CFAH

410 Jessie #602
The 2,018 square foot Hales Warehouse (410 Jessie Street) loft #602 has just returned to the market listed for $1,550,000. Purchased for $1,600,000 in July 2007, three months later the 2,018 square foot unit a floor below (410 Jessie #502) sold for $1,400,000.
410 Jessie #502 Floor Plan
As plugged-in readers know, 410 Jessie #502 recently resold for $1,300,000. And if a plugged-in tipster is correct, there’s roughly $1,450,000 owed on #602 which might help explain the seller’s pricing versus the market’s recent comp.
∙ Listing: 410 Jessie #602 (2/2) 2,018 sqft – $1,550,000 [MLS]
From Warehouse To Gallery To Upscale Comp At 410 Jessie [SocketSite]

Comments from Plugged-In Readers

  1. Posted by eddy

    Maybe I’m a hypocrite with some of the information I post on here, but I don’t see the point of this post including the sellers outstanding loan balance relative to the list price. There are a lot of factors that go into pricing a home and I can assure you that every single home / property is unique, even in a condo / loft building. Street noise, proximity to elevator, view, etc. Even the tipster source is disclaimed as “And if a plugged-in tipster is correct”. I could care less if someone with millions / billions takes a bath on a real estate investment and its called out. But what’s the point of calling it out here. Schadenfreude. The facts related to the comps list price / sale price are fine, although no one bothered to mention here that the #502 was listed at $1.35.

  2. Posted by Paul Hwang

    eddy,
    I would tend to agree.
    You forgot to mention the forthcoming disparaging opinions on homelessness and levity concerning the unpleasant odors of human bodily fluids.
    That being said, although I am a proponent of “east of 2nd”, I have always thought this was an interesting location. I wish they would hurry up and turn the mint into a museum already, or something.
    Paul

  3. Posted by tipster

    eddy,
    A few questions for you.
    1. What would be the difference in proximity to the elevator between 502 and 602 that would justify the price difference?
    2. What would be the difference in street noise between 502 and 602 that would justify the price difference?
    3. 502 shows a view. 602 does not. I suspect that the view is not that great from either unit, though whatever is there is certainly a little better in 602.
    You are right in that there could be differences (what you did not point out is the top floor premium of not having to hear neighbors above you, but there is a 1003 listed, so I doubt this unit has it, finishes look identical, ceiling heights are identical), but what appears to be more likely is that the guy who bought 602 was the last sucker of the 2007 buyers. The guy who bought 502 drove a harder bargain. The market price is now what it is. Trying to hold out for hundreds of thousands of dollars more because that’s what you paid is foolish.
    The lesson to be learned here is don’t just pay what is asked, or you are likely to lose a lot of money. Don’t let your emotions run away from you. And if you can’t get 602 to come down, a 502 will come along for a quarter of a million dollars less. As a famous poster was fond of saying: that’s a lot of scratch.

  4. Posted by WH

    Why is the agent the principal for Martin Building?
    And does HOA seem high to anyone else?

  5. Posted by warehouse

    Due to the slightly higher elevation, #602 catches a southern view over the Old Mint that is missing in #502.

  6. Posted by mikey woodz

    Such a crap hood, nobody with a brain is going to pay 768/sq ft. for this bachelor pad.

  7. Posted by scurvy

    @mikey woodz, it is a bad area and not one I’d invest my money in. Rent at a cheap price for a few years of fun as a single man? Sure. Pay 7 figures in this area to buy? No way.
    That said, there is probably going to be some “Square money” rolling around the area in the next 2-3 years. Square is in the SF Chron building right there. Like other companies affiliated with Mr. Dorsey, they’re going to cash out early employees even if Square doesn’t go public or make much of a splash. Cashing out early employees in later rounds of funding is Web 2.0’s equivalent of shell companies going public in 1999. So yeah, there will be a lot of new, dumb money rolling around that might want to live near work (that’s the case with Facebook and Zynga).
    Also, Jack Dorsey lives in Mint Plaza, so new, dumb money who (foolishly) looks up to him might do so as well.

  8. Posted by mikey woodz

    @Scurvy,
    completely agree there will be dumb young money floating around, but even so theres so many options in SOMA I think anyone would have a trouble justifying this one, Its the type of area where you’d never want to hang outside your house. A much better idea to rent int his area IMO. If you have 1.5m to drop on a 2 bedroom bachelor pad, you can afford a cab to work!
    Anyways Im a single guy in my young thirties and I bought a building over in NOPA and have no regrets and can still get downtown pretty quickly

  9. Posted by Sunnyvale Steve

    Slightly off topic but does anyone know about this type of floor? I have cement under the so-so wood floor in my loft. I’ve been tempted to rip out the wood and have the cement refinished. Once these polished cement floors are in place how’s the maintenance?

  10. Posted by Michael E

    The HOA and leased parking fee sure add up!

  11. Posted by scurvy

    @mikey woodz, you’re probably not falling into the dumb money column. However, for everyone one of you, there are 3-4 new tech, dumb money buyers who want to live in “something new”, “ooooh a loft!”, and where “long term” means 2 years. These are the 20 somethings that have never really had to want for anything. They buy all the new Apple products every year. They like the idea of walking to work, not a “quick commute.” They think that living in a gritty urban environment somehow makes them cooler.
    These are the people at places like Square and Twitter. These are the people willing to pay so much to live in a surrounding craphole.

  12. Posted by eddy

    @Tipster, regarding your first point, the elevator only hits your floor when someone goes to your floor. Whereas the person on the 1st floor hears the wheesh/whoosh of the elevator every single time. I’m too lazy to answer the second question and you already know the answers. The third point was answered and 1 floor of height makes a huge difference when you clear another building for a view, which seems to be the case here.
    But, of course, you missed the whole point of the icky nature of dragging out the sellers loan balance and floating it out for public debate. There were plenty of facts to support this post without that data point. It takes a special person to find pleasure in another persons misfortune. And another to put it out there in the first place.
    Cheers.

  13. Posted by redseca2

    Our San Francisco architecture office has been located across the alley from this building for decades, long before the condo conversion.
    Many of the Martin Building condo units have large windows in the bathrooms (the same windows seen in the pictures of the unit for sale).
    What was amazing was how in some of the units no one bothered put up window coverings, and how quickly you become so jaded you didn’t bother to even look.

  14. Posted by Po Hill Jeff

    FWIW I think the comment on the seller’s outstanding balance is indeed relevant, as it points to yet another psychological factor affecting list prices. These factors often get in the way of setting rational prices. In this case, it provides a potential explanation for why the seller is pricing above comps…

  15. Posted by scurvy

    @redseca2, I think you meant to type, “so unattracted” or “so turned off”

  16. Posted by tc_sf

    “Maybe I’m a hypocrite with some of the information I post on here,”
    You hit the nail on the head here.
    When a house goes for $5M and you posit about how many tens millions the person must have and thus all this wealth washing around that attempts to show one side of the coin. Illustrating purchases mostly supported by debt shows the other.
    ” It takes a special person to find pleasure in another persons misfortune.”
    What’s past is past, the key issue is allowing people to be well informed so as to avoid misfortune in the future.

  17. Posted by A.T.

    Liens are publicly-filed documents. There is nothing unseemly about publicly reporting public information. The existence and amount of a lien may or may not have any bearing on the owner’s financial circumstances – lots of people take loans even though they do not need to do so (I’ve taken student loans, mortgages, and lots of loans via credit card in lieu of paying by cash/check). But it certainly is a relevant point of discussion on the unit’s apparently above-market pricing.

  18. Posted by eddy

    I never said it wasn’t relevant. Tasteless, perhaps would be a better word.
    Generally, I have no problem with using every bit of information to get the best possible deal on any transaction. I just don’t see the point in posting that here somewhat randomly. There may very well be a reason this was priced higher. The source of this information (via a tipster?) is also dubiously referred to here as well, making it all the more suspect.
    Even a $5.7m condo shell get’s a snarky ‘below minimum’ jab round these parts. That is an outstanding result, btw. $2200/psf for an unfinished condo!?!? Do you have any idea how many millions you would have to have to buy this place!? Oh, wait, that’s right, I’m the hypocrite. Nevermind.

  19. Posted by sf condo agent

    Here’s another comp for you: Jack Dorsey got a condo on the 10th floor, with private staircase to a rooftop deck, and he only paid $925k for it in 2009. True, his place is 800 sf smaller than 602, although it does have the outdoor space and a much better, unobstructed, view.

  20. Posted by 94123 Native

    To ask a stupid question, how did the builder get away with no windows in the bedrooms?
    Am I the only one who finds those bedroom frost glass walls creep? Imagine the lack of privacy when you had guests…

  21. Posted by tipster

    eddy,
    The ongoing decline of SF real estate has you too much on the defensive.
    The editor does a good job of educating us on the happenings of the real estate market that would be lost in the roar of industry insiders and other interested parties. Yes, a trophy property went for a trophy price. Trust me, every realtor for miles around has called their clients and let them know (“Hi Joe, its Benedict Slimey, your realtor, I realize you are in the market for a 0/1 for $200K in the Tenderloin, but I just had to tell you that a shell just sold for…”). What those same people cheerleaders will rarely tell you is that there was a so called minimum and they accepted less than that. So the editor does that. That’s helpful information. It’s not like any of us don’t understand the message and the messengers here.
    Your brand of “information” is shoved in all of our faces by a hundred interested parties. Our honest education is the furthest thing from any of their minds.
    So we get the other side here. Is it possible that someone has priced a property not at what they think it may sell for, but for what their loan balance is, and thus when reviewing properties on the MLS (or better Redfin or Trulia), it might be a good idea to look at sold values not asking prices to get an idea of a market price? Apparently it is. Nothin wrong with mentioning that from time to time. And nothin wrong with making sure people understand what questions to ask, or to whom you should ask them (hint – not Benedict Slimey, especially after he just made that cheerleading phone call to let you know whose side he’s really on, because he’s trying desperately to tell you it isn’t yours).
    You can protest all you want, you can even try to go to that old well, Schadenfreude, but what comes through loud and clear is “Editor: shut up. Stop telling people these things, because the market is already tough enough without your educating them to be skeptical of the one-sided BS information we feed them!”

  22. Posted by eddy

    Public information is public and we’ve all used it to our advantage. Fine. No argument here. But I disagree that posting that information here in this post is providing anyone with valuable information. The comps tell the story here just fine. Highlighting this persons ‘rumored’ loan balance is just plain Schadenfreude and without a proper source who knows if its even accurate. Asking prices are derived using many different methods and are largely meaningless other than giving a starting point of negotiations. Final sold comps are really all that matter. But, again, everyone seems to be missing the point that it’s just icky to post this up. But I guess that’s why TMZ ranks so high.

  23. Posted by embarcadero

    Sorry Eddy.
    By this time, I think we’re all accustomed to seller pricing being conditioned on factors that have little to do with the value of the property.
    In this instance, the editors are simply illustrating how pricing works in practice, and how impervious sellers appear to be from the realities of the market.
    The only people upset here are you and Paul Hwang. Think about it.

  24. Posted by eddy

    Again, you are missing the point. I’ll stop now trying to make it.

  25. Posted by dantheman

    Perfectly agree with eddy here.
    1. Starting off by saying “And if a plugged-in tipster is correct, there’s roughly $1,450,000 owed” does not sound very assuring. If something has not been confirmed with hard facts then what credibility does it have to support an argument??????
    2. SINCE WHEN the fuc-k did people not pay more for a unit above???? OH, I bought my unit right below the penthouse for X, oh wait maybe I can buy the one above for X too. This just fuc-king in!

  26. Posted by disagree

    I’m an occasional reader here and I have generally liked some of eddy’s comments in the past. I don’t read enough to know if eddy is a broker or not, but his posts are frequently much more balanced than some of the people here who are obviously brokers.
    But, I really disagree with Eddy in this one instance. If it’s accurate info, then I appreciate having more background on what’s going on. And, as a non-real estate industry individual, I appreciate what socketsite does . It’s hardly TMZ. It seems like socketsite generally gets their facts straight and there is an open forum of plugged in people to tell the editor when something is incorrect.
    I have zero schadenfreude at other people’s distress. But the fact that there are a reasonable number of people over their skis is very relevant info- and price paid or loan outstanding plays into this. Personally I know people in this situation who are uncomfortable from home or condo purchases over the last, say– eight or nine years. I do think SF is different though because these people might be uncomfortable– but are still employed and not in any danger of not being able to pay their mortgages. That said, I think a lot of them would love to get a real bounce in the r/e market to get out of their current situations.
    Also– the NAR and industry controls so much misinformation and spin– it is absolutely great to have more information out there on the web. Geez if you’re going to complain about this post, take an objective look at how the r/e industry has tried to control “information.”

  27. Posted by Eddy

    Not affiliated with real estate in any capacity and my opinion on the public outting of names and personal financial information, especially for those already suffering hardship, is purely my opinion. I’ve no issue with opposing views and am happy when proven wrong as it only serves to further expand my base of information. This issue comes up every few months and for reasons unknown I find it hard to not state my opinion. It’s really just that I can’t believe I’m the only one that feels this way. Well, me and Paul that is, which is apparently a bad thing. Cheers!

  28. Posted by Armand Der-Hacobian

    Hi everyone,
    1. Why are the HOA fees so high?
    2. Is the Parking on site at a leased fee of $300 (and if so why such an arrangement) or off site?
    Thank you.
    Armand
    Incidentally, I love everything about Socket Site. Best SF Real Estate Blog there is.

  29. Posted by formerly%whatever

    Only some units have parking on-site. The $300 monthly is for 5th & Mission garage.

  30. Posted by MM2

    Like the other article about the residential units being built at Market & 7th, these seem like pipe dreams. Our company is paying off 2 years on an office lease rather than stay in a neighborhood where assaults on employees are so frequent we had to hire a police escort service just so people can go in and out of the building, across the alley into their cars or down the block to the Powell Street station. (Of course, once at the station, we’re on our own dealing with the many crazy people and the filth.)
    Last month one of our board members walked out of the building entrance on Market as a shooting/murder took place right in front of him! We’ve seen all sorts of violent crime from our top floor windows. Yet somehow, people are advocating that his area will rise and become livable. That won’t happen until there’s a huge sweep of the halfway houses, the rehab centers, and the drug dealers who prey on the homeless.
    Perhaps the techies who bought the building and developers of other properties will pay extra for security and mental illness or anti-poverty programs, but I doubt it.

  31. Posted by SocketSite

    The listing for 410 Jessie #602 has been withdrawn from the MLS without a reported sale having been listed at $1,550,000 for a month.
    Once again and as plugged-in readers were well aware, the unit directly below recently resold for $1,300,000.

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