The list price for 2412 Harrison #106 was last reduced (for the third time) in June. It’s currently listed for $799,000 ($80,000 (9.1%) under its original list price in April). And it’s currently advertising “NAME THE PRICE! Bring ANY Offer!”
If you do, let us know what happens (and if it’s accepted, don’t forget those invitations to the loft warming). And regardless, do keep in mind that this condo last changed hands almost two years ago (November 2005). And at the time it sold for $820,000.
∙ Listing: 2412 Harrison Street #106 (2/3) – $799,000 [MLS] [Monica Pauli]
Looks (from PropertyShark) like the owner is mortgaged to the hilt and needs to get out. Bought more than she can afford. My guess is with a teaser loan that is about to reset. The shape of things to come.
This is not a bad place, but this is certainly not on my top 10 (or 20, or 30) list of favorite neighborhoods.
The owner is not quite mortgaged to the hilt. She put down 10% ($82k). $650k first and $88k second mortgages (both variable rate) makes a total mortgage of $738k, which means that the owner is losing her own money at this point, not the banks.
If she sells for $800k, 5% realtors fee is $40k leaving her $760k to pay the bank. That is a $60k loss in two years without considering carrying costs (which are surely higher than the cost to rent an equivalent apartment).
A $60k loss on a $82k down payment is a 77.5% loss – Ouch.
Kernel boy, you’re right that she is losing her own money and not the banks, but that assumes she can get ~ $780k for the place (780k – 39k fee – 738k mortgage). She might get that, but it looks doubtful. You also assume she has no home equity line of credit at all. Might be the case, but she would be a rarity in this town. Regardless, in the best case she’s looking to lose pretty close to 100% of her down payment. Leverage is great when prices rise, but it bites hard in a downturn (note the near panic in the mortgage markets right now). We are going to see many, many more such desperate sellers, and with far fewer buyers willing or able to jump in with tightening lending standards, you’ve got a deflating bubble.
I like this place. Does this look staged to anyone else? Isn’t that an inordinate amount of pillows in the living room for a real person in the mission?
Inner Mission, name the price. Bring any offer. Hmmmmm. How about $399,000?
Oh, I forgot: it’s the HOT Inner Mission: $349,000 then.
LOL
I’m hardly a cheerleader for the market but I’m also an advocate of common sense. Even if she loses 100% of her down payment all that means is she was paying $2k a month for a nice 2 bedroom loft with parking. That’s below market for my neighborhood and makes this somewhat short of a tragedy. On the other hand I dont have time to look up HOA. Combine a higher HOA with a lower then expected sale price (say $720k – after all it is Harrison complete with Carnaval right outside your bedroom window once a year) and you will have a truly tragic outcome. Get used to more stories like this folks…
Checking other apartments in this building for recent sales on Zillow there is a price range of $680,000 (#209, 12/06) to $735,000 (#212, 6/07). Both of these are higher in the building – less street noise and more privacy? Assuming these are all the same layout/size then $799,000 is a real stretch. Does anyone know if these units are all the same layout?
Missionite –
The mortgage totals $738,000. Using a 40 year amortization at 1.5% you get a $2k/month payment. More realistic is 5.5% for 30 years which gives you $4.2k/month. This is before HOA dues of $429/month and taxes of $543/month (propertyshark) – a total cost of ~$5172 per month!
I agree that if she had only lost the down payment that would not have been too harsh, but 18 months at $5100 is another $91.8k for a total cost of $173.8k. Was this apartment really worth nearly $10k a month?
“I agree that if she had only lost the down payment that would not have been too harsh, but 18 months at $5100 is another $91.8k for a total cost of $173.8k. Was this apartment really worth nearly $10k a month?”
And the other good news is that one cannot tax deduct real estate losses – as opposed to say capital losses in the stock market.
I don’t know about you guys, but $450 psf sounds pretty damn good to me. I don’t think this thing can get much lower… there are lots of vultures out there (like me!).
doh! Completely forgot about the mortgage payments… $10k a month is a tragedy! paging King Lear!
Missionite, As far as being more expensive than the other units, I was told that it’s one of only two in the building with this floor plan. Most units don’t have the lowest floor, which means one less bathroom, and several hundred square feet. Additionally, the bottom floor has an entrance from the street, which is nice if you’re looking for a live/work situation. The entrance is only shared with one other unit (the other large unit in the building, right next door).
Say it with me everyone: location, location, location! Why is it that these types of properties in this location do poorly, and condos and SFHs in the northern part of SF with little to no new construction and supply continue to go up? Location.
I think it’s a shame is many ways that this place was even built
For many reasons developers can’t or won’t develop housing for families even on a place like Harrison in the Mission
I am no MAC supporter as I think they are counterproductive and delusional but I wish we could come up with incentives such as a streamlined approval process, density bonuses etc. for those willing to build things more family appropriate in areas such as this
Why does everyone assume the owner is a “she”? Perhaps its on public record.
Its tragic that all this information is public record and so easily accessible. But it is great information for buyers and I suspect that this person is in some financial trouble. Best of luck and no schadenfreude here. As much as I think the market is going to correct (and should correct), or at least certain properties with over leveraged owners will experience the correction first hand, its no fun to watch a real person lose a real $100k.
E
I viewed this property a few months ago. Fairly nice floor plan, upgrades etc., but the bottom level is partly below street level. When you look out the windows, you’re looking at the shoes of people walking by.
Also discovered there was litigation on the building over some water leakage issues. Not surprising – we could really feel/smell the damp on the ground floor.
I too saw the building and heard of the pending litigation.
However, this unit did not have a leak. The problem was with the units on the back on the building, and it was an issue with the flashing on the roof. I didn’t notice a damp smell, but I did go on a fairly hot day.
From what I understand, it is hard(er) to get a lender to lend on a building with pending litigation. Is that true? If so, could that be a reason that its sitting on the market?
That is true about many lenders not wanting to lend on buildings with pending litigation. However, with a decent down payment there are lenders that will not have a problem with the litigation. Should not be a deal killer.
“I wish we could come up with incentives such as a streamlined approval process, density bonuses etc. for those willing to build things more family appropriate in areas such as this…”
The City repealed the live-work law that encouraged the building of lofts like this one on light industrial (PDR) land — so newer buildings are being built as convential condos rather than as lofts. However, now all new market rate housing construction on PDR land is under a building moratorium, due to the 2660 Harrison decision by the Board of Supervisors.
The loss will be a bit more when you add in the obligatory 2 years of HOA fees ($12K) and the buyer’s closing costs. A couple of appliances thrown in and maybe another 12K off the purchase price and the “rent” for this place was something closer to $12,500.
If I was paying that for this place, I’d want out too. But my experience with “Bring any offer!” messages is that the realtor wants to show their client that they can produce an offer, any offer, so that they don’t lose the listing, but that the client rarely accepts “any offer” that isn’t near the asking price. If they were really willing to do accept a significantly offer, they’d drop the asking price by $100K and take what comes.
So anyone who writes up an offer much lower than the asking price will be helping the Realtor gain some credibility in front of the seller, but otherwise will be wasting their time.
I am the listing agent and I am dealing directly with the lender right now. There is a huge opportunity for a buyer to steal this! It will be in forclosure shortly so if anyone can wait a 60-90 day close of escrow out, here is your chance. The owner is not a “she”, it happens to be a very nice man who paid too much for the property when he bought it. If anyone is interested in viewing this property, please call me at 415-902-9502.
“…condos and SFHs in the northern part of SF with little to no new construction and supply continue to go up?”
Yeah, that condo at 2760 Sac in the heart of Pacific Heights is up 1% a year over the past two years!
[Tipster] wrote:
“…..If I was paying that for this place, I’d want out too. But my experience with “Bring any offer!” messages is that the realtor wants to show their client that they can produce an offer, any offer, so that they don’t lose the listing, but that the client rarely accepts “any offer” that isn’t near the asking price.”
I don’t think you have to worry about the realtor losing the listing……..what you should worry about is the seller, as he will be going to foreclosure soon and just needs an offer.
The lenders that will lend on 2412 Harrison are Wells Fargo & Bank of America. These banks have closed two units in the building in the past 6 months during the litigation. The building is being repaired and paid for by the developers insurance company. The lawyers represeting 2412 Harrison are on a contingency basis. Again, any questions, please call me directly at 415-902-9502.
Whoa, I question the ethics of a seller’s agent making public solicitations for a lowball bid and spilling that her principal is in desperate straits. I understand that if the bank forecloses, you don’t get any commission, but you’re setting yourself up for a lawsuit from your client.
Ugh, I smell a short sale coming. Truly a sh*tty position to be in if you’re a seller. Two years ago I tried to buy a condo in foreclosure and the buyer didn’t accept my offer because he didn’t want a short sale (and his agent didn’t encourage him to take it because he wouldn’t get any commission — true fact, he admitted this to me). In the end, the property went on the block on the courthouse steps. But since I couldn’t purchase it in cash, someone else got it. The seller lost everything and ruined his credit.
If “the market” set the price for this property at $820K two years ago then hasn’t “the market” determined that values have fallen since then if it isn’t selling for $799K today?
And I hate to ask, but was the seller represented by a realtor when he “paid too much” in 2005?
Remember when you (the buyer) purchase a property ,the seller has “Disclosures”. The disclosure package consists of everything I have just written on this blog: property is in foreclosure stage, building has pending litigation. There is nothing the seller could sue me or file a lawsuit on. The buyer would know all of this information upfront after reviewing everything before submitting an offer.The bank does pay commission.
anon: 2:58 – what’s wrong with monica coming on here soliciting offers. Props to her; its her job. The agent bashing is getting out of hand here. Can’t expect a post with 25+ comments to not go unnoticed.
Michael – 3:23 Same sale comps are without a doubt the best indication of market trends. Recent comps in the bldg suggest a much bleaker outcome for this poor soul.
Monica – best of luck to your client. Why is there a 60-90 day escrow period?
Soliciting offers is fine, even expected. Telling the world that your client paid too much for the place, and that you have a chance to “steal” it from him, is not in the principle’s best interest.
Thank you for your post. I appreciate your support. We have to submit a “short sale” package with the offer to the lender. The lender must review and then send to their attorneys to review. This unit #106,is a much larger floorplan than the last two units that sold. This has over 1750 sq feet, has 3 levels with street entrance, additional bathroom (3 baths),2 car parking.The other units that have sold were 2 levels without the lower level but they did have an outdoor patio.
Note: the seller is not a decision maker anymore, the bank owns the property now. The buyer that gets this loft will get it for a total bargain price! Hurry!
I’m hardly one to go about defending realtors, but really, too much hoo-haw over nothing, in my opinion.
So the realtor said the client paid too much. Of course he did – it’s looking to be worth less than he paid, and he can’t afford it. She is just stating the obvious, hardly divulging improper detail.
As for “steal”. That word is commonly used as an alternative to “bargain”….
Of course given the current market some of us bubble believers might debate whether there are any “steals” around, but that’s a different matter entirely.
Monica is doing the seller a great service by trying to actually sell the unit before his credit is ruined for the next 7 years. However that is accomplished is in the seller’s “best interest”.
This actually looks like a good value is out there for someone who looking for a large place in this area.
“This actually looks like a good value is out there for someone who looking for a large place in this area.”
$799,000 for a two bedroom in the Inner Mission. Good value. Get a grip! It will be a lot cheaper soon.
If I ever find myself in a similar situation, I hope I’m lucky enough to have someone like Ms. Pauli fighting for me in what must be an unpleasant time for the current owner.
Her comments have been on-point
(no bragging about CEO’s in the building) and honest, with only minimal cheer leading, and I’ve even learned a thing or two about this process!
[disclosure: no known conflicts]
M, Thanks for the response. Best of luck, although the sharks are circling this one.
I for one don’t know the value of the places down there, but I think that people have a mis-conception that you can buy a place in foreclosure with ease. As someone above posted, you have to have impeccable finances and be able to navigate complex foreclosure proceedings to pick up a deal. It can be worth it but its not for the uninnitaited from what I’ve researched…. So if you think that this place is worth $650k it sounds like its worth making an offer. NO one WANTS to go to foreclosure, as the process rarely yields the best outcome for anyone other than the buyer who will probably sell it for a quick market gain.
[disclosure: no conflicts]
eddy
Hi Monica,
If, as you say, the owner is no longer in charge then shouldn’t the listing mention “Short sale. Subject to lender approval?”
In the “agent remarks” on MLS it says exactly that.
I’ll take your word for it. It’s not in the public remarks and I assume there’s some super-secret “agent remarks” section that I, as a lowly peon, do not get to see.
And now for the obligatory weekly cage rattling:
What!!???? Short sales!!!???? In SF????
How can this be? Shouldn’t there be an eager line of google billionares/european bargain hunters/panamanian drug lords/downsizing boomers/wall street bonus fellas with wheel barrows full of money waiting to get into a bidding war for this gem?
Don’t forget about all the Parisians who want to buy a “second home” here to enjoy our museums, opera and cuisine :).
On a serious note, how does one get to view the “agent remarks”? (Or as mentioned by Diemos, you can’t view agent remarks if you are just “general public”?)
I’ll take your word for it. It’s not in the public remarks and I assume there’s some super-secret “agent remarks” section that I, as a lowly peon, do not get to see.
I clicked on the link Socketsite provided, which takes you to the MLS which sez, “This is a Short Sale subject to lender approval.”
“Agent remarks” are for agents information to tell their clients and not for marketing remarks.
The MLS has rules on what you can put in the marketing remarks.(I explained the seller situation in agent remarks) I did just update the marketing remarks for all viewers and put the “short sale” info out to everyone now.
Thanks for clarifying that. Socketsite is an endless education.
Ugh, where the begin…
First off, the Inner Mission happens to have the least fog and wind than almost any neighborhood in the entire city – including Mission Bay, Rincon, etc. That’s not just Realtor(TM) bullsh@t. It’s also great for transportation via car, bike, or public transit. The area has some of the best restaurants and bars in the city (without having to get in a scary cab all the way from the Marina), and it’s got a great family-artist-worker kind of vibe. It’s not Pac Heights, but I would prefer to be there any day of the week.
Second, I sold my loft in the same neighborhood last year. It was also under litigation for water intrustion (also not leaking in my unit). Same situation as the Beacon, the Watermark, and many others. It’s practically a rite of passage for new constructon, and it’s almost always a money-grab by the property manager and attorneys at the ultimate expense of the naive homeowners and their association. Most settle with the developer’s insurer along with a release from ANY future claims.
Third, many comments here are thoroughly dispicable. This site used to have informed and fairly obective commentary from the readership. Lately, the level of discourse is more on par with TMZ coverage of Britney’s Vegas trip. I love good-natured mocking of realtor pricing and marketing as much as anyone (perhaps more so), but this guy has lost a fair amount of money. That’s really not funny to me, even if he did pay too much. Hindsight is always 20/20, and unless you’ve also lost that kind of money, then please…shut the f@ck up and be thankful for your situation.
That’s all. Thanks.
CuriousSort – May I ask why you sold your loft in the Mission?
As my friend and I say when we realize that we’re being mean and nasty – “Well, thank God we’re perfect.”
curioussort:
I agree with your sentiment. Shadenfreude is not my cup of tea either.
I have empathy for the homeowners in trouble right now. . I have a few friends in Bankruptcy due to overextending themselves, believing that real estate can’t do down in value. It’s hard watching the effect not only on them, but their entire families.
One of the reasons I post here is so that prospective buyers go in with their eyes wide open. Nothing wrong with buying a home, just know what you’re doing!
It’s sad this gentleman must lose 100k or whatever. Necessary, but sad nonetheless.
—
That said, I must question the pricing of homes/condos in the Mission.
I recently walked from my friend’s condo at 18th and S. Van Ness (near the Whiz Burger) to the BART station 3-4 blocks away up Mission at 445 am on a Wednesday. I have never in my life been scared anywhere in SF (I grew up in the Tenderloin), but I was nervous and walked down the MIDDLE of the street (not the sidewalk) due to all the drugs, prostitutes, and dangerous people inhabiting the doorways of buildings.
ex-SF-er, I was wondering when the neighborhood was going to factor into the discussion?
CuriousSort – You’re saying that victims of the lenders and REALTORS are the only one’s with enough credibility to comment on these deals. Those are the last people I want to hear from, they are mostly clueless. I want to hear from the insiders who got these sheeple to slaughter.
The real damage happened to this homeborrower back in November 2005 when the banks took his down payment and everyone got paid. Buying a house is said to be the biggest financial transaction in an americans life, how could so many do so badly. What was missing was FUD, americans lost all Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt about these deals courtesy of the irrational exuberance artificially created by the FED/wallsteet/NAR.
Without a decade of creative financing artificially inflating the whole market this home would be worth much less (maybe half).
Lets consider what would you pay to rent this place? Thats what it’s worth. I don’t see anyone paying more than $3000 including HOA a month to rent this place.
Sorry, I tried to resist but I was too weak. Just one more cage rattling for this topic:
but, but, but, I was told that all SF homeowners were rich sophisticated financiers who could easily afford to put 20% down and get a fixed loan. They got a 100%, stated income liar loan, neg-am teaser rate, 2/28 ARM because of the fantastic arbitrage opportunity that allowed them to keep cash free for investing in mongolian yak futures.
It sounds like this guy is broke, otherwise the bank wouldn’t be considering a short sale. Luckily, this is the only guy in SF who purchased a home in the past 5 years he couldn’t really afford with a loan that he had no hope of paying back out of his income. Luckily because, with the refi window closed, the wave after wave after wave of resets that are coming would force these homeowners to sell, or throw the keys on the roof, walk away and let the bank sell.
If I remember my Econ101 correctly, forced sales combined with collapsing demand leads to … lower prices.
http://www.nsopr.gov/ for 94110
http://www.sfgov.org/site/police_index.asp?id=20031
http://www.sfgov.org/site/police_index.asp?id=23813
See for yourself all the crime data in that area, if I am looking for a peaceful life, I will go to somewhere else, if you are a street worrier type person, is a “steal” for you.
Property in the “Jungle of the City” — Juck property. Good luck.
The borrower might not be the only one “stealing” this listing. This home is smack dab in the middle of a zone identified in a “civil injunctions against criminal street gangs that have long terrorized residents in two of San Francisco’s most violence-prone neighborhoods.”
“Herrera’s proposed safety zone covers an area north of Cesar Chavez Street, between Valencia Street and Potrero Avenue. Police estimate there have been more than 59 assaults — 55 of them involving weapons — in which Norteños have either been involved or suspected within the proposed zone since 2005.”
The Mission-based Norteño gang, which is described in Herrera’s complaint as “a nationally recognized violent criminal street gang with a substantial presence in Northern California and San Francisco,” is believed by law enforcement experts to engage in criminal activities that include homicides, drug sales, assaults, robberies, shootings, stabbings, and graffiti.
“Mission area youths face perhaps even greater brutality when victimized by adult members of the notorious Norteño gang, according to police declarations. The tragic drive-by shooting last month that claimed the life of 15-year-old Edivaldo Sanchez — who was not a gang member but merely standing outside his family’s apartment on 24th Street — is believed by police to have been an unintended consequence of a gang-related turf battle. In March of this year, another Norteño-related shooting at Treat and 25th Streets left a juvenile girl paralyzed from the waist down. In May 2005, a 14-year-old boy was beaten and robbed of his shoes by Norteño members in an afternoon attack corner of 26th and Capp Streets. An adult Norteño member and parolee identified in the injunction case was observed by police in two separate incidents since November 2005 attacking on younger, smaller juveniles — none of whom would cooperate with police out of apparent fear of gang-related reprisals.
Gang-related threats to seniors, immigrants, and women
Children and youth are not alone as favorite gang targets, according to police reports and testimony provided to the court today; seniors, immigrants, and women are similarly vulnerable to gang-related intimidation, exploitation and violence.
“Many of the robberies that occur in the Proposed Safety Zone are not reported because the victims are too afraid of retaliatory action by the Norteño gang,” observed Officer Mario Molina in a sworn expert declaration supporting the gang injunction in the Mission District. Molina went on to note that “many of the victims are recent immigrants who are monolingual Spanish speakers and reluctant to come forward.” One particularly savage attack cited in court documents was by a Norteño member, who in June 2004 assaulted a pregnant tourist visiting from Los Angeles at the corner of 22nd and Alabama Streets. The Norteño attacker landed a blow to the pregnant victim’s head with an aluminum baseball bat.”
Alleged gang members designated for service from the Norteño criminal street gang are: Jose Amador, Noel Arguello, Ernesto Arroyo, Ana Bahena, Hector Barrera, Juan Barrera, Antonio Buitrago, Victor Cano, Kevin Chavez, Joshua Deleon, Rocky Deleon, Samuel Dueñas, Joseph Fuimano, Antonio Garcia, Hector Garcia, Daniel Gonzalez, Jesus Guerrero, Henry Hernandez, Elvis Martinez, Carlos Morales, Antonio Napolean, Bizmark Ocampo, Alex Reyes, Ruben Reynoso-Jimenez, Salvador Rodriguez, Alfred Sanchez, Michael Sanchez, Miguel Sanchez, Daniel Santiago, Anthony Urbina, Omar Varela and William Whitebone.”
http://www.fogcityjournal.com/news_in_brief/herrera_gang_injunctions_070712.shtml
Ex SF-er: “I recently walked from my friend’s condo at 18th and S. Van Ness (near the Whiz Burger) to the BART station 3-4 blocks away up Mission at 445 am on a Wednesday. I have never in my life been scared anywhere in SF…”
I spend a lot of time in the Mission, but I have to say that I wouldn’t walk from 18th and Van Ness to the 16th and Mission BART station between 2am and sunrise.
This condo is on Harrison St, which is quite different from 16th and Mission. And there is 2 car parking.
There is gang activity, of course, in the Mission, but there have been a series of robberies in the Marina lately, too.
Crime happens everywhere, not just in the mission.
http://sfist.com/2007/07/26/attacks_in_the.php
This is a pretty dangerous neighborhood and IMHO this is still overpriced. I would personally be willing to pay $550,000 for this . I think i might send in an offer. i actually like the place, but would need to hire private security in the area.
These lofts have become less and less popular in this city as they rarely exist in good neighborhoods. Too bad because they actually can create very integrated and dynamic living experiences for people who don’t mind the stairs and prefer the openness. Another great example to demonstrate the importance of location. The lofts at 200Brannan around this sq.ft are still selling close to $1.5mil, often quickly if priced fairly. I think this unit is fair game slightly below $800k, but now everyone knows the seller is distressed, you can probably push for $750k. It is still quite big, and has 2 pkgs.
The Mission really varies block by block, but Harrison St. is not a particularly sketchy part of the Mission. Much of the housing along Harrison St are fairly new condos, and this loft is only a block or two from Blowfish Sushi and the new condos at Bryant Commons.
People who can’t tell the difference between 16th and Mission, 22nd and Valencia, and 20th and Harrison don’t know the Mission very well. Like in Hayes Valley and SOMA, precise location matters.
“There is gang activity, of course, in the Mission, but there have been a series of robberies in the Marina lately, too.”
Ah, now I understand why it’s in the HOT Inner Mission.
Except for Presidio Terrace (do they still have a private security guard or did he go away when Diane Feinstein moved to the Lyon Street steps?) I do not think anywhere in this city is truly safe at the moment. In Cow Hollow there have been more daylight break-ins and street assaults in the last couple of months than I can remember in 15 years. (Same in the Marina)
I hope we are kept posted on what this unit actually sells for as I think this is a good indication of where we are in this market at the moment. It also re-confirms my decisions to only buy properties north of California Street.
“People who can’t tell the difference between 16th and Mission, 22nd and Valencia, and 20th and Harrison don’t know the Mission very well. Like in Hayes Valley and SOMA, precise location matters.”
Please… my wonderful journey started on 18th and South Van Ness.. a mere 3 blocks from the above listed condo. I think “I know the mission” just fine
It isn’t a stretch to imagine a person living at 2412 harrison to find themselves on 18th/19th and Mission. In fact, I’ll bet they’re OFTEN on 18th and Mission, the site of my distress.
I lived in Inner Sunset for YEARS, and never saw anything like what I saw along Mission. Ever.
I simply do not want to pay primo prices for an area that is unsafe, even if it is a couple of blocks away.
What, the drug dealers can’t stumble a few blocks over to Harrison? is there some sort of forcefield.
That entire area (yes including Harrison) is sketchy at best. During the day it has developed some good restaraunts and things to do. At night, it is unsafe. Plain and simple.
to pretend otherwise is fantasy. The only “precise location” that is safe around there is being locked inside your house.
I agree with CuriousSort – the level of the comments here has gone downhill – it’s all gotten very mean spirited – please just go read Patrick.net if you want doom and gloom – we’re trying to be a little more balanced around here. And please – no cut and paste of long articles in the comments section – a longer comment is not necessarily more meaningful.
Anyway, this is a huge property for the price – remember, this is in the same city where those high rise condos are selling for $1,000/SF. I bet we’re going to see this sold within the next few weeks especially in the short sale situation now. And yes the Mission has more sun (good) and more crime (bad) than a lot of other parts of the city, but really, if you want a completely sterilized living situation – move to suburbia – zero crime along with zero culture and personality.
Miles: thanks for the great realtor shtick. You rule!
“…a mere 3 blocks…”
And it’s only 3 blocks from the SROs at 6th and Mission to the St. Regis at 3rd and Mission.
No thanks. Not trying to be mean spirited. I’d rather buy in an area where there is less of a chance that I would be assaulted. Yes. Crime does happen everywhere, but I think there’s less of a chance it would happen in the Inner Sunset than the Mission.
“The Mission really varies block by block, but Harrison St. is not a particularly sketchy part of the Mission.”
Ya, right !! I was living in SF long enough to know which area is forbidden to go, walk or drive, day or night. Outter Mission, Inner Mission, Hunters Point, Cow Palace, Bayview, you name it. Those area are worst than the battlefield in Iran, only no car bombing, but same as living in hell.
People living in those area want to leave in all method, people who bought properity there either too new to the city or a flipper.
Investment 101, “LOCATION” is rule #1 – avoid to load junk property no matter the market is upturn or downturn.
Good luck.
“Miles at July 28, 2007 10:13 PM
And yes the Mission has more sun (good) and more crime (bad) than a lot of other parts of the city, but really, if you want a completely sterilized living situation – move to suburbia – zero crime along with zero culture and personality.”
The culture and personality that you mean is those 8×10 iron gate on the entry of each house, ugry iron bar-ed windows, and Gang related Graffiti on each corner of the walls.
Use Google Street view for that area and see for yourself, you will find what you mean of your lovely culture … especailly the corner of 20th street and Harrison.
Good luck for your clients.
“especailly the corner of 20th street and Harrison.”
Point to the S.E. Corner, the little store with a green/white walls, big banner “Mazatlan Restauran”, kinda very interesting picture to me that will never see it in Marina.
“it’s all gotten very mean spirited”
I agree much of it is getting a little over heated.
However, if you note:
most of the heated arguments occur based on the asking prices of homes in “bad” locations: rincon hill, parts of SOMA, Mission.
rarely do we see as much heated debate about expensive properties in Sea Cliff or Inner sunset or Duboce Triangle or Pacific Heights or Noe valley, as example.
Part of that is of course because there isn’t as much construction in those areas, and also less inventory for sale.
But part of it is that we can imagine someone paying those prices for that area. I can imagine that SOMEONE would want to pay big $$$ to live in Noe Valley (my brother-in-law rents there as example, he’s one of the fabled google millionaires).
So even though I might not shell out $1.8 million for a TIC in Noe Valley, I can imagine that somebody would.
But I simply cannot imagine shelling out that kind of cash ($500k and up) to lock myself into the Mission. I can see renting there when you’re young… of course! But buying and living? Raising kids? Having my wife walk around there by herself? Having _me_ walk around there by myself? No way.
To pull a Realtor mantra: “location, location, location”
And I personally appreciate it when the Realtors/RE agents post as well… it adds diversity to the comments… we just have to remember that it’s their JOBS to be optimistic about a property, and their JOBS to get the highest price for it. Nothing wrong with that! No reason to get upset with them!
Peace 🙂
I agree with some of the other posters in that I don’t have much pity for this buyer. Thanks to him, we now have sky rocket prices on real estate. Let him have his foreclosure and ruin his credit history. That way he won’t be able to leverage debt and make risky purchases. Pure economics.
ex SF-er, we see too much optimism from the buyers agents. The financial transaction is structured so that the buyers agent is motivated to have the buyer pay the most they can for a property.
Buyers need better advocates/financial advisers in light of the lopsided negotiation framework and constant marketing.
I made a mistake in my last post I should have said debtors instead of buyers.
This is a nice building, inside at least. I looked at a similar unit with a friend two years ago, and it was really nice — 2.5 bedrooms (well, .5 was an “alcove”) — the layout/architecture was not as boring as a lot of the smaller “botique” lofts you see around.
I ended up living on 6th street, where I got to meet the recent bail-outs as they migrated from the hall of justice to market st.
Now I live in the sunset, where the dangers are folks not stopping at red lights on 19th ave and home owners doing DIY asbestos abatement.
The market factors in location, of course. You can’t get a fairly new 1768 square foot loft condo with 2 car parking and 3 baths for under $800,000 in Noe Valley, Pacific Heights, or in South Beach.
I spend a lot of time in the Mission and would not be scared to live there. So if I had $750-800,000 to spend, and had to choose between 800 square feet in a more expensive neighborhood and and 1768 square feet in the Mission, I would choose the latter. And I would appreciate that personal preferences differ, because otherwise I wouldn’t have this choice.
I am friends with a female couple raising a child in a condo a block from this location, and have another friend, a single woman with a child, who lives in a condo a couple blocks away–so obviously others disagree.
Two years ago this unit generated a bidding war, today it can’t even get a bid. In those two years nothing has changed in the character of the neighborhood, the layout of the unit, the amenities of the city, the economic strength of the area. The only thing that has changed is that two years ago anyone with a pulse could get a loan for any amount of money they wanted. Today credit is tightening. You actually have to qualify and have a job and downpayment.
And credit standards are not tightening just in sacramento, and tracy, and the mission. They are tightening everywhere. Less desirable areas are just the canary in the coal mine.
People, just check out the MLS and prices for new construction. This price is not way out of line for any part of the Mission. The bottom line is that there are virtually no 2BR 2BA condos with parking in the entire City for less than 700K, so the comments about the property being worth 500-600K are absurd. Someone will buy this place for 700K or more- though that’s a big loss for the bank and the seller.
“Posted by: anono at July 29, 2007 1:55 PM”
“This price is not way out of line for any part of the Mission. The bottom line is that there are virtually no 2BR 2BA condos with parking in the entire City for less than 700K, so the comments about the property being worth 500-600K are absurd. ”
I recommend you to review the whole pic. back to day one, and understand why the whole crazy bubble started.
Stock bubble brusted in Yr.2000, to save the Bush’s Admin., Greenspan lower the interest rate and avoided using the term BUBBLE, Price soaked and greedy agents, brokers make money from fool, who bought in the story “Real Estate never come down, limited land to build, immgrants keep coming in, all myths ….” and financally put themselves in danger.
Now sub-prime blown, credit tightened, foreign investment withdrawn their money, US dollars weaken, oil price soaked, inflation unavoidable, depression around the corner. Time for a big price correction is on its way, why rush in ?? I don’t see any good news for Real Estate, but more ARM schedule to be reset on coming next 6 months. why rush in ? 450k for a 2BR 2BA condos with parking in Mission is on the sight. I forsee that there will be at least 30% price drop in next 12 months.
My recommendation to all the buyers, be patient and wait until the whole bloodbath die down, when the Demand/Supply done it’s work, our life is back to normal, everybody happy.
Greedy people will deserve what they have done.
See the whole picture and educate yourself.
Monica – good luck on this sale, I do hope you see some money for what is probably a lot of work to sell.
My only thought is – if the seller “paid too much” to buy this loft, than why is the sale price only $21k less than he bought it for? In SF that’s chump-change. Over-paying at this scale seems to me to be $100k-$200! When you yourself admit that $820k was “too much”, how can you convince the next buyer to pay $799k? That seems to me to be just propagating the same ill-fated purchase to the next sucker. Honestly, I look at this condo and see something in the $500k range, especially based on location (which had the highest homicides in the city according to last years police report, or at least a friend looking to buy in the neighborhood told me). A little perspective too – I lived in an almost identical 3-level loft in Oakland/Emeryville (similar not great neighborhood), only one bath but could easily have had a second or third, an ACTUAL loft building (old laundry facility with awesome character)and facing a beautiful courtyard. I rented it for $900/month. It sold in 2001-2 for $300k.
I would be interested in knowing what this place sold for originally and what that would translate into with NORMAL appreciation for the last few years. I do think we need to start looking at r.e. with those values to know what something is really “worth” these days, verse an inflated price based on speculation and easy money.
Well… A bunch of units sold in this building back in 2003. Someone said that comments about 2br/2ba units going for $500-600k were absurd. Well, what do you think these sold for in 2003? It’s all public information and it wasn’t even close to $800k.
“A little perspective too – I lived in an almost identical 3-level loft in Oakland/Emeryville (similar not great neighborhood), only one bath but could easily have had a second or third, an ACTUAL loft building (old laundry facility with awesome character)and facing a beautiful courtyard. I rented it for $900/month. It sold in 2001-2 for $300k.”
A similar loft of this size are selling for $650k-$950k in Emeryville/Oakland, to name a few new developments: Glashaus, Blue Star Corner, Artisan Walk which is sold out. And they have been selling faster than many new developments in San francisco. A 470 sq.ft junior 1bd at the Andante Bay (imo a horrible 2 yr old project) in what I call Emery-land would sell quickly for $330k, and easily renting out for $1350.
No points in particular, just more data.
“I look at this condo and see something in the $500k range, especially based on location (which had the highest homicides in the city according to last years police report, or at least a friend looking to buy in the neighborhood told me)”
I believe that Bayview Hunter’s Point had the most homicides of any neighborhood last year.
I rented a loft at 19th & Harrison in 2000. The owner had just purchased it for a little over 300k for about 1800 sq ft if I remember correctly.
I can’t imagine paying the kind of prices being asked today to live in this neighborhood. It is fine at the right price point, but it definitely is near some streets you wouldn’t want to be walking around on after dark.
blahh, you liar. All of the Glashaus units are under $700k no matter what the size. Loop 22, Liquid Sugar road are filled with condos for sale at sub-600 prices. I know because I work down the street.
Get your facts straight before posting such gibberish.
it’s tuff this world of ours. it’s like i understand the realtors gotta make a living. and i know they do work hard for the money. and sometimes they gotta stretch the truth a little. a little so much that they start believing what they say. and this poor guy is gonna lose some hard earned money too. man. 800k for a ground floor loft. what a mistake. hey who’s perfect? and the gang guys down the block with the violence and the broken homes and the poverty. i gotta say they have it tough. real tough. what’s the answer? just a lot of heartache all around. why? ah maybe we should have like guaranteed housing for every citizen. like no more war machine/ take that money and put it into health care and housing. but people say that’s not the way it works here. they’re probably right, i know they’re right. it just seems a damned shame we gotta live like this sometimes.
“blahh, you liar. All of the Glashaus units are under $700k no matter what the size. Loop 22, Liquid Sugar road are filled with condos for sale at sub-600 prices. I know because I work down the street.
Get your facts straight before posting such gibberish.”
Oakland,
Please read my message again,
“A similar loft of this size are selling for $650k-$950k in Emeryville/Oakland, to name a few new developments: Glashaus, Blue Star Corner, Artisan Walk which is sold out.”
I never said Glashaus’ pricing went above $700k. The $650k-$950k range is for all three projects I listed (Glashaus, Artisan Walk, B.S.C). Glashaus’ pricing goes from $550-$700k with sizes from 1060-1300 sq.ft, which is not a good comparison for this unit on Harrison because they are much smaller (450-700 sq.ft difference). I included Glashaus’ pricing because I thought it would make a comparison as far as location is concerned. Artisan Walk, suffering from similar location disadvantage, comes closer on sizes from 1550-1630 sq.ft. Their prices ranged from 620k-780k. Again, terrible location imo with slightly smaller sq.ft than 2412 Harrison. Blue Star Corner has larger units around 1700 sq.ft. Last time I checked a couple of them sold at almost 1 million with multiple offers very recently. This project has more interesting characters, but I wouldn’t say its location is much better than 2412 Harrison.
Calm down, you almost sound angry.
Out of curiosity, why hasn’t this property gone to auction yet? Will it go on the block if it doesn’t generate an offer within a specified period of time?
Property closed at $800,000 on 10/31/07. Was a short sale and WAMU paid 5% commission.