2200 Mission: Rendering
The on again, off again, on again construction at the corner of Mission and 18th is finally close to completion as twenty-three new condominiums at 2200 Mission have officially hit the market as a mix of one, two, three and four bedroom units atop a new market.
2200 Mission: Four Bedroom Floor Plan
We can’t comment on the quality as we haven’t yet taken a tour. And while we’re not giving our stamp of approval on the four bedroom floor plan, it is a four-bedroom with parking in San Francisco priced at $674,000. One bedrooms with parking starting at $449,000.
2200 Mission [2200mission.com]
∙ Listing: 2200 Mission #303 (4/2) – $674,000 [MLS]
∙ Listing: 2200 Mission #402 (1/1) – $449,000 [MLS]
Full Disclosure: The marketing company for 2200 Mission currently advertises on SocketSite but played no part in post.

58 thoughts on “2200 Mission: 23 New Condos (Finally) On The Market In The Mission”
  1. Wow, this is exactly the type housing that we were talking about a few weeks ago in another thread – regular housing for regular people.
    Not my cup of tea, personally, but I wish that we could get another 300 or so buildings like this.

  2. I agree with Brutus – it’s a welcome move in the right direction but the high HOAs may push it out of the realm of regular people.

  3. A 3 or 4-bdroom place is a family-first action, and a welcome relief from the endless miniscule yuppy cubbies which contribute to SF’s transience. A grown-up settled city builds large apartments for families. Options of large 3/4 bdroom apartment recognizes that we have children (imagine that!) and that SF is not just a transitional point on the way to to Pleasanton or Pleasant valley when the kids start 1st grade.(We’re not going).
    More please (and taller would be um, brilliant).

  4. Neither master bedroom (BR1 or BR2) has its own bath, yet the smallest bedroom (BR #4) does?
    It may seem a more-accessible price point, but 511/month HOA for a 4-story building? I wonder if this is the new game in town — “lower” prices, with jacked up HOA…

  5. The relatively high HOAs may be a function of two things; (1) a realistic budget that includes reserves, (2) the limited number of units.

  6. @dub dub
    The first thing I noticed is that #4 appears to be the master, but is likely to be the loudest of bedrooms, due to the proximity to all of the common space. This wouldn’t matter if #1 & #3 are full of your children, and #2 were your office, but if you had roommates, it would be annoying to have the private bathroom and the noise. #2 is the best of the 4.
    It also looks like they put in a bar in the kitchen that faces the door instead of the common space, and stuck the oven right in front of it. I would have liked to rotate the kitchen 180 degrees and put it in the upper left corner of the ‘dining room’. That way the bar would face outward into the common space, and the living room and dining room would be somewhat visually split instead of just one looooong room, which is hard to decorate, in my humble opinion. (note that moving the kitchen might make plumbing it difficult, but I bet the left edge of the entire dining room is a plumbed wall, as there is another bathroom just above the one pictured, in the adjoining apartment.)

  7. Actually, my mistake. It’s not a bar, it’s a fully enclosed wall. (Should have looked at the pictures first). Still, I like my idea better. Also, $500/mo for HOA seems fairly high based on our own TIC’s budget, especially because that doesn’t include property taxes. There may be a significantly higher amount of common/shared space, though.
    1 parking space, side-by-side, though!

  8. this building should really be rental, particularly given its location. I’m a mission lover, but I wouldn’t buy right on Mission itself. Glad it got built, and I’m looking forward to the market opening. But there were a lot of design decisions which could’ve been better, IMHO.

  9. That building is only an improvement because anything is an improvement in the 16th — 19th corridor of Mission. Its ugly, all painted the same hideous beige, without greenery of any note, and will soon be perched above a notoriously smelly grocery with dumpster full of rotting foodstuff. Get real people.

  10. i’m so disappointed with how this building came out aesthetically. The exterior has no dimension at all. It looks like they just hosed down cheap stucco with beige paint.
    The projects down the street are a million times more interesting and better built. what a miss!

  11. We dont need another 300 of these – we need another 3000 – but sorry – any parking needs to be underground.
    And to the weiner enthusiast who is complaining about it being 5 stories – we arent manhattan but we are one of the most dense cities in the US.
    It’s time new construction started reflecting that history.

  12. This is the worst area of the Mission and ranks right up there with the worst in the City. I used to live just down the street and the endless parade of homeless folks, screaming and hollering at night with their clanging shopping carts, shooting up and smoking crack, and projectile diarrehea-ing in your path (I really saw this) really wears on you after a while as does stepping over needles and used condoms in just about any alley or nook and cranny you can imagine (we even found some in our backyard once along with some $1 half-eaten chow mein in a to-go container, charming). I welcome the relatively affordable units, but I wouldn’t be surprised if this flipped back to rental which is what was originally planned.

  13. It looks like it belongs in Montevideo, Uruguay. It’s one step above ’50s Soviet bloc housing. And the interior layout? It’s just wrong.

  14. 4BR ?? What ! ?? Didn’t the developer get the memo that no families want to live in SF ?
    Kidding aside, yes this is a gnarly neighborhood but a great way to fix that is to develop like this and bring normal wage earning folks onto the street. The first pioneers face a struggle for sure but having eyes on the problems will bring pressure to resolve them.

  15. The website for this building includes a link to a BMR application on the opening page.
    What percent of this will be BMR?
    I wonder how much less expensive the units would be if the government didn’t force the “market rate” purchasers to subsidize the BMR folks?
    Rather than force private parties to bear the cost of foolish government priorities, why not directly pay the BMR folks monthly (or award them downpayments) from the government, so they can live there? At least that way, these regulatory distortions of pricing and capital allocation decisions would at least be out in the open, so that (presumably) at least some segment of the voting sheeple could examine the expenditures and try to figure out if this is what we want government to be doing?

  16. A good step in the right direction. It’s not yet affordable to median income families but at 500-600/sf we’re getting closer to reasonable prices. I can see a decent hard working middle class couple raising kids in this 4/2. You’ll have to race to Dolores Park 3 big blocks up 18th for a bit of greenery though and there’s the issue of the skid row experience you get from there to 14th raised by Jake. On the flip side your expenses will be smaller than in many other nabes. Cheap produce around the BART station for those not too picky but no real supermarket/grocery though there are many substitutes around with the discount stores. And then there’s Thrift Town. Yeah!
    It will be interesting to see the final floor plans. This one looks a bit odd.

  17. rr, I agree with your idea that the kitchen would be better where the dining is, with a bar or island to the living. Then you could also move the bedroom 4 private bath back a bit toward the entry and still have a reasonable dining space there, and get a bigger bedroom 4 as a master bedroom. The way the plan is rendered, it looks like a queen bed would swamp bedroom 4. Lots of other improvements could be made to the plan, but I agree with other posters that the exterior design is a shame.

  18. I suspect that the HOA fees on this include earthquake insurance, but I could be wrong. If anyone goes to look at them, please post and let us know. As for the cost, these are priced from around $475 to $575 per sqft. That’s not much lower than a new condo would have gone for in this neighborhood a couple of years ago honestly, but I guess it’s good that many of your perceive it as a value.

  19. Lance, I think it only includes water/gas/exterior maintenance i.e. HOA basics. Having said that, I actually don’t think the HOA fees are all that high, at least not for a 4 bedroom 1400 sf unit. My guess is that it’s to build up the reserves and with that nice flat light colored surface at a prominent corner, they’re definetely going to need to adequetly fund exterior maintenance to keep the taggers at bay.
    SanFronzi, I agree with you that the area also has some awesome pluses as you mention. I live in Pac Heights now and although it’s nice to have clean streets and bay views, oh how I miss burritos and Bi-Rite! It’s really just that one section of Mission, between 16th and 18th, that’s awful. Outside of that, it’s an amazingly vibrant neighborhood with a bit of sketch here and there.

  20. A shame that the most prominent part of the exterior is also the worst, most bland feature. Just making that curved surface a tiny bit interesting would have made a big difference. And how about using an accent color?

  21. This is an awesome location for kids, with plenty of recreational options, after-school communities, and future employment availability.
    And, with only $120k down and reasonable monthly payments of $4k per month, I know plenty of middle class families who will be all over this place.

  22. “It looks like it belongs in Montevideo, Uruguay. It’s one step above ’50s Soviet bloc housing. And the interior layout? It’s just wrong.”
    Not sure all bad.
    It’s deco meets intl. style, Tel Aviv I’m thinking — not bad for an area that has so much deco and an intl feel. Now, if it’s stucco-sprayed plywood don’t get me started. And yes, off white would give it a lift (tho resist the roof-top palms).

  23. It’s really just that one section of Mission, between 16th and 18th, that’s awful
    i might extend that to between 16h and 20th. maybe I’ll give you 19th.
    But I recently walked along Mission from 20th to 16th at 445am on an early Wednesday morning and it was horrific.
    it was so bad that I actually walked down the middle of the street (along the yellow lines) to not be on the sidewalk.
    I don’t ever recall Mission being THAT bad… but it was bad. It’s one of the very few times I’ve ever been afraid in the city. And I grew up in the Tenderloin in the 70’s.

  24. Rather than force private parties to bear the cost of foolish government priorities, why not directly pay the BMR folks monthly (or award them downpayments) from the government, so they can live there? At least that way, these regulatory distortions of pricing and capital allocation decisions would at least be out in the open, so that (presumably) at least some segment of the voting sheeple could examine the expenditures and try to figure out if this is what we want government to be doing?
    Satchel, you know we can’t do that! If we keep it the way that it is, it costs government nothing, and we can continue to believe that we’re simply taking money from evil, greedy developers.
    I assume this place is subject to 15% BMR, meaning 3 or 4 units (I think three, because I think you get to round down, but I’m not sure).

  25. I walk up and down mission in that area all the time. Most of the fun stuff is one block up on Valencia, but still, it’s not so scary you’re in fear, most of the time.
    I did have one guy bite my neck tenderly while I was waiting for a bus on 16th street @mission once, though. That wasn’t pleasant. I wanted to clock him, but wanted to hold on to my briefcase more, and was afraid he’d just pick it up and run away…

  26. I’d extend it too all the way to Duboce/13th. The roughest spot is from 16th to 15th where you got people lining up for food or something close to the H&R Block. Park you car there at night and it will reek of urine in the morning.

  27. Chinese market below coming in
    Surprised by the amount of parking that there appears to be. I guess some is for the retail

  28. This building could have been such a great aesthetic anchor on that corner, but man is it ugly!
    Anyone know what’s up with the much nicer looking new construction just around the corner (almost) at 20th & San Carlos?

  29. You’re right, Brutus 🙂
    As you can no doubt tell from my posts over the past year, I am very worried about an activist, regulatory government pursuing all sorts of policies without any effective understanding or oversight by the populace. The potential to “seize” the monopoly governmental power of compulsion – while always present when there is any government that retains the police power, and they all must – is all the more attractive when the costs can be sold as being borne by someone else (as you note) and the benefits can accrue to the “insiders”.

  30. Wow! I would so kill for that huge kitchen! All that storage space!!
    Oh, and a six-foot wide microwave!! Popcorn for a family of six in a jiffy!

  31. FYI-
    HOA Dues are slightly higher in the community because they include the usuals (water, garbage and building insurance) plus natural gas and heat.
    FYI-
    There are three BMR homes in the building.

  32. Heat included in the HOA… With global warming in mind, let’s hope the residents will be careful to keep their units on the cool side, and not excessively keep the windows open.

  33. “Oh, and a six-foot wide microwave!! Popcorn for a family of six in a jiffy!”
    That was funny.
    It *is* amazing how much deeper the kitchen can be made to look with the right effects. Kitchen is too shallow? No problem, just stretch the photo. If you cut the photo off at the middle of the fridge, the stretched scale won’t be noticeable, the cabinets will just look bigger and that will make people think there is “that huge kitchen! All that storage space!!”
    Between the two threads today, I’m beginning to wonder if a lot of real estate agents see the world as a giant pool of suckers.

  34. Love how they shove all the family sized units in the most family unfriendly neighborhoods. Tenderloin and 18th and Mission, in the words of Sarah Palin, you betcha!

  35. Unfortunately, this place looks even worse in real life than it does in this picture. However, it is a sensible development otherwise and maybe will be a step towards revitalizing that part of Mission.
    Is there new influx of Asians into the Mission? I note that the supermarket on the ground floor will be Asian and a new Asian seafood market opened up near 23rd and Mission. Is it just entreprenurial Asians setting up businesses or are more Asians moving into the neighborhood?

  36. I love the design, much more so than the Victorian architecture (or knock off architecture) and stucco fits into the Spanish/ Latino composition of the neighborhood perfectly. I wonder if the same people complaining about how it looks are the same ones complaining about all the vacant lots in the city?

  37. Do BMR units pay less HOA dues?
    Yes they do… which can lead to interesting conversations at the condo association meetings. I believe this article was discussed at some point on SS.
    “This is luxury housing, and my neighbors want certain amenities,” she shrugged. She said some of the other homeowners wanted to boost security from their current 12-hour doorman to a 24-hour doorman. Others were looking for earthquake insurance. In addition, she sometimes felt the culture clash more personally, as when one of the residents complained that her bicycle had left track marks over the designer carpet in the lobby. “But it’s the only way to get to the bike room,” she told me.

  38. “The potential to “seize” the monopoly governmental power of compulsion – while always present when there is any government that retains the police power, and they all must – is all the more attractive when the costs can be sold as being borne by someone else (as you note) and the benefits can accrue to the “insiders”.
    Dead on. LMRiM, the kitty of “in lieu fees” for the off site bmrs hasn’t been accounted for since they started shaking down developers for the trade off. One developer that I know kind of guessed it at200m. The public housing the City built on sixth st turned out to 600k a unit for 38 apartments. With the housing crash effecting the 6.5 b budget for the 800k sheeple that live in SF, how do you think it will affect local politics?

  39. The Asian Market (Vietnamese owned) has actually been there for years and years. It was a one story market before, the same market is coming back into the space. I thought that they were actually the developers, or at least an ownership interest, but the process took so long I’m not sure how it ended up.
    It’s actually amazing that they’ve been able to survive and come back. I’m not sure if they relocated in the interim, or had other markets elsewhere to rely on.
    As for Asians in the Mission, there has been a small but significant presence for many years, and there are several asian owned groceries restaurants and small shops in the neighborhood (as in virtually every SF neighborhood).

  40. The median family income in SF is about $68k.
    That means very few SF families can afford any
    of these condos. With a economy in contraction
    anyone who buys one of these would be foolish
    as he’s buying into a falling market.

  41. I’ve made this comment on other properties before. But why do developers have the “bright” idea to put pedestal or (in this case) wall-hung sinks in bathrooms in units like these? The 4 br unit will probably have five or more people living there! Don’t you think they might need someplace to store things in the bathroom? Toilet paper? Cleaning products? Toiletries?
    Attention developers: Pedestal sinks may look pretty, but they are totally impractical except perhaps in a powder room for visitors. I made the mistake once of buying a home with pedestal sinks. Never again!

  42. Why such miserable little windows – and just one – in most of the bedrooms? Why the little jog in the balconies? They would actually be useable if they were the wider dimension all the way across. Dining? Living? They’re just a big hallway. Where do you put anything? There’s no storage space. This is not a place for families. It’s not a place for anyone. The one redeeming feature is that there is actually a functional work triangle in the kitchen
    By the way, HUD estimates the median family income in SF County to be 94,300.00, a bit higher than mentioned above.
    http://tinyurl.com/9zhxhj
    Even so, these units are still not financially affordable for the typical family. They are even less affordable psychologically. Why do projects like this all have to be so dismal and inept?

  43. I can’t see a “hard working” family buying here amongst the filth and noise – that’s why they invented Daly City.

  44. The Wikipedia entry for SF says,
    “The San Francisco median household income is $57,833 and the median family income, at
    $67,809…” That’s the source of the figure I
    quoted.
    Go to Google maps where you can get street
    level photographs of Mission and 18th Street.
    One can see the early stage of construction at
    2200 Mission. One can also see the the immediate
    neighborhood, and I think it looks dreadful.
    I would not want to live there. Why pay all
    that money to live in a slum?

  45. Yeah, that’s my opinion too. It’s too expensive. So is all of SF. But I see that a correction appears to be under way to make the city more affordable…
    In terms of price/income the historical values are 3 or 4 for the US. A median income should theoretically get you 200K-270K. But “creative financing” (also known as “Milking the cow til it bleeds”) can push that to the 400s or a 6 ratio. Today, the ratio is still 10 which is too high even when accounting for shifts in demographics like for instance knowledge workers moving to town to avoid commutes, or the fact that most people under the median are likely to be renters.

  46. California has over a very long period displayed a different house to income ratio than the US has a whole.
    Download Shillers excellent
    “Is There a Bubble in the Housing Market?”
    http://www.wellesley.edu/Economics/case/PDFs/bubble.pdf
    Go to “Figure 2” on page 42 and you can see a graph of historical housing price to per capita income ratios for the period from 1985 to 2003. As you can see, the lowest it ever was during that period was 6 and the highest was 8.6. And this was all before the recent run-up in prices.
    Another way of looking at the data is here:
    http://www.housingtracker.net/affordability/california/san-francisco
    This looks at a different kind of income, “median family” and also shows that SF has never had price/income of 4, at least not as far as this data set goes, which is 1997. The lowest ratio is in Q1 1997, which was near the bottom of the last real estate cycle and at that point, home price/family income ratios were 4.6. They have risen more or less steadily to the last point in the series, where they were 8.9 in Q3 2007.
    Are you referring to family or per capita income SFS? Also, are you predicting that SF (and presumably California) ratios will fall to match the rest of the country?

  47. I was hoping that the Asian market went out of business long ago when construction stopped on this property. Back when it was open, this was literally, and this is really saying something… the stinkiest corner in the Mission (smelled of rotten fish and socks). PHEWWW, at least the returning stink will match the architecture.

  48. 2200 Mission Street #201 has closed escrow with a reported contract price of $435,000 (13% under original asking) while #402 has closed escrow with a reported contract price of $420,000 (6% under original asking).

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