A plugged-in reader with a deposit at The Hayes (55 Page) takes a hard had tour and reports 60% of the 128 condos “sold” (i.e., in contract with a deposit):

I did a hard hat walkthrough at 55 Page this week, as I have a deposit down on a unit at The Hayes. The complex is 60% sold. I was very impressed. It is going to be a stunning building, and they are not scrimping on the materials or the quality (and that’s not from marketing – I talked to several of the guys actually working on the building.) They have maximized light and view potential everywhere they could. I met several of the people who will be living in the building, and we all agreed we felt very much we had bought the right place at the right time. Not only will it be a really nice place to live, but I do not doubt it will be a good investment over the next 10-15 years.

At sixty percent sold, that’s around 40 net new contracts over the past seven months (and another 50 or so to go).
The Hayes (55 Page): A Plugged In Buyer’s Facts (And Opinion) [SocketSite]

Comments from Plugged-In Readers

  1. Posted by anon

    does the 60% include the BMRs? are all of those gone?

  2. Posted by Frank C

    It WILL be a great place to live. The traffic noise and fumes of that quiet intersection will disappear in a haze of joy over the granite countertops and high end wallboard.
    Of course it will be a great investment. SF prices never go down (89 to 96 never happened, it was an illusion) and we’re certainly not overvalued now.

  3. Posted by anon

    Whatever. Anyone who bought a house in Mill Valley or many other places in the BA for $500k in 89-96 now has a house worth a couple million.
    Much to the chagrin of many readers here, many units are still getting sold and deals are still closing. Just goes to show that while some people may think a building, neighborhood, or market is bad, a ton of people strongly disagree.
    A few signs of reaching/passing the low point are already coming to surface, at least in the more desirable areas. I’m betting on a strong pickup in sales and median prices in SF in Oct & Nov. Anyone else think that August 2007 is the low point for sales?

  4. Posted by missionite

    reaching/passing the low point? We haven’t even gotten to the point where some bulls will acknowledge any softening at all and now all of the sudden we are at the bottom? That was the shortest market downturn ever. Did it last two weeks even?
    Sadly, no. We have a long way to go. Long. Think 2012.

  5. Posted by anon

    traffic can get a busy on gough, and i’m not a fan of the electric poles right in front of the building, but it does seem like a promising area in general.

  6. Posted by anon

    traffic can get a busy on gough, and i’m not a fan of the electric poles right in front of the building, but it does seem like a promising area in general.

  7. Posted by Melinda

    Wow, the buyer thinks they bought the right time. How surprising and news worthy.

  8. Posted by amused

    Wow, a renter is bitter and caustic. How surprising and newsworthy (it’s one word).

  9. Posted by Frank C

    Anon, so you have a great argument. It goes like this: anyone who had a property in 89-96 and still has it today made money. Therefore, they can’t lose money, and the value can’t go down.
    Great argument. Riiight, we’re at “the bottom.” I have a couple of bridges I’d like to sell you. Email me, will you?
    Actually, I like this building and the location. But it does have some major drawbacks, as I sarcastically mentioned above.

  10. Posted by amused

    Frank –
    New in these parts? Your post plays like “SocketSite’s Greatest Hits, 2006 – 2007”.
    Your two posts are as common as fixed gear bikes and skinny jeans in the Mission.

  11. Posted by Melinda

    Are you a real estate agent? You seem pretty determined to comment to all who might disagree with the buyer in questions.
    I’m actually not bitter. I could afford to buy tomorrow but I have such a sweetheart deal in renting it’s just not fiscally prudent today.
    I was pointing out that *of course* a new buyer is going to think they bought at the right time, if they didn’t think it was the right time, they wouldn’t have bought. And as such that opinion isn’t newsworthy or or value added, to me, from SocketSite.
    And Thanks for the spelling tip.

  12. Posted by amused

    Not a real estate agent.
    But I am equal opportunity in making caustic comments about both ridiculous market cheerleaders (who are less visible nowadays) as well as those who are negative about everything.
    About me:
    Yes, I own a home.
    No, I don’t know its present worth.
    No, I don’t really care.

  13. Posted by Gdog

    As I see it, here are some pluses and minuses about The Hayes.
    . Location. Besides being walking distance to Hayes Valley, Church/Market and 16th/Valencia, The Hayes is a block from the Van Ness Muni and a reasonable walk to BART. No MUNI transfers needed to go most places in SF. Hailing a cab is possible to do on the fly.
    . The Market Octavia Plan. Future development should be less lame than SoBe/Misison Bay. There will be a lot of infill in coming years which should keep the local businesses thriving and keep the chain stores out. However, it’ll be a disaster if Prop H passes because that trumps The Plan’s (IMHO) already too-high parking allowances and there is still time for the land use board to screw up the plan before it’s adopted.
    . Supposedly the number of owners that rent out their units is limited to 20%.
    . Interesting floor plans.
    . A bit pricey considering the finishes.
    . Would be nice if it was in a quieter location, but most of the available Market/Octavia parcels are on busy streets. A HEPA filter is probably a good investment (as in most parts of SF). On interior units the traffic noise is fairly low at rush hour.
    . Leased parking (currently) priced way below market rate. Owners should be able to lease out their spot if they don’t have a car, and owners should enjoy appreciation of their spot of they want to purchase parking.
    . No natural gas. Personally I much prefer cooking on a flat top stove, but not having the gas option could affect resale.

  14. Posted by anon

    those on the gough side are more likely to encounter that noise. page is ok. rose should be somewhat quiet. the side facing the stables should also be quiet.
    i wonder if they installed those “special windows” like ORH.

  15. Posted by Frank C

    Amused, hey, funny, I thought your posts were weak.
    If you truly didn’t care, you wouldn’t post here.
    Honestly, do you think that *you* added anything new with your posts? I certainly don’t. I thought we’re glibly having fun here. Because I don’t think i’ve ever seen true insight on these threads.
    I get insight from economistsview and calculated risk. I don’t do the hipster thing, either, btw.

  16. Posted by anon

    i like your rundown of the pros and cons of this place.
    i did some research and it seems as if the finishes are pretty OK (not incredibly high end, but ok):
    “Many units at The Hayes feature large bay windows and private decks. All kitchens include cabinetry from Studio Becker, large stainless steel sink with Hansgrohe Interaktiv retractable sprayer faucet, stainless steel appliances from Whirlpool, and sleek bamboo flooring. Bathrooms include Marfil Matte tile, Titan silver bathroom cabinets, granite countertops, and a bold designer sink and toilet by Philippe Starck for Duravit.”

  17. Posted by Frank C

    I have to add this, “Amused”.
    You say you don’t know what your home is worth. That is comical; you’d be the only homeowner on either coast who doesn’t. I suppose you’re trying to say that you’re above materialism. Yet again, you haunt this real estate blog.
    Also, you seem to think that I’m “negative” and therefore worthy of your purportedly clever asides.
    Actually, I’m enjoying a light day at work. I am an employed adult, and make a decent living. I’m from NY, no stranger to mad real estate. I am quite the optimist, even in these dire times. But sometimes mass hysteria takes place in life, like re: Iraq and terrorism post 9-11, and the real estate bubble. That’s my interest in these issues. What is your interest? Being “caustic” to strangers (not their stated views, but specifically to them as people, because that makes you feel good?

  18. Posted by curmudgeon

    I continue to be depressed about the ugly ugly overhead wires along the page street frontage. And note (again) that they don’t exist in the developer’s renderings of the building (of course).

  19. Posted by missionbayres

    “. No natural gas. Personally I much prefer cooking on a flat top stove, but not having the gas option could affect resale.”
    Is that true? Even for the 1 bedroom and larger units? I know that studios aren’t allowed gas stoves, but what was the justification for not putting in gas stoves at the Hayes?
    Personally think it could hurt resales a little…

  20. Posted by AnonN

    “. No natural gas. Personally I much prefer cooking on a flat top stove, but not having the gas option could affect resale.”
    “Personally think it could hurt resales a little…”
    Please get over the “cooking with gas” insistence. In a climate change challenged world there is no way you can justify cooking with anything other than a convection oven or a microwave. A gas or electric cooktop is archaic cooking technology.
    Besides, when big one comes you might be very glad you don’t have a gas appliance in your living space.

  21. Posted by amused

    Frank –
    Have you tried decaf?
    I come here to look at properties from a design perspective. Sometimes I check out threads that cover macro (and micro) economic issues. But mostly I come here to see listings that veer to the modern end of the continuum.
    As for knowing what my home’s worth… afraid I’m going to have to disagree with your police work on this one. I know what I paid for it. I have a range in which I think it might sell for today. But no one — not you, not anyone, *knows* what their home is worth until they sell it.
    As for whether or not I think you’re negative, please read the following:
    “It WILL be a great place to live. The traffic noise and fumes of that quiet intersection will disappear in a haze of joy over the granite countertops and high end wallboard.
    Of course it will be a great investment. SF prices never go down (89 to 96 never happened, it was an illusion) and we’re certainly not overvalued now.”
    Thanks for finding me “haunting”, though. It feels kind of cool. Glad you make a decent living. We should hang out.

  22. Posted by Ebayj

    Thought I would put a bow on this, since I am the buyer in question in the top section. Clearly it was a slow Friday – but building interest is building interest.
    anon – I do not know if all the BMRs have been sold. You could call the sales office to inquire.
    Frank C – sarcasm (and the fact that you do have a sense of humor) noted – and I was amused – it will definitely have Gough traffic. My home faces Gough – it’s a tradeoff for the light and the view aesthetic for me. The noise impact was definitely lessened from about the fourth floor on up. We walked through every floor.
    anon – The builder is actively working with PG&E to take the Page Street power poles underground. It will probably take years but he is making the effort. In terms of the view lines on the lower floors (and I looked) it was not that offensive.
    I don’t know whether the market is at the bottom. One learns in economics that it is very difficult to time markets. What I do know is that I wanted to move back to the city, and this was the project I was the most impressed with, and it is obvious the entire mid-Market corridor has positive changes coming in the next five to ten years from my livability standpoint. Gdog makes many good points.
    The location cannot be beat for my needs. As to the price, I believe I will get what I paid for. There may be little appreciation for a few years, but as I recall SF is not adding any land.
    They have done an outstanding job on the window soundproofing. We were there between 4pm and 5pm and Gough traffic was solid on the street. With Gough side windows closed the noise was really minimized. A lot of folks like gas, but I would never want it in an earthquake risk area like SF.
    And yes SocketSite editors will be invited to my housewarming or the building warming 😉 I expect first move ins to happen in March 2008 at earliest.

  23. Posted by anon

    ebayj, if you don’t mind me asking, what floor did you buy on? i called the sales office and they were quoting me january 08 as the move-in date.

  24. Posted by anon

    AnonN, I can’t believe anyone thinks that cooking with gas is bad for the air. Where do you think electricity comes from, genius? A coal-burning power plant. Ever been to China? The US is about 10 billion times more environmentally conscious. Feel free to wake up from your delusion anytime.
    I’ve cooked with both gas and electric, and gas is far superior. It would be very difficult to go back. I’m sure 99% of chefs would agree.

  25. Posted by anon

    FWOW, California’s electricity plants are fueled almost entirely by hydro(water), natural gas, or nuclear energy. Just a negligible smattering of other fuels, such as coal, wind, sun, geothermal, etc.

  26. Posted by Ebayj

    anon at 10:34 AM – I bought on the fourth floor. I don’t know that I would hang my hat on January as a move in date – maybe for a select handful of first move in units. They will be scheduling move ins by floors. I think they’re making the best estimate they can, but it really is an educated guess. The most finished units I saw were still all drywall – no finish paint, no carpet, no flooring, no plumbed appliances, etc. Upside is they are completed enough not to have to really worry about winter rains delaying their progress.

  27. Posted by anon

    thanks for the info ebayj. i guess the lower floors might move in first? also, you say the undergrounding of the lines may take years? i guess units with a direct view of the poles are in for an unpleasant surprise.

  28. Posted by Ebayj

    I believe 3rd floor will be first move in floor, and moving on upward from there. 2nd may be later for some reason. The other exciting news is that there will be several new restaurants and/or a grocery store (Whole Foods or Real Foods please, pretty please 😉 in the ground floor retail. That all keeps dues low and makes ordering takeout easy. Ha.

  29. Posted by AnonN

    “AnonN, I can’t believe anyone thinks that cooking with gas is bad for the air. Where do you think electricity comes from, genius? A coal-burning power plant.”
    “FWOW, California’s electricity plants are fueled almost entirely by hydro(water), natural gas, or nuclear energy. Just a negligible smattering of other fuels, such as coal, wind, sun, geothermal, etc.”
    anon, thanks for the props. Actually, the electric generation mix right now is about 2% coal and declining. It’s 49% natural gas and the utilities are required to obtain 20% of their mix from renewables by the end of this decade. So electricity is getting greener all the time.
    Prior anon, I’m certainly no genius but cooking with natural gas is a poor choice from an environmental standpoint when you can leverage microwave and/or convection technology using a fraction of the source BTUs, saving energy, money, reducing carbon emissions, and not consuming oxygen you might otherwise breathe.

  30. Posted by anon

    The BMRs at the Hayes are not units for sale. They are for rent. I hope buyers factored in how that may affect the value of the purchase and how the renters may contribute to common area costs which the owners have to supply via HOA. Not sure if the BMR renters will have extra HOA fees tact on.
    If I remember the unit renderings correctly the majority of the BMR units are on the lower floors and that is probably why the second floor has a later availability date than the third floor. The team wants the owners to move in before the BMR renters, I suppose?

  31. Posted by diemos

    “The BMRs at the Hayes are not units for sale.”
    Could someone plugged in on the legal side render an opinion if renting out BMR units conforms to the spirit and letter of the applicable codes? It seems like that goes against at least the spirit of what BMR is trying to achieve.

  32. Posted by chuck

    What do you think of the Ocatavia blvd off ramp, 1 block away? I kind of hate it, compared to the old Fell street offramp. I cross it on bike enroute to cal-train, and it sucks. I cruise it in the subaru quite often, and sucks. Slow comming from Oak, and slow going to Fell. In the morning commute it takes 10 minutes to navigate. Like the trees though.

  33. Posted by anon

    i’m not too sure of the BMRs just being for rent…i wonder if they are included in the “20% maximum” for rentals.
    i agree with diemos that renting them out seems to go against the spirit of BMR- i would think renting out BMR units would be left to the buildings that lease all the units.

  34. Posted by Trip

    I don’t know what the terms of the BMR agreement was between the developer and the city. But it could be that the agreement was for the developer/owner to rent them (rather than sell them) at regulated, below-market rates. That is how the Bridge Housing development at 1 Church works. I don’t think that violates the spirit of BMR. I can’t imagine that the BMR regulations would allow someone to buy at BMR prices and then rent it out at market rents.

  35. Posted by AnonN

    When I spoke with the sales office last year, the BMR units were for rent not for sale. Trip’s comment backs it up. Just make a call to the sales office.

  36. Posted by sunsetguy

    Per “not making any more land”. You are correct but they are building higher on the land we already have. “Land” that at one time could provide living space for 50 could one day provide space for 1,000. So no more land, correct. But does no more land limit the number of places that can be built to live in? Barring politics (which can’t really be done but for argument’s sake), there’s still plenty of “land” left to build on.
    BTW, I rent for 1/3-1/4 what mortgage would be on my house. Used to own in Sac, sold near top, invested proceeds in Gold and Oil stocks. Life is good =).

  37. Posted by Ebayj

    sunsetguy – sounds like your approach worked well for your needs. I believe mine will for me. Mid-Market is clearly on the way up, and in a strong fashion.
    chuck – Well, the Octavia ramp, like much of SF, represents years of discussion followed by a lot of compromise. But I’ve been here just under 20 years, and for me the Central Freeway was a lot uglier than what we have now. I think it will be more attractive once more housing is filled in along it. But yes, getting through it is a slog.

  38. Posted by anon

    oh no! renters in my building! that will drive prices down! how dare they let these commoners live in proximity to me, all mighty owner. renters will just crap all over the place since they have no “pride of ownership” – the common areas like the roofdeck and the gym will be torn completely to shreds by these people. they should pay double HOA fees.

  39. Posted by ebayj

    I’m gathering anon was trying to be ironic. I have no problem with BMR renters living in my building at 55 Page. Teachers and nurses and police and fire dept. employees deserve a nice place to live without having to commute three hours, and they are vital to our city services and quality of life. The HOA will be responsible to deal with anyone who gets way out of line. My current one certainly does. That’s why common interest associations have HOAs.

  40. Posted by movinggirl

    As a young, single woman moving from San Fernando Valley (L.A.), is this neighborhood ok? Any LA neighborhood comparisons so I can have a better grasp of the area? All I’ve seen of it is the Hayes Street area during the day, and it seems nice. I just wonder how it changes during nighttime and if the area around the condo is safe.

  41. Posted by Terrence

    My wife and I have a deposit on a studio here and our opinion is this is one of the best parts of San Francisco to live in terms of location based on all the places we looked. Everybody has their preferences but for us, the accessibility to transportation, the Opera/Symphony, and Hayes Valley were what set this apart. We also wanted to live in a new building but not a high-rise. The finishes were not bad. Did we overpay? We’ll see, but we purchased what we could afford and look forward to enjoying life in the city. We were looking or a home, not an investment property. We didn’t opt for parking so it will be a bummer to have to park on the street. We’re thinnking of just using public transportation or leasing a space.

  42. Posted by Ebayj

    Good for you Terrence. I don’t get all the hating on 55 Page. I’m excited to be living there next year.
    movinggirl – Hayes Valley/Deco Ghetto/Mid Market has come a LONG way in the nearly 20 years I have lived here. I think it has really come into its own as an exciting and interesting neighborhood, plus it is super central to transit and the freeway. Franklin and Gough have a lot of pedestrian traffic on the weekends, somewhat less during the week. A lot of people work in this area during the day (city government) and attend performances at the Opera/Ballet/Symphony in the evenings. I don’t really think you can compare anything in SF to LA. They are apples and oranges, in spite of people’s lame attempts to compare them.
    Keys to real estate success in SF in my book are:
    1. Transit, transit, transit, unless you live out in the fog belts – driving and parking in SF anywhere in the NE quarter of the city is a complete and total pain. This point cannot be overstated. If you have to drive to work make sure you buy someplace and work someplace with parking. BART is ten times the system Muni is, and Muni subway is better than dealing with the buses.
    2. There is a condo building boom in SF now. Take your time and really shop around – explore neighborhoods for yourself. I would say conditions may be most optimal for buyers in 2008. I bought at 55 Page in March 2007, as that is where I really wanted to live, but you will have great choices next year too, and interest rates are not going up anytime soon.
    3. Weather – if you need sun, consider South Beach and Dog Patch. The closer to Twin Peaks and west of Twin, the foggier and more overcast. On the other hand, views from Twin and Ashbury Heights are among the most stunning in the city.

  43. Posted by movinggirl

    thanks ebayj! i am continuing to check out the various neighborhoods and am liking this area more and more…

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