and live.
Its looks great—until Gavin walks from the podium…and the space fills with the homeless. Hopefully there’s a policing plan and can some high-pressure cleaners and help this public space begin a trend to turn around our tattered town.
In response to Brett, this is a privately-owned and maintained space, from what I understand, but will be open to the public 24/7. One hopes that perhaps private ownership will allow the use of somewhat “firmer” measures to keep it from becoming a homeless encampment.
Today’s Chronicle article has more details on the space.
Since this is private space, if they can afford to have a pinkerton with a billy club handy 24/7 to beat the homeless senseless the space will flourish.
The park on the embarcadero at battery and filbert is always a delight because it is private property and there is 24/7 security. The homeless can barely wander in and plop down before they are moved on. Maybe we should privatize the whole city.
This beautiful open space will be a spectacular success — for homeless bums. Just like the rest of San Francisco. A security guard with a club won’t be able to withstand the homeless zombie onslaught.
the plaza has essentially been open for a month or so, and no encampments during that time. I think it is being run by a non-profit, but given to the city. Once the cafes open, you’ll add more interested parties to the mix, and that should help as well. If you think the business owners and the new community of renters and owners are going to let thing slip, I doubt it.
“The park on the embarcadero at battery and filbert is always a delight because it is private property and there is 24/7 security…”
Same goes for the beautiful park at the Lucas complex in the Presidio. It’s constantly patrolled and meticulously maintained, and needless to say, there are no homeless encampments. The contrast with city-run public spaces couldn’t be more stark.
it looks nice now, but wait six months from now, see if the old security guard will be chasing guys out of the area. he wont go to far, i seen a few people after a concert urinating right across from this so called plaza, all he did was YELL and throw a rock LOL. go to the other end of the alley, crackheads and homeless litter the street… and i go to “the mezzanine” every other week or so… i believe the same people that are behind the new condos also run “mezzanine”. i’ve visited family on natoma in the eighties as a youngster, i worked @ a dot com on stevenson for the past seven years, these alleys will always be the same, yall folks can keep dreaming…
It’ll definitely help when the Old Mint is up and runnning as the SF History Museum and attracting visitors – more good activity to crowd out the unsavory stuff.
What is wrong with you people?
“… crackheads and homeless litter the street”
“… homeless zombie onslaught”
“… quasi-human filth”
That is nauseating. You are speaking about human beings, people who live in your community. They are poor, they are not animals. Homeless is an adjective, it is not a noun. Say it with me: they are human beings. The number one cause of bankruptcy in the US, for those who don’t know, is medical emergencies.
Public spaces don’t fail because “quasi-human filth” come in, but because the spaces are poorly designed and are unwelcoming to ALL people. UN Plaza is a wonderful place on the days when the Farmer’s Market is there because the plaza becomes welcoming to the WHOLE neighborhood. There are no fewer homeless people there on market days. There is just a reason for other people to go.
This plaza will be a successs if and only if EVERYONE feels welcome there. It might be enough to have the museum there and the mall there.
But, as was pointed out in the comments, if the people who live near there believe it is someone else’s responsibility to keep the plaza welcoming and busy (outsourcing it to pinkerton’s with billy clubs is not very welcoming) it will fail.
And if you think progressives create nothing of value, why not move to Dallas or Phoenix or some other hideous sprawl filled hell hole with nothing but the glorious emptiness of street after street of chain restaraunts. No Quasi-human filth there!
“And if you think progressives create nothing of value, why not move to Dallas or Phoenix or some other hideous sprawl filled hell hole with nothing but the glorious emptiness of street after street of chain restaraunts. No Quasi-human filth there!”
Oh please – that’s a false dichotomy if I’ve ever seen one. There are any number of politically liberal, sophisticated, diverse cities all across the country that have enough self-respect and civic pride to not permit their streets to become sewers; they don’t permit the most pathological, dysfunctional elements of society to set a least common denominator of acceptable public behavior. San Francisco is in a sad, pathetic class by itself.
“… homeless zombie onslaught”
great wording
that sounds like marc soloman dribble. i thought we kicked his worthless ass to curb on this blog?
radioradio –
As the author of a great deal of that which you find so offensive, thank you for providing the boilerplate (and wholly inaccurate) counterpoint.
You’ll note that I didn’t say “homeless”. True homelessness is a tragic issue that needs to be addressed. Unfortunately for all, SF doesn’t really have a “homeless problem”, per se. It has a “quasi-human filth problem”. Drug-addled ne’er do wells from around the world flock here because of people like you.
Spending all day urinating and defecating in the street, yelling to yourself, stealing, passing out and being a general nuisance is NOT a “poverty” issue. It’s a chronic alcoholism and drug abuse issue. Defending them with “poverty is not a crime” drivel is a disservice to all thinking San Franciscans.
Anybody can make fun of Dallas and Phoenix — Please do something innovative and tell me how NYC is a boring hellhole because they lack a human filth problem.
As I said: Mint Plaza will be a success because people who care enough to contribute will make it so, and the quasi-human filth will quickly learn to ply their trade elsewhere.
I like Phoenix.
I have lived in other large cities (Boston, Chicago, and London) and I have never seen the urination and defecation problem that San Franicsco has. San Francisco is not the only “world class” city on the planet, and if we don’t all join in to fix this mess, we may find that we are not all living in the desirable place we all keep telling eachother that we live in.
i had an interesting conversation with a local homeless guy in my hood just the other day. he was upset at another homeless guy for crapping in public and ruining the bathroom that used to be open for them. he wanted to make a citizens arrest of this crazy guy when he found him. it would be nice to see these folks start policing themselves. maybe we could find a way to empower that. get the worst off the street.
The homeless industry promulgates the falsehood that the typical homeless individual in SF is Joe Average who lost his or her job and can’t pay the rent. But the reality is obvious for anyone with two eyes, two ears, and a nose: SF homelessness is overwhelmingly about substance abuse and mental illness. Most SF homeless are broken, dysfunctional people, frequently lured here from elsewhere by our generous social services and lax law enforcement, and will never lead any kind of independent life. That reality has to be faced squarely.
First off, I’m not Marc Solomon, not sure who he was or is and nice to know you solve your disagreements by metaphorically kicking people’s asses. Works in Iraq!
James:
Calling something “boilerplate” is not the same thing as rebutting or refuting what I wrote. Sticks and stones. My assertion was this: public spaces live or die by how welcoming they are to all people, not how compeletly they keep undesirables out.
you wrote:
YOU’LL NOTE THAT I DIDN’T SAY “HOMELESS”. TRUE HOMELESSNESS IS A TRAGIC ISSUE THAT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED. UNFORTUNATELY FOR ALL, SF DOESN’T REALLY HAVE A “HOMELESS PROBLEM”, PER SE. IT HAS A “QUASI-HUMAN FILTH PROBLEM”.
As I said, they are not quasi-human filth. They are 100% human beings. You can simultaneously say they make life more difficult for the rest of us AND show the decency to acknowledge their humanity. Moving on. With the deft use of punctuation you can separate the homeless “problem” from the addiction problem. You used a period. Bravo. In real life, homelessness, addiction and poverty are much harder to separate. Ask Mayor Newsom. Or any other big city mayor. Easy with grammar, hard in real life. So who is deserving and who quasi-human? Do you indicate with a thumbs up thumbs down?
DRUG-ADDLED NE’ER DO WELLS FROM AROUND THE WORLD FLOCK HERE BECAUSE OF PEOPLE LIKE YOU.
Me? What is a person like me like? How is that we are so magnetic to drug addicts? Seriously. Which people in San Francisco are eager to have the destitute killing themselves in the street? Chris Daly? Bleeding heart liberals who cry when they see someone wearing fur want to surround themselves with alcoholics and heroin fiends nodding off in the street? What?! Does this make sense to anyone? We may not want to spend tens of thousands of dollars a year cycling them through the criminal justice system, but that hardly makes us “inviting” Rehab programs and supportive housing work better than prison and cost a lot less. But they are not 100% effective. Not even close sadly. Is this what you mean by inventing? Was Willie Brown’s “plan” better? Reagan’s?
SPENDING ALL DAY URINATING AND DEFECATING IN THE STREET, YELLING TO YOURSELF, STEALING, PASSING OUT AND BEING A GENERAL NUISANCE IS NOT A “POVERTY” ISSUE. IT’S A CHRONIC ALCOHOLISM AND DRUG ABUSE ISSUE.
It sure is. We agree! And a mental health issue. So how do Pinkerton guards with billy clubs solve that problem? Sigh. It can usually hide the problem, but it doesn’t ever really solve it. So, do you want to hide the problem, solve the problem, or were you just kidding that this was “a tragic issue” when really it was just THEIR problem and a nuisance. Is the problem their poverty, their illness and how we could heal them and our community or is the problem having to look at some of the messes we make in our society?
DEFENDING THEM WITH “POVERTY IS NOT A CRIME” DRIVEL IS A DISSERVICE TO ALL THINKING SAN FRANCISCANS.
Anaotole France said it better than I ever could, “The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread.” Seems to me most San Franciscans don’t blame poor people for their poverty, don’t blame victims of violence for the violence and are eager to help them live a meaningful life.
HOW NYC IS A BORING HELLHOLE BECAUSE THEY LACK A HUMAN FILTH PROBLEM.
New York is clean? New York has no poverty that affects the quality of life of residents’ lives? New York has no mentally ill people who defecate in the streets and overdose on drugs? Are you talking about New York or just the Plaza? Get out of mid-town Manattan next time you’re there. You’re also asking the wrong question. I was responding to quakey b who said progressives make nothing. Last I checked New York was -at least politically- not voting for George Bush.
AS I SAID: MINT PLAZA WILL BE A SUCCESS BECAUSE PEOPLE WHO CARE ENOUGH TO CONTRIBUTE WILL MAKE IT SO, AND THE QUASI-HUMAN FILTH WILL QUICKLY LEARN TO PLY THEIR TRADE ELSEWHERE.
As I said, this Plaza will be a success IF people who care enough to contribute will make it so, but I added IF they make it welcoming. All people like going places filled with crowds and life. No one but the lost, addled and those with nowhere else to go hang out in places filled with bored security guards with nightsticks.
I agree with anonfedup on the urination and defecation.
Living on the 9th floor of a high rise on Van Ness, evertime I open the window, I get this strange foul smell that is always subtly different, because everytime it is the smell of the mixture of various homless persons’ urine or feces that rises in the heat and makes its way into our buildings on the higher floors.
Unless they have security guards (who are themselves also not homeless or druggies) patrol the courtyard, Mint Plaza is destined to provide another new haven for the homeless druggies and psyches on meds.
… And add to that new urine and feces combos that will rise up and enter the homes of the Mint Plaza residents.
It doesn’t matter that Newsom inaugurated the building. Fact remains, we have a homeless problem and drug problem that everyone is ignoring…
great post radio. sorry i accused you of being marc soloman. nyc has done something we cannot, shipped all their homeless off the island at 4am in buses to the boroughs. they did this since their methodone clinics and half way houses, shelters and pot clubs, etc were in the boroughs. we have all of these things centrally located around civic center and union square. not smart. if we ever want to boot these worthless fucks, we need to close down all the sf located social services and move them to a place like treasure island. we need to give them one way transit to the island but not let them come back.
as for cheaper to address them on the street vs jail, i totally disagree! we spend 160mm a year in this town on the several thousand homeless. it costs 29k/year to house a criminal. do the math! we are literally pissing away millions we could save and/or spend better on things like education if we just arrested them all. let them sober up and then tell us when they feel ready to contribute to society. until the, let them rot in jail.